[00:00.000 --> 00:07.720]  The following use flash is brought to you by the Lone Star Lowdown, providing your jelly
[00:07.720 --> 00:10.360]  bulletins for the commodities market.
[00:10.360 --> 00:23.360]  Today in history, news updates and the inside scoop into the tides of the alternative.
[00:23.360 --> 00:29.760]  Markets for the 16th of September 2015 opened up with gold at $1,120.30 an ounce, silver
[00:29.760 --> 00:36.200]  at $14.94 an ounce, Texas crude at $44.59 a barrel, and Bitcoin is currently sitting
[00:36.200 --> 00:44.320]  at about 228 U.S. currency.
[00:44.320 --> 00:49.880]  Today in history, Sunday, September 16, 1810, Mexican Independence Day, El Grito de Dolores
[00:49.880 --> 00:54.600]  or the Cry of Dolores, which was uttered from the cathedral in the small town of Dolores
[00:54.600 --> 01:00.560]  near Guanajuato, Mexico, decried by Miguel Hidalgo y Castilla, a Roman Catholic priest
[01:00.560 --> 01:05.640]  took place around 6 a.m. as he ordered the church bells to be rung to gather his congregation.
[01:05.640 --> 01:07.960]  He addressed the people and encouraged them to revolt.
[01:07.960 --> 01:15.680]  El Grito was the declaration of the Mexican War of Independence.
[01:15.680 --> 01:20.560]  In recent news, the Federal Aviation Administration stated yesterday that it has set up no drone
[01:20.560 --> 01:26.560]  zones in Washington, D.C., New York, and Philadelphia for Pope Francis's papal visit from September
[01:26.560 --> 01:28.320]  22nd through the 27th.
[01:28.320 --> 01:32.360]  FAA Administrator Michael Huerta said in a note that if you plan to attend any of the
[01:32.360 --> 01:35.560]  papal visit events, please leave your drone at home.
[01:35.560 --> 01:39.840]  Anyone tempted to send their unmanned gadgets into the heavens during the banned period
[01:39.840 --> 01:47.560]  could face civil and criminal charges.
[01:47.560 --> 01:51.440]  A GoPro camera that was launched into space by students at Stanford University near the
[01:51.440 --> 01:55.960]  Grand Canyon in June of 2013, tethered to a high-altitude weather balloon to gather
[01:55.960 --> 02:01.160]  data for Brian Chan's aerospace engineering dissertation, was lost for nearly two years.
[02:01.160 --> 02:05.360]  An Arizona hiker who found the camera and phone back in March, who happened to be an
[02:05.360 --> 02:09.560]  AT&T employee, was able to identify the owner using the SIM card.
[02:09.560 --> 02:13.600]  Chan posted the video from the camera to YouTube last Thursday, and as of today, the video
[02:13.600 --> 02:21.160]  has more than three and a half million views.
[02:21.160 --> 02:24.800]  Police officers Michael McGovern and Cameron Beckham were working off-duty security at
[02:24.800 --> 02:30.560]  a construction site on understate 35 overnight and decided to grab a bite to eat at the Waterburger
[02:30.560 --> 02:33.080]  on Main Street in Louisville, Texas.
[02:33.080 --> 02:36.360]  That's when a guy behind the counter told them that they didn't serve police officers
[02:36.360 --> 02:37.360]  there.
[02:37.360 --> 02:40.040]  The two officers thought he was joking, but he didn't say anything else.
[02:40.040 --> 02:43.760]  They ended up leaving, went across the street to the Dairy Queen instead.
[02:43.760 --> 02:46.720]  However, they did go back to file a complaint.
[02:46.720 --> 02:50.080]  The employee who identified himself as a manager was fired.
[02:50.080 --> 03:11.120]  Waterburger has offered an official apology.
[04:20.080 --> 04:29.080]  Howdy, howdy, Radio Kelton, Blue Law Radio, the Bad Boys are back.
[04:29.080 --> 04:36.840]  This is Friday, September the 21st, 2015.
[04:36.840 --> 04:40.440]  And we have a very special guest today, Marshall Denny.
[04:40.440 --> 04:46.560]  Marshall Denny was the winner of one of our drawings, our gun giveaway, and he had an
[04:46.560 --> 04:50.120]  interesting case over a gun range.
[04:50.120 --> 04:55.720]  Marshall, you kind of bring us up to speed on where you're at at the moment.
[04:55.720 --> 04:56.720]  Sure.
[04:56.720 --> 05:03.200]  Well, a tiny bit of background on the cases, and I'll start with where we're at now very
[05:03.200 --> 05:09.280]  briefly, tell you about a little bit about the cases, and then talk about where we're
[05:09.280 --> 05:12.200]  at now, maybe get your input on some issues.
[05:12.200 --> 05:20.760]  So currently we are at the trial level in two different counties before two different
[05:20.760 --> 05:28.440]  judges, both of which they're attempting to permanently close the gun range, which is
[05:28.440 --> 05:29.760]  very odd situation.
[05:29.760 --> 05:35.360]  And because of some recent decisions, one of which at the appellate level and one at
[05:35.360 --> 05:42.920]  the Supreme Court of Washington denying a cert, we're actually at exactly the same moment
[05:42.920 --> 05:49.120]  in two different courts trying to close the gun range in two different cases, which certainly
[05:49.120 --> 05:52.160]  makes things very odd.
[05:52.160 --> 05:55.680]  The first case I'll call Kitsap 1, that's the one that started first.
[05:55.680 --> 05:59.960]  They wanted to permanently close the gun range as a nuisance.
[05:59.960 --> 06:07.160]  Well, this gun range has been in continuous operation at the same location for over 89
[06:07.160 --> 06:08.160]  years.
[06:08.160 --> 06:14.720]  So it's not like it's a recent development, and in fact is probably the most active shooting
[06:14.720 --> 06:24.160]  range in Western Washington and is well known in the area and in the region, in fact.
[06:24.160 --> 06:27.920]  So anyhow, they did originally get a closure order.
[06:27.920 --> 06:33.760]  The appeals court did not overturn the portion about us being a nuisance.
[06:33.760 --> 06:39.160]  They say, well, we are to some extent a nuisance, but the appeals court said that we couldn't
[06:39.160 --> 06:40.160]  be closed.
[06:40.160 --> 06:41.840]  That's not an appropriate remedy.
[06:41.840 --> 06:47.480]  They have grandfathered rights and then threw it all back to the trial court level to try
[06:47.480 --> 06:55.520]  again to generate some remedy, clearly having to be short of complete closure.
[06:55.520 --> 07:00.280]  And they must respect our grandfathered rights and develop something in between.
[07:00.280 --> 07:08.360]  Kitsap 2, the second case, is basically another attempt with another direction for them to
[07:08.360 --> 07:10.320]  close the gun range.
[07:10.320 --> 07:15.480]  They passed the local ordinance basically saying that they could regulate gun ranges
[07:15.480 --> 07:18.480]  and we had to apply for a permit.
[07:18.480 --> 07:22.260]  And our position is no, we're not going to apply for a permit.
[07:22.260 --> 07:23.640]  We have grandfathered rights.
[07:23.640 --> 07:28.520]  We have an appeals court ruling that says we have grandfathered rights and we need to
[07:28.520 --> 07:36.400]  be able to operate without it, without any sort of a license or a permit from them.
[07:36.400 --> 07:41.920]  And they said, oh, no, they went to court and we are currently closed by what we call
[07:41.920 --> 07:43.840]  Kitsap 2.
[07:43.840 --> 07:50.440]  And this one boils down to the fact that we have not submitted to being regulated without
[07:50.440 --> 07:51.440]  limit.
[07:51.440 --> 07:58.200]  We're not asking that we come into compliance with some specific state code or some specific
[07:58.200 --> 08:04.240]  ordinances in the county that come up to be certain standards for gun ranges.
[08:04.240 --> 08:11.040]  They want an administrative agency to be able to dictate without legislation specifically
[08:11.040 --> 08:17.500]  what we must do, what we can't do without legislation even at the county level being
[08:17.500 --> 08:18.500]  put on the books.
[08:18.500 --> 08:23.320]  They want a very high level of administrative regulation.
[08:23.320 --> 08:31.600]  And because we have not submitted to that, a judge at the local level has closed us indefinitely
[08:31.600 --> 08:37.560]  until we comply and apply for our permit and submit to regulation.
[08:37.560 --> 08:40.840]  So there's been several appellate situations going on.
[08:40.840 --> 08:43.920]  The first one I've already talked about where the appellate court threw it back and said,
[08:43.920 --> 08:45.120]  no, they have some rights here.
[08:45.120 --> 08:46.960]  You can't do that.
[08:46.960 --> 08:52.280]  We tried for an appeal basically along the same lines.
[08:52.280 --> 08:58.160]  And this was according to the appeals court, this was, well, first it was discretionary.
[08:58.160 --> 09:03.320]  So until we have a final decision in the state of Washington, even though you submit an interlocutory
[09:03.320 --> 09:08.520]  appeal, they can basically decline the rule on it because we don't have a final ruling
[09:08.520 --> 09:11.160]  from the local court yet.
[09:11.160 --> 09:17.200]  So they basically sidestepped all our issues and there was some due process issues, which
[09:17.200 --> 09:19.320]  we may talk about later on.
[09:19.320 --> 09:26.160]  But basically the appellate court threw it back to the trial court level and so we're
[09:26.160 --> 09:27.160]  back at the trial court.
[09:27.160 --> 09:30.080]  We have not started that case yet.
[09:30.080 --> 09:36.520]  There is a motion from the county for summary judgment because their position is, hey, we
[09:36.520 --> 09:37.520]  have a law.
[09:37.520 --> 09:38.560]  You're not submitting to the law.
[09:38.560 --> 09:41.220]  We don't need a trial of any kind.
[09:41.220 --> 09:43.320]  You can just have a summary judgment.
[09:43.320 --> 09:52.160]  And our position is we want a trial by jury to see if the county has authority to close
[09:52.160 --> 09:53.160]  us or not.
[09:53.160 --> 09:54.160]  We want to get it before a jury.
[09:54.160 --> 10:01.240]  We think if we can get this before a jury, considering the reputation of our range and
[10:01.240 --> 10:06.520]  the esteem in which we're held in the community, they're in deep trouble if we ever get to
[10:06.520 --> 10:07.520]  that point.
[10:07.520 --> 10:11.080]  So we're trying to avoid that as hard as they can go.
[10:11.080 --> 10:15.480]  So that's the general gist of where we're at at this point.
[10:15.480 --> 10:23.400]  We have several issues at hand, one of which is we submitted some discovery in Kitsap 1
[10:23.400 --> 10:31.320]  trying to get some more details from the county and we want to also get them into evidence.
[10:31.320 --> 10:38.640]  And so we have a motion before the judge in Kitsap 1 to reopen the evidence to get some
[10:38.640 --> 10:45.640]  specific sound readings that were taken by the county's expert, not by us, not by who
[10:45.640 --> 10:48.480]  we paid for, but the county's expert.
[10:48.480 --> 10:52.580]  And the sound levels were vastly lower than they expected.
[10:52.580 --> 10:55.040]  So they don't want that coming into court.
[10:55.040 --> 10:57.400]  And of course, we do want that coming into court.
[10:57.400 --> 11:05.560]  Plus we submitted some interrogatories to nail them down on exactly what they're asking
[11:05.560 --> 11:12.020]  the court to do in very specific terms and they didn't like those.
[11:12.020 --> 11:22.160]  So they submitted a motion to quash all discovery relative to Kitsap 1 without limit.
[11:22.160 --> 11:27.560]  We are not allowed to execute any form of discovery in the first case and the judge
[11:27.560 --> 11:28.680]  signed it.
[11:28.680 --> 11:32.240]  He quashed all discovery in a civil case.
[11:32.240 --> 11:34.200]  So I did want to get your opinion on that.
[11:34.200 --> 11:36.400]  Can a judge properly do that?
[11:36.400 --> 11:39.480]  And if he can, under what conditions can he do that?
[11:39.480 --> 11:48.600]  Okay, that is a little bit more specific and technical than I can address.
[11:48.600 --> 11:57.600]  I do have someone that may, that's Ken, he's my civil go-to guy, but there has to be some
[11:57.600 --> 12:06.280]  reason, some, the county, is this one with, this is the one with the county and not the
[12:06.280 --> 12:07.280]  city, right?
[12:07.280 --> 12:10.240]  Well, no, well, both of these are with the county.
[12:10.240 --> 12:14.920]  I'm speaking about what we call Kitsap 1, the earlier case.
[12:14.920 --> 12:22.760]  So is the county claiming that the, let me back up one step.
[12:22.760 --> 12:31.080]  The information you're trying to secure by discovery, would it be open to public records?
[12:31.080 --> 12:36.520]  Some of it would, some of it would not.
[12:36.520 --> 12:41.520]  Do you have someone who can make a request for that portion that's subject to public
[12:41.520 --> 12:46.880]  records and make it someone who's outside of the case?
[12:46.880 --> 12:53.000]  Once you get into a civil action, at least here in Texas, I suspect it's the same in
[12:53.000 --> 12:58.680]  Washington, the Open Records Act no longer applies.
[12:58.680 --> 13:04.400]  That they don't want this Open Records Act superseding discovery and the control of the
[13:04.400 --> 13:05.400]  judge.
[13:05.400 --> 13:08.880]  They want the judge to be able to screw you if he wants to.
[13:08.880 --> 13:13.960]  So the way we get around that is we have a third party make the request.
[13:13.960 --> 13:22.480]  And here's the reason, because about the only reason the judge could restrict discovery
[13:22.480 --> 13:31.400]  is to protect the party from the cost of producing whatever evidence that you're asking for.
[13:31.400 --> 13:33.480]  From the unnecessary burden.
[13:33.480 --> 13:38.160]  Yeah, none of the, they made no such claim at all.
[13:38.160 --> 13:51.040]  They will almost always suppress discovery when there is a, what do you call it, a motion
[13:51.040 --> 13:52.040]  that will dispose of the case.
[13:52.040 --> 13:56.680]  I want to say disposatory, but that's not the right word, I'll think of it in a second.
[13:56.680 --> 14:06.600]  But if they have a motion to dismiss or a motion for default judgment to dismiss, then
[14:06.600 --> 14:12.720]  they'll almost always suppress discovery until that motion is heard.
[14:12.720 --> 14:19.000]  Unless the discovery goes directly to the dismissal, like if they file a motion to dismiss
[14:19.000 --> 14:24.520]  or fail to state a claim, all discovery is going to stop because discovery would have
[14:24.520 --> 14:27.880]  nothing to do with whether or not you made the claim.
[14:27.880 --> 14:35.560]  Now, the discovery that you're asking for, how does it relate to anything that's before
[14:35.560 --> 14:36.840]  the court at the moment?
[14:36.840 --> 14:37.840]  Sure.
[14:37.840 --> 14:41.360]  Well, I'm going to give you just a couple of simple examples here.
[14:41.360 --> 14:45.560]  I mean, there's a list of interrogatories, but let's go over just a couple of them to
[14:45.560 --> 14:47.720]  give you a flavor of what we're looking for.
[14:47.720 --> 14:55.280]  But wait, before you go over those, what is the current condition of the case so that
[14:55.280 --> 15:01.280]  we understand how the discovery is relative to the, whatever is immediately before the
[15:01.280 --> 15:02.280]  court?
[15:02.280 --> 15:03.280]  Sure.
[15:03.280 --> 15:04.280]  Sure.
[15:04.280 --> 15:09.760]  Well, we're looking at Kitsap 1 right now, and it was remanded from the appellate court
[15:09.760 --> 15:15.320]  level that did not overrule some of the nuisance claims.
[15:15.320 --> 15:21.840]  But what they did overrule was the authority of the trial court to close the range as a
[15:21.840 --> 15:24.600]  remedy for the nuisance.
[15:24.600 --> 15:31.380]  And they additionally made clear that our grandfathered rights were still in effect.
[15:31.380 --> 15:39.480]  So they remanded to the trial court level to fashion another remedy to the perceived
[15:39.480 --> 15:40.480]  nuisance.
[15:40.480 --> 15:41.480]  Okay.
[15:41.480 --> 15:46.040]  Now, what is the nature of the discovery?
[15:46.040 --> 15:52.320]  Well, most, the vast majority of them are really acting because it's, of course, it's
[15:52.320 --> 15:59.020]  very broad ideas about, you know, remedying a nuisance is a very broad concept.
[15:59.020 --> 16:03.880]  And up to this point, they have not been very specific at all about what we need.
[16:03.880 --> 16:06.800]  What do they find excessive being very specific?
[16:06.800 --> 16:08.320]  So here's an example.
[16:08.320 --> 16:11.880]  We're about to go to break here.
[16:11.880 --> 16:18.560]  Let me come back from break where I'd like to start is, how does the state of Washington
[16:18.560 --> 16:23.720]  or the county define the term nuisance?
[16:23.720 --> 16:25.880]  Because that term is a term of art.
[16:25.880 --> 16:31.200]  It doesn't necessarily mean what we take it to mean in common language.
[16:31.200 --> 16:35.480]  They have to have a defined meaning for that term.
[16:35.480 --> 16:38.080]  We'll pick that up when we come back on the other side.
[16:38.080 --> 16:40.560]  This is Randy Kelton, Rule of Law Radio.
[16:40.560 --> 16:43.360]  I call him number 512-646-1984.
[16:43.360 --> 16:50.240]  We'll probably be on this for at least the first three segments, maybe longer.
[16:50.240 --> 16:54.760]  But as soon as I see that we're getting toward an end, then I'll open up the phone line.
[16:54.760 --> 16:58.800]  So hang on, we'll be right back.
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[19:07.520 --> 19:26.520]  Okay, we are back.
[19:26.520 --> 19:46.040]  Randy Felton, here with Mr. Denny, and when we went out, we were going to Discovery, and
[19:46.040 --> 19:54.960]  they're going after you as a nuisance, so can you define nuisance as it's used in this
[19:54.960 --> 19:56.680]  context?
[19:56.680 --> 20:05.320]  Sure, well, that's actually part of the strange things about the case.
[20:05.320 --> 20:13.240]  It defines nuisance, sound nuisances, but it also gives an exception to sound nuisances
[20:13.240 --> 20:20.720]  for gun ranges, and the court ruled against us not as a sound nuisance, but as a nuisance
[20:20.720 --> 20:23.680]  based on sound, which I don't know if I know the difference.
[20:23.680 --> 20:30.160]  But let me read it to you from the RCW 7.48.120.
[20:30.160 --> 20:36.840]  Nuisance consists in unlawfully doing an act or admitting to perform a duty which act or
[20:36.840 --> 20:45.440]  a mission either annoys, injures, or endangers the comfort, repose, health, or safety of
[20:45.440 --> 20:53.580]  others, offends decency, or unlawfully interferes with, obstructs, or tends to obstruct or render
[20:53.580 --> 21:00.960]  dangerous for passage any lake, navigable river, bay stream, canal basin, or any public
[21:00.960 --> 21:10.400]  park, square, street, highway, or in any way renders any other persons insecure in life
[21:10.400 --> 21:19.960]  or in the use of property.
[21:19.960 --> 21:23.200]  And I can't hear you, Randy.
[21:23.200 --> 21:27.240]  You muted my mic when I wasn't looking again.
[21:27.240 --> 21:34.440]  Which of these definitions are being used to support their claim of nuisance?
[21:34.440 --> 21:39.320]  Well they're using the general nuisance is my understanding.
[21:39.320 --> 21:43.800]  They're using the general nuisance because if they use the specific sound nuisance, then
[21:43.800 --> 21:48.760]  there's a specific gun range exception.
[21:48.760 --> 21:51.720]  What is a general nuisance?
[21:51.720 --> 21:56.960]  That's what I would call it, the one I just defined is the most general term.
[21:56.960 --> 22:02.680]  That had a number of different issues.
[22:02.680 --> 22:06.360]  Which one are they claiming you're breaching?
[22:06.360 --> 22:07.360]  Sure, sure.
[22:07.360 --> 22:10.560]  Are you denying use of property?
[22:10.560 --> 22:14.200]  I'm going to suspect comfort and repose.
[22:14.200 --> 22:17.200]  Exactly.
[22:17.200 --> 22:24.240]  If they are causing a nuisance in one of these areas, there has to be evidence of nuisance.
[22:24.240 --> 22:27.200]  What is the evidence of nuisance?
[22:27.200 --> 22:33.440]  In the original case of evidence, since it's been entered into evidence, it has merely
[22:33.440 --> 22:40.120]  been statements by landowners in the immediate vicinity.
[22:40.120 --> 22:42.640]  Do you have written verified statements?
[22:42.640 --> 22:43.640]  Yes.
[22:43.640 --> 22:49.280]  They actually test, some of it was testified to in the first case and there were affidavits
[22:49.280 --> 22:50.280]  initially.
[22:50.280 --> 22:55.600]  Okay, you're talking about noise as a nuisance.
[22:55.600 --> 22:59.880]  How much noise must there be to be a nuisance?
[22:59.880 --> 23:09.720]  Because if you play jazz at a level at which I can hear it, it's a nuisance.
[23:09.720 --> 23:12.260]  Well I agree and there is, let me see if I can pull it up.
[23:12.260 --> 23:19.560]  There is a nuisance that's sound related and I think there is a specific decibel level.
[23:19.560 --> 23:26.120]  But they didn't use that because there's an exception for gun ranges.
[23:26.120 --> 23:29.560]  So let me see if I can find that in here.
[23:29.560 --> 23:35.440]  What it sounds like is you don't know what you're defending against.
[23:35.440 --> 23:42.400]  Well one of the problems up to this point is they've been relatively vague to the maximum
[23:42.400 --> 23:49.560]  extent possible with respect to the statutes in many, many ways and that's actually one
[23:49.560 --> 23:57.000]  of the primary things we're attempting to leave with this new discovery is we're asking
[23:57.000 --> 24:03.840]  very specific questions about what about our sound is a nuisance?
[24:03.840 --> 24:08.600]  What exact things are they claiming we can do to alleviate that nuisance and to what
[24:08.600 --> 24:09.600]  extent?
[24:09.600 --> 24:12.480]  Okay, this sounds like a constitutional issue.
[24:12.480 --> 24:15.120]  Okay, in what way?
[24:15.120 --> 24:24.400]  You have not been apprised of the charges against you.
[24:24.400 --> 24:27.120]  You don't know what you're charged with.
[24:27.120 --> 24:32.520]  Okay, so you're saying that their claims were too vague.
[24:32.520 --> 24:38.600]  Too vague for any reasonable person of ordinary prudence to be able to understand what the
[24:38.600 --> 24:42.040]  claim was.
[24:42.040 --> 24:46.000]  You don't know how to fight your case because you really don't know what you're being charged
[24:46.000 --> 24:47.000]  with.
[24:47.000 --> 24:55.240]  They're using a vague and unspecific term, nuisance, sound nuisance, but they haven't
[24:55.240 --> 24:58.200]  defined what sound nuisance is.
[24:58.200 --> 25:05.480]  Sound nuisance is by its nature arbitrary and capricious.
[25:05.480 --> 25:11.400]  They certainly did not, in any of the stuff that I've read, they certainly did not give
[25:11.400 --> 25:20.960]  a specific decibel rating measured by technical equipment on or near our range that they object
[25:20.960 --> 25:21.960]  to.
[25:21.960 --> 25:29.640]  In fact, the only evidence I'm aware of that exists was done by the county, in fact, recently,
[25:29.640 --> 25:34.560]  and they're trying very, very hard to keep that from being entered into the court record.
[25:34.560 --> 25:40.440]  Okay, have you listened to the part of our shows where we talk about how you'll never
[25:40.440 --> 25:45.440]  win your case simply because you have the law and the facts on your side?
[25:45.440 --> 25:47.960]  I have heard that on the case, yes.
[25:47.960 --> 25:50.480]  You'll only win your case if you have the politics on your side.
[25:50.480 --> 25:59.360]  I'm always thinking politics, and what is going to frighten the county the most?
[25:59.360 --> 26:09.680]  What if their nuisance ordinance were to be ruled unconstitutional if you only beg?
[26:09.680 --> 26:12.120]  Have you challenged that?
[26:12.120 --> 26:14.840]  No, not that part, no.
[26:14.840 --> 26:17.320]  Let's give these guys a dog in the hunt.
[26:17.320 --> 26:20.480]  Right now, they don't have one.
[26:20.480 --> 26:24.500]  You want to come and fight, I'll give you something to fight for.
[26:24.500 --> 26:30.440]  You want to use your ordinance against me, well, I'm going to claim that it's unconstitutionally
[26:30.440 --> 26:35.040]  vague, and they want to use it in a way that's vague, that suits their purpose, so let's
[26:35.040 --> 26:40.520]  make it something that will cost them if they lose.
[26:40.520 --> 26:47.040]  Now is that something we can challenge after the ruling is completed, the trial court
[26:47.040 --> 26:53.480]  level, or is that... You can challenge constitutionality at any time, and this goes to subject matter
[26:53.480 --> 26:54.480]  jurisdiction.
[26:54.480 --> 26:55.480]  Okay.
[26:55.480 --> 27:01.560]  Unconstitutional application of the statute.
[27:01.560 --> 27:09.200]  If the statute is unconstitutional, it is void ab initio, if the court never had jurisdiction
[27:09.200 --> 27:15.640]  over the issue because, plus, the statute itself is unconstitutionally vague.
[27:15.640 --> 27:18.440]  Here you are, how many years have you been to this fight?
[27:18.440 --> 27:22.680]  This has been going on since 2011.
[27:22.680 --> 27:25.760]  You still don't know what you're fighting against.
[27:25.760 --> 27:34.240]  Yep, and then when we start asking them to be very, very specific, and that's all our
[27:34.240 --> 27:38.400]  interrogatories are, and we can talk about some of those if you want, we're asking them
[27:38.400 --> 27:40.480]  to be very, very specific.
[27:40.480 --> 27:41.520]  That's what they quashed.
[27:41.520 --> 27:46.860]  The court has quashed it and prohibited further discovery by court ruling.
[27:46.860 --> 27:52.800]  We can't even submit more discovery because the court has ordered us not to.
[27:52.800 --> 27:57.840]  This should get them in a locatory, should get a challenge to the constitutionality of
[27:57.840 --> 28:02.160]  the statute as a plight in your case.
[28:02.160 --> 28:04.880]  That'll give them something to dance with.
[28:04.880 --> 28:05.880]  Okay.
[28:05.880 --> 28:12.600]  I'm always thinking, how can you raise the bar?
[28:12.600 --> 28:17.440]  These guys come in, they're public officials, they're using the county's money, apparently
[28:17.440 --> 28:24.720]  to serve some particular contractor's financial interest.
[28:24.720 --> 28:28.000]  Not costing them anything, it's costing the county.
[28:28.000 --> 28:31.720]  So take the fight back to them.
[28:31.720 --> 28:34.720]  Okay, I'll look into that.
[28:34.720 --> 28:40.920]  Now another piece that I didn't understand was, I mean, I understand the idea of a court
[28:40.920 --> 28:48.240]  being able to quash a certain specific piece of discovery requested, but what I don't understand
[28:48.240 --> 28:56.600]  is the court prohibiting the club from any additional discovery request in the case.
[28:56.600 --> 28:59.560]  What was the ruling?
[28:59.560 --> 29:07.360]  Was it a preventing you from discovery until something else happened?
[29:07.360 --> 29:10.080]  Well, I got it right in front of me.
[29:10.080 --> 29:14.440]  It is so ordered that the plaintiff Kitsap county's motion to quash discovery and for
[29:14.440 --> 29:17.360]  protective order is granted as follows.
[29:17.360 --> 29:23.860]  KRRC's third set of interogatories are quashed without prejudice.
[29:23.860 --> 29:29.980]  The county's relief from any duty in responding to KKRC's third set of interogatories pending
[29:29.980 --> 29:38.720]  further order and KRRC may not serve additional discovery request on Kitsap county related
[29:38.720 --> 29:45.520]  to the above caption matter absent in order from the court authorizing same.
[29:45.520 --> 29:49.040]  That should get an interlocutory.
[29:49.040 --> 29:50.040]  Okay.
[29:50.040 --> 29:53.400]  On all those points or just the third one?
[29:53.400 --> 29:59.000]  You do it on all of them, unless...
[29:59.000 --> 30:08.960]  GPS is supposed to help drivers get from point A to point B, but in Australia, it led a trio
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[30:11.960 --> 30:17.720]  I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht, back to tell you about a navigational disaster next.
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[30:28.040 --> 30:33.240]  So protect your rights, say no to surveillance, and keep your information to yourself.
[30:33.240 --> 30:35.800]  Privacy, it's worth hanging on to.
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[31:17.000 --> 31:19.000]  students were sloshing back to shore.
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[33:12.000 --> 33:35.360]  Yeah, I got a warrant, and I'm gonna solve them, to the help of government them, prosecute
[33:35.360 --> 33:36.360]  them.
[33:36.360 --> 33:37.360]  Okay.
[33:37.360 --> 33:38.360]  Okay.
[33:38.360 --> 33:57.920]  We are back, Randy Kelton, Rule of Law Radio, here with our special guest, Marshall Binney.
[33:57.920 --> 34:00.000]  Yeah, we're right off the cliff again.
[34:00.000 --> 34:02.000]  I'm gonna get it for that.
[34:02.000 --> 34:03.000]  Okay.
[34:03.000 --> 34:05.560]  That's kind of into my subject.
[34:05.560 --> 34:08.960]  I like these technical discussions.
[34:08.960 --> 34:17.080]  We have a judge that appears to have denied a litigant in their right to discovery, but
[34:17.080 --> 34:21.720]  there's no explanation of the restriction.
[34:21.720 --> 34:27.960]  It seems to be a general restriction on all discovery of any kind, and the way I read
[34:27.960 --> 34:36.000]  the law, that would be a basic denial of right, unless there was some specific cause.
[34:36.000 --> 34:43.300]  In the case of a dispositive motion, a motion that would dispose of the case altogether,
[34:43.300 --> 34:49.160]  that doesn't need any more information in order to rule on the motion, then that would
[34:49.160 --> 34:55.080]  be a situation where they would want to protect the other side from the cost of discovery
[34:55.080 --> 34:58.240]  if the case is gonna be tossed.
[34:58.240 --> 35:05.640]  But apparently in this case, we don't have a singular dispositive motion of that nature,
[35:05.640 --> 35:11.480]  and the restriction on discovery seems general.
[35:11.480 --> 35:18.040]  If that's the case, that would appear to be a denial of rights, a constitutional issue,
[35:18.040 --> 35:20.240]  or a due process issue.
[35:20.240 --> 35:27.560]  So we were speaking on the break that probably the way to go about this is ask the judge
[35:27.560 --> 35:30.760]  to clarify his order.
[35:30.760 --> 35:32.760]  So what do you think, Marshall?
[35:32.760 --> 35:39.680]  Okay, so I was thinking to ask for a, what do they call it, findings of fact and conclusions
[35:39.680 --> 35:44.760]  at law, but you're saying that that's about the appropriate motion to make in this case?
[35:44.760 --> 35:45.760]  Right.
[35:45.760 --> 35:49.280]  This is not that kind of ruling.
[35:49.280 --> 35:53.360]  It's not a ruling on law.
[35:53.360 --> 36:03.560]  This goes to his discretionary authority to control the case.
[36:03.560 --> 36:08.920]  So this would go to due process and due cause.
[36:08.920 --> 36:12.160]  So you want him to show due cause.
[36:12.160 --> 36:20.640]  He's not ruling on a statute or maybe opposing statutes and making a judicial determination.
[36:20.640 --> 36:23.640]  So this is more administrative in its nature.
[36:23.640 --> 36:30.240]  So we'll call for a more administrative address, and always, it's always a good thing to ask
[36:30.240 --> 36:37.280]  the judge to show his reason for doing exactly what he did because it's clearly not in his
[36:37.280 --> 36:38.280]  order.
[36:38.280 --> 36:46.160]  And generally, that kind of reasoning is asking for clarification.
[36:46.160 --> 36:54.040]  If he refuses to produce the clarification, then you might ask for a findings of fact
[36:54.040 --> 37:02.720]  and conclusions of law, and when you do that, you always want to present your own findings
[37:02.720 --> 37:09.400]  of fact and conclusions of law and ask the judge to accept yours.
[37:09.400 --> 37:14.080]  And then that puts the other side in a position to where they have to provide their own findings
[37:14.080 --> 37:22.760]  of fact and conclusions of law and ask the judge to accept theirs.
[37:22.760 --> 37:29.640]  That's why this is not really a good case for findings of fact.
[37:29.640 --> 37:33.200]  But that sounds like a very short motion to me, I mean, a motion for clarification.
[37:33.200 --> 37:35.000]  That sounds like a two page motion to me.
[37:35.000 --> 37:37.000]  Yes, it does.
[37:37.000 --> 37:41.080]  That's a lot simpler and you kind of put the judge on the dime.
[37:41.080 --> 37:48.440]  If he refuses to give you clarification, then that opens the door for interlocutory appeal.
[37:48.440 --> 37:54.920]  Well if he refuses and that's a direct violation of due process and he doesn't explain himself,
[37:54.920 --> 37:59.200]  that sounds like an 18 US 242 issue to me.
[37:59.200 --> 38:06.760]  Well, what they say is the way they handle that is if the judge does not reply within
[38:06.760 --> 38:14.960]  generally 10 days or whatever set of time the judge has to respond, then they presume
[38:14.960 --> 38:17.520]  that the motion is denied.
[38:17.520 --> 38:23.040]  So they kind of cover that, they take the judge off the dime on that issue, he can just
[38:23.040 --> 38:24.320]  ignore it.
[38:24.320 --> 38:29.560]  But as soon as that time period ends, then you've opened the door to an interlocutory
[38:29.560 --> 38:30.560]  appeal.
[38:30.560 --> 38:31.560]  Okay.
[38:31.560 --> 38:42.080]  Especially if you need the discovery to defend against or to adjudicate what is currently
[38:42.080 --> 38:43.880]  before the court.
[38:43.880 --> 38:47.280]  Well that's exactly what the questions go to.
[38:47.280 --> 38:54.640]  We're asking them to be specific as opposed to general in exactly what they're asking
[38:54.640 --> 38:55.640]  from the court.
[38:55.640 --> 39:04.040]  I just, if I can give you a couple of examples, interlocutory 19, described with specificity
[39:04.040 --> 39:10.640]  what if anything the county contends the club must do differently in the future to remedy
[39:10.640 --> 39:16.640]  the expansion described by the court of appeals as being associated, et cetera, et cetera,
[39:16.640 --> 39:17.640]  et cetera.
[39:17.640 --> 39:20.880]  We're asking for them to be specific as opposed to be vague.
[39:20.880 --> 39:24.880]  Lots and lots of stuff up to this point has been vague in nature.
[39:24.880 --> 39:28.080]  Another example would be interlocutory 20.
[39:28.080 --> 39:32.800]  What conditions would the county impose as part of a conditional use permit, which is
[39:32.800 --> 39:37.200]  another thing they've been wanting us to get, to allow the club to engage in the type of
[39:37.200 --> 39:40.840]  expansion referred to in interlocutory 19 above.
[39:40.840 --> 39:47.280]  So that's the sort of thing we're asking, which to me sounds eminently reasonable.
[39:47.280 --> 39:54.800]  And if they were to have a really high quality motion before the court, they need to answer
[39:54.800 --> 39:59.280]  these questions anyhow, if in some other form.
[39:59.280 --> 40:04.960]  But what we've been getting up to this point is they use very vague statements, very broad
[40:04.960 --> 40:12.040]  statements with the court, I guess, to give the judge the widest possible latitude to
[40:12.040 --> 40:13.760]  get what they want.
[40:13.760 --> 40:20.800]  So they've made that so wide that they opened the door to a constitutional challenge in
[40:20.800 --> 40:24.920]  the statute as applied.
[40:24.920 --> 40:31.520]  That's not going to make them happy because now they're looking at the possibility of
[40:31.520 --> 40:34.880]  having their hands tied completely.
[40:34.880 --> 40:40.600]  Well, and that could also apply additional political pressure if the state law becomes
[40:40.600 --> 40:47.600]  in danger because of this overreaching county commissioners, that could put pressure from
[40:47.600 --> 40:48.600]  other directions.
[40:48.600 --> 40:49.600]  Exactly.
[40:49.600 --> 40:54.280]  It's all about the politics.
[40:54.280 --> 40:59.820]  If you make a challenge to the constitutionality of the statute as applied, then you might
[40:59.820 --> 41:09.560]  want to reach out to other counties for an amicus curiae and say, this county is trying
[41:09.560 --> 41:18.160]  to take over this property for some developer, but in the process, they're going to get a
[41:18.160 --> 41:25.840]  restriction put on this statute that'll affect you and every other county's ability to enforce
[41:25.840 --> 41:28.840]  the statute.
[41:28.840 --> 41:33.800]  Well, that would be very interesting if they would do that.
[41:33.800 --> 41:36.240]  A good chance they will.
[41:36.240 --> 41:37.240]  Really?
[41:37.240 --> 41:44.120]  Counties do not like to have their hands tied.
[41:44.120 --> 41:49.720]  And the other thing is that there are some other counties that mainly in the eastern
[41:49.720 --> 41:56.040]  part of the state, which treat gun ranges much more gently and respectfully than they
[41:56.040 --> 41:58.080]  do out here.
[41:58.080 --> 42:02.720]  And in fact, they have a lot of protective ordinances about that sort of stuff.
[42:02.720 --> 42:05.120]  And so that may be the right people to approach.
[42:05.120 --> 42:06.120]  Yeah.
[42:06.120 --> 42:14.920]  Amicus curiae from another county would be very influential to an appeals court.
[42:14.920 --> 42:17.360]  Interesting.
[42:17.360 --> 42:25.120]  Maybe not to a local county court because they're local, but the court of appeals is
[42:25.120 --> 42:32.840]  general across the state, so other counties that are stepping in, that could have a strong
[42:32.840 --> 42:33.840]  influence.
[42:33.840 --> 42:34.840]  Sure.
[42:34.840 --> 42:37.320]  Crank up the politics on them.
[42:37.320 --> 42:40.240]  Well, we're applying politics from other directions.
[42:40.240 --> 42:41.760]  I'll point out one particular thing.
[42:41.760 --> 42:46.920]  We continuously are going before the county commissioners.
[42:46.920 --> 42:54.520]  They have open mic for public comment twice a month, and we continue to saturate that.
[42:54.520 --> 42:57.040]  They actually change the rules.
[42:57.040 --> 43:04.560]  I wanted to ask you about that at a recent meeting that limited all debate relative to
[43:04.560 --> 43:13.280]  the second amendment, the gun range and property rights to a total of 15 minutes for all speakers
[43:13.280 --> 43:14.880]  combined.
[43:14.880 --> 43:21.640]  But they did not make that limitation with respect to any other topic.
[43:21.640 --> 43:35.520]  I think maybe they can do that as long as it's specifically an entire topic in order
[43:35.520 --> 43:47.400]  to be able to conduct a meeting so that one particular interest can't take over the meeting.
[43:47.400 --> 43:49.880]  I don't think you'd be able to beat that one.
[43:49.880 --> 43:51.720]  Well, but that's not the limitation.
[43:51.720 --> 43:53.680]  They just don't want to hear it anymore.
[43:53.680 --> 43:58.880]  Generally, the meeting of the county commissioners is set for two hours, and let's say they
[43:58.880 --> 43:59.880]  finish up...
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[45:59.920 --> 46:10.240]  Whoa, whoa, whoa, yeah.
[46:10.240 --> 46:29.280]  Always, I must be careful what I'm wishing for.
[46:29.280 --> 46:36.280]  When I'm hungry, I like to know just what I'm fishing for.
[46:36.280 --> 46:41.280]  I ain't asking for much, I ain't trying to be no glutton.
[46:41.280 --> 46:47.280]  I'm just here making my living, pushing buttons.
[46:47.280 --> 46:52.280]  I get my message out to anyone who's shouting distance.
[46:52.280 --> 46:58.280]  I'm both for bravery and against slavery, showing resistance.
[46:58.280 --> 47:02.280]  First I'm crawling, then I'm walking, then I'm starving.
[47:02.280 --> 47:03.280]  Okay, we are back.
[47:03.280 --> 47:08.280]  Randy Kelton, Rule of Law Radio, and we're talking to Marshall Denny from Washington
[47:08.280 --> 47:09.280]  State.
[47:09.280 --> 47:19.280]  And we were talking about going out, the restrictions on discovery, and then we got into the city
[47:19.280 --> 47:23.280]  council meetings, the county commissioners court meetings.
[47:23.280 --> 47:33.280]  And apparently you've gotten some good feedback from the community and from your talks in
[47:33.280 --> 47:34.280]  the city council meetings.
[47:34.280 --> 47:35.280]  Can you address that?
[47:35.280 --> 47:39.280]  I mean, the county commissioners meetings, can you address that?
[47:39.280 --> 47:40.280]  Sure.
[47:40.280 --> 47:46.040]  Well, a number of the membership continues to go to these meetings of the county commissioners
[47:46.040 --> 47:51.280]  and makes various comments, quite a few of which are, of course, not well received.
[47:51.280 --> 47:59.280]  But we also have an ongoing number of people coming to the commissioners meetings, some
[47:59.280 --> 48:06.280]  of which are not members of our club, some of which are, some are old members.
[48:06.280 --> 48:14.280]  One particular one that sticks out in my mind recently was a local police officer in the
[48:14.280 --> 48:19.280]  local area was really giving them what for about this case.
[48:19.280 --> 48:27.280]  And he said that not only are these people not unsafe, but we are the only range in the
[48:27.280 --> 48:34.280]  area to which he would trust his children to be trained in proper firearm handling.
[48:34.280 --> 48:39.000]  And he said that in public in front of the county commissioners as a current serving
[48:39.000 --> 48:40.000]  officer.
[48:40.000 --> 48:46.280]  And of course, I'll let you guess at the level of political pressure that puts on the table.
[48:46.280 --> 48:52.280]  Ooh, that's gutsy on the part of that officer.
[48:52.280 --> 48:55.280]  And we're getting more and more of that from...
[48:55.280 --> 48:56.280]  Wait a minute.
[48:56.280 --> 48:57.280]  Wait a minute.
[48:57.280 --> 48:59.280]  Have you talked to the police department?
[48:59.280 --> 49:05.760]  Well, we have quite a number of police departments in the county, but a number of those would
[49:05.760 --> 49:08.600]  not be directly supported in public.
[49:08.600 --> 49:15.560]  The reason I ask this is my first thought was for this officer to come before the county
[49:15.560 --> 49:22.040]  commissioners and take a position opposed to the county commissioners to the county's
[49:22.040 --> 49:28.560]  position would seem to be risking his political career.
[49:28.560 --> 49:34.240]  Well, in this state, we have cities that, what do they call it?
[49:34.240 --> 49:35.720]  Home rule cities.
[49:35.720 --> 49:41.280]  So the cities, while they are in the county, to a great extent, if they're a home rule
[49:41.280 --> 49:47.120]  city, they're independent of the county, and for example, the city police department do
[49:47.120 --> 49:51.360]  not serve at the whim of the county commissioners.
[49:51.360 --> 49:58.440]  That was what I was thinking, that this officer didn't just come in there.
[49:58.440 --> 50:03.560]  He had to do that with permission from his boss, and almost certainly with support from
[50:03.560 --> 50:05.040]  his boss.
[50:05.040 --> 50:11.180]  Well, I can't say that for sure, but we certainly do have gotten support from a number
[50:11.180 --> 50:17.880]  of officers in the area, quite a few of which don't wish to go on the record publicly, but
[50:17.880 --> 50:23.240]  this one did, and for him to specify to be that specific that we're the only ones he
[50:23.240 --> 50:25.840]  would trust to train his children.
[50:25.840 --> 50:34.240]  Again, we've had a number of things of that sort, parents of military people that live
[50:34.240 --> 50:40.720]  in the local area that use our range regularly when they're in from foreign countries and
[50:40.720 --> 50:46.320]  wish to train, that sort of thing coming up over and over and over again.
[50:46.320 --> 50:52.280]  And by the way, that is broadcast, the county commissioners meetings are broadcast on public
[50:52.280 --> 50:55.600]  access cable in the local area.
[50:55.600 --> 51:02.840]  So people in the county and the communities are hearing this stuff, and our perception
[51:02.840 --> 51:08.400]  is that political pressure is, we're making a lot of headway, and in addition to that,
[51:08.400 --> 51:15.440]  from a political standpoint, we're making friendships and alliances with people with
[51:15.440 --> 51:17.040]  other topics.
[51:17.040 --> 51:26.560]  The county recently closed a group that runs in a public park, runs some steamer trains,
[51:26.560 --> 51:34.960]  old fashioned steamer trains in a public park for public to access to promote the history
[51:34.960 --> 51:37.880]  of steam trains and that sort of thing.
[51:37.880 --> 51:43.080]  And from recent actions of the county, they are closed down.
[51:43.080 --> 51:49.160]  So the county is overstepping in a number of areas very close in time, and they're also
[51:49.160 --> 51:53.480]  trying to restrict the number of chickens you can have on your property and some other
[51:53.480 --> 51:54.480]  issues.
[51:54.480 --> 51:59.960]  So we're making alliances with other people in the area related to other issues and trying
[51:59.960 --> 52:07.840]  to work together with them to slow down the county's overreach in a lot of these areas.
[52:07.840 --> 52:11.600]  When is the next election for county commissioners?
[52:11.600 --> 52:17.000]  Oh, I have to look that up, but there's a couple of them that are coming up due this
[52:17.000 --> 52:18.720]  next election period.
[52:18.720 --> 52:23.960]  You might see if you can get someone to run for the position.
[52:23.960 --> 52:25.760]  Sure.
[52:25.760 --> 52:26.760]  And we're expecting...
[52:26.760 --> 52:31.040]  Or at least put their name in.
[52:31.040 --> 52:32.040]  Oh, sure, sure.
[52:32.040 --> 52:34.040]  That has been seriously considered.
[52:34.040 --> 52:40.120]  It's been seriously considered and announced at the commissioner's meetings, in fact.
[52:40.120 --> 52:41.120]  So that would...
[52:41.120 --> 52:45.080]  It's all about politics.
[52:45.080 --> 52:46.920]  And if these guys...
[52:46.920 --> 52:55.440]  If you're beginning to make loud political noises, how much is it...
[52:55.440 --> 53:02.600]  Approximately what's it costing the gun range right now to be in this position?
[53:02.600 --> 53:06.480]  That's kind of rhetorical.
[53:06.480 --> 53:12.640]  I'm not really trying to get into your money issues, but I'm thinking in terms of advertising.
[53:12.640 --> 53:18.280]  Well, I don't know what it costs from an advertising standpoint.
[53:18.280 --> 53:20.200]  We spend a lot of money on lawyers.
[53:20.200 --> 53:25.440]  And of course, a part of the money that comes in are people who are non-members that make
[53:25.440 --> 53:29.680]  a donation, generally make a donation to shoot.
[53:29.680 --> 53:32.000]  And all of that has stopped, of course.
[53:32.000 --> 53:39.360]  And of course, we have the loss of the use of our own property owned by the club to actually
[53:39.360 --> 53:43.280]  use it for its intended purpose.
[53:43.280 --> 53:48.520]  Have you filed a countersuit against the county for restraint of trade?
[53:48.520 --> 53:51.600]  No, we have not.
[53:51.600 --> 53:54.560]  You might consider that.
[53:54.560 --> 53:57.280]  Restraint of trade for a non-profit corporation?
[53:57.280 --> 54:05.480]  Well, you still... restraint of trade doesn't necessarily go to making a profit.
[54:05.480 --> 54:13.400]  This is your business, even though it's non-profit, you have a right to operate your business.
[54:13.400 --> 54:18.680]  And someone's having to pay the mortgage on the facility.
[54:18.680 --> 54:22.480]  Well, it's paid off, but that's all right.
[54:22.480 --> 54:28.200]  Well, there's taxes, there are costs in just having the facility.
[54:28.200 --> 54:30.040]  Sure, sure.
[54:30.040 --> 54:37.760]  And the money that you would get to cover your costs, whatever that's being, you're
[54:37.760 --> 54:41.480]  losing that income.
[54:41.480 --> 54:43.280]  Try a countersuit.
[54:43.280 --> 54:50.600]  It's always been my position that the best defense is good effect of offense.
[54:50.600 --> 54:55.680]  Well, that's been discussed as something we'll do after we get done with these cases.
[54:55.680 --> 54:58.400]  Are you advocating that we do it before then?
[54:58.400 --> 54:59.880]  Do it same time.
[54:59.880 --> 55:01.440]  All right, put them on the dime.
[55:01.440 --> 55:05.560]  They're stopping discovery because you don't have a claim against them.
[55:05.560 --> 55:12.520]  If you put a claim against them, then you still have a right to discovery.
[55:12.520 --> 55:17.920]  So go back and put a... you look at putting a claim against them for restraining your
[55:17.920 --> 55:23.720]  trade because they're trying to convert the property to some other... their private party's
[55:23.720 --> 55:24.720]  use.
[55:24.720 --> 55:26.840]  If you suspect that, claim it.
[55:26.840 --> 55:27.840]  Okay?
[55:27.840 --> 55:31.280]  You don't have to be able to prove it up.
[55:31.280 --> 55:39.280]  You know, I no longer look at what can I conclusively prove.
[55:39.280 --> 55:46.840]  Okay, the courts will frown on this, but I don't care what they frown on.
[55:46.840 --> 55:52.920]  If I have an issue that the other side is going to have a hard time defending, it gives
[55:52.920 --> 55:54.600]  me leverage.
[55:54.600 --> 55:56.080]  Sure.
[55:56.080 --> 56:01.960]  I have a case with Wells Fargo now where we filed a rescission and they didn't respond
[56:01.960 --> 56:08.920]  to it because the recent case law from the Supreme Court on rescission is relatively
[56:08.920 --> 56:11.520]  new and it's a big company.
[56:11.520 --> 56:13.840]  They don't know how to deal with it yet.
[56:13.840 --> 56:20.280]  So we filed a rescission and they didn't respond to it in time.
[56:20.280 --> 56:26.440]  Now we were out of time in filing the rescission and they're going to say, well, they didn't
[56:26.440 --> 56:32.920]  have a right to file it and we're going to say maybe, but you had a duty to respond.
[56:32.920 --> 56:39.360]  You sat on your rights and therefore you're subject to latches.
[56:39.360 --> 56:43.600]  While I may not have had a right to do it, there's nothing in the law that shows that
[56:43.600 --> 56:45.640]  that's a bar to my action.
[56:45.640 --> 56:51.320]  It may well be an affirmative defense, but you would have had to claim the defense.
[56:51.320 --> 56:58.360]  So I put them in a position to where now they have to come up with something or they lose.
[56:58.360 --> 57:02.880]  Right now they don't have anything to lose.
[57:02.880 --> 57:04.520]  Sure.
[57:04.520 --> 57:08.600]  So it's easy for them.
[57:08.600 --> 57:15.560]  We don't have really strong evidence, but we have dug up in recent days, we have dug
[57:15.560 --> 57:23.520]  up some highly suspicious information that a reasonable person would, I think, find very
[57:23.520 --> 57:24.520]  suspicious.
[57:24.520 --> 57:30.200]  For example, a couple of major developers in recent years have bought land directly
[57:30.200 --> 57:38.440]  adjacent to the gun range and that one of the county commissioners was the primary legal
[57:38.440 --> 57:43.560]  representation for the same organization.
[57:43.560 --> 57:57.240]  That's enough to go for recusal of that member and then sue the county based on a claim of,
[57:57.240 --> 58:01.280]  it's hard to think of the exact word.
[58:01.280 --> 58:07.000]  There's a term for trying to take property when they can't get it under a minute domain,
[58:07.000 --> 58:08.000]  conversion.
[58:08.000 --> 58:16.440]  This is attempted proper conversion by the county of private property so that they can
[58:16.440 --> 58:17.520]  use it for development.
[58:17.520 --> 58:25.600]  Now the Supreme has ruled they can do that by condemnation, but these guys know they
[58:25.600 --> 58:33.200]  can't get it by condemnation, so they're trying to get it a different way.
[58:33.200 --> 58:41.000]  My guess would be because it's been a gun range for so long and potential lead issues,
[58:41.000 --> 58:43.560]  I don't think they actually want our property.
[58:43.560 --> 58:50.480]  I think they want us to shut down permanently to increase the property adjacent to the property.
[58:50.480 --> 58:54.640]  Would you like to make more definite progress in your walk with God?
[58:54.640 --> 58:59.800]  Bibles for America is offering a free study Bible and a set of free Christian books that
[58:59.800 --> 59:01.160]  can really help.
[59:01.160 --> 59:05.640]  The New Testament Recovery Version is one of the most comprehensive study Bibles available
[59:05.640 --> 59:06.640]  today.
[59:06.640 --> 59:10.520]  It's an accurate translation and it contains thousands of footnotes that will help you
[59:10.520 --> 59:13.640]  to know God and to know the meaning of life.
[59:13.640 --> 59:18.880]  The free books are a three volume set called Basic Elements of the Christian Life.
[59:18.880 --> 59:23.160]  Chapter by chapter, Basic Elements of the Christian Life clearly presents God's plan
[59:23.160 --> 59:28.080]  of salvation, growing in Christ and how to build up the church.
[59:28.080 --> 59:33.080]  To order your free New Testament Recovery Version and Basic Elements of the Christian
[59:33.080 --> 59:40.880]  Life, call Bibles for America toll free at 888-551-0102.
[59:40.880 --> 59:49.000]  That's 888-551-0102 or visit us online at bfa.org.
[59:49.000 --> 01:00:02.880]  Live, free speech radio, logosradionetwork.com.
[01:00:02.880 --> 01:00:07.960]  The following use flash is brought to you by the Lone Star Lowdown, provided by Deli
[01:00:07.960 --> 01:00:15.680]  Bullittons for the Commodities Market, Today in History, News Updates, and the Inside Scoop
[01:00:15.680 --> 01:00:23.560]  into the Tides of the Alternatives.
[01:00:23.560 --> 01:00:29.800]  Markets for the 16th of September, 2015 opened up with gold at $1,120.30 an ounce, silver
[01:00:29.800 --> 01:00:36.760]  $14.94 an ounce, Texas crude $44.59 a barrel, and Bitcoin is currently sitting at about
[01:00:36.760 --> 01:00:44.640]  228 U.S. currency.
[01:00:44.640 --> 01:00:50.120]  Today in History, Sunday, September 16, 1810, Mexican Independence Day, El Grito de Dolores
[01:00:50.120 --> 01:00:54.820]  or the Cry of Dolores, which was uttered from the cathedral in the small town of Dolores
[01:00:54.820 --> 01:00:56.720]  near Guanajuato, Mexico.
[01:00:56.720 --> 01:01:02.160]  The cry by Miguel Hidalgo y Castilla, a Roman Catholic priest, took place around 6 a.m.
[01:01:02.160 --> 01:01:05.840]  as he ordered the church bells to be rung to gather his congregation.
[01:01:05.840 --> 01:01:08.240]  He addressed the people and encouraged them to revolt.
[01:01:08.240 --> 01:01:15.880]  El Grito was the declaration of the Mexican War of Independence.
[01:01:15.880 --> 01:01:20.760]  In recent news, the Federal Aviation Administration stated yesterday that it has set up no drone
[01:01:20.760 --> 01:01:26.720]  zones in Washington, D.C., New York, and Philadelphia for Pope Francis' papal visit from September
[01:01:26.720 --> 01:01:28.720]  22nd through the 27th.
[01:01:28.720 --> 01:01:32.560]  FAA Administrator Michael Huerta said in a note that if you plan to attend any of the
[01:01:32.560 --> 01:01:35.760]  papal visit events, please leave your drone at home.
[01:01:35.760 --> 01:01:40.040]  Anyone tempted to send their unmanned gadgets into the heavens during the banned period
[01:01:40.040 --> 01:01:47.760]  could face civil and criminal charges.
[01:01:47.760 --> 01:01:51.640]  A GoPro camera that was launched into space by students at Stanford University near the
[01:01:51.640 --> 01:01:56.180]  Grand Canyon in June of 2013, tethered to a high-altitude weather balloon to gather
[01:01:56.180 --> 01:02:01.400]  data for Brian Chan's aerospace engineering dissertation, was lost for nearly two years.
[01:02:01.400 --> 01:02:05.520]  An Arizona hiker who found the camera and phone back in March, who happened to be an
[01:02:05.520 --> 01:02:09.520]  AT&T employee, was able to identify the owner using the SIM card.
[01:02:09.520 --> 01:02:13.800]  Chan posted the video from the camera to YouTube last Thursday, and as of today, the video
[01:02:13.800 --> 01:02:21.380]  has more than 3.5 million views.
[01:02:21.380 --> 01:02:24.920]  Police officers Michael McGovern and Cameron Beckham were working off-duty security at
[01:02:24.920 --> 01:02:30.760]  a construction site on understate 35 overnight and decided to grab a bite to eat at the Waterburger
[01:02:30.760 --> 01:02:33.280]  on Main Street in Louisville, Texas.
[01:02:33.280 --> 01:02:36.560]  That's when a guy behind the counter told them that they didn't serve police officers
[01:02:36.560 --> 01:02:37.560]  there.
[01:02:37.560 --> 01:02:40.680]  The two officers thought he was joking, but he didn't say anything else.
[01:02:40.680 --> 01:02:43.920]  They ended up leaving, went across the street to the Dairy Queen instead.
[01:02:43.920 --> 01:02:46.920]  However, they did go back to file a complaint.
[01:02:46.920 --> 01:02:50.240]  The employee who identified himself as a manager was fired.
[01:02:50.240 --> 01:02:52.880]  Waterburger has offered an official apology.
[01:02:52.880 --> 01:03:05.760]  This has been your Lowdown for September 16, 2013.
[01:03:05.760 --> 01:03:29.640]  All
[01:03:29.640 --> 01:03:53.320]  Okay, we are back, Randy Kelton, Radio, here with Marshall Dooney, and you had one more
[01:03:53.320 --> 01:03:55.360]  issue you wanted to address.
[01:03:55.360 --> 01:04:01.920]  Sure, in Kitsap 2, in the middle of all these appeals and whatnot, there was one little
[01:04:01.920 --> 01:04:05.680]  dance they did that I found very irregular.
[01:04:05.680 --> 01:04:12.120]  Where we were at before the appeal, in fact where we're back at now, is at the trial
[01:04:12.120 --> 01:04:18.880]  court level, after a bunch of briefs were done, the county asked for summary judgment.
[01:04:18.880 --> 01:04:24.880]  And we did an appeal of the sort we did in the first case, which was not effective.
[01:04:24.880 --> 01:04:31.680]  And as soon as we did that, the judge said he was not going to rule on the summary judgment
[01:04:31.680 --> 01:04:37.400]  until the appeals court made a ruling, an interlocutory appeal.
[01:04:37.400 --> 01:04:42.800]  The problem was that it wasn't completely dispositive, number one, and the irregularity
[01:04:42.800 --> 01:04:51.940]  was part of the denial of the appeal by the appellate court was that he had not ruled
[01:04:51.940 --> 01:04:54.140]  on summary judgment yet.
[01:04:54.140 --> 01:04:59.600]  So basically, the trial judge says, I'm not going to rule on summary judgment until they
[01:04:59.600 --> 01:05:00.600]  rule.
[01:05:00.600 --> 01:05:05.640]  And the appeals court said, we're not going to rule on any of this yet because he hasn't
[01:05:05.640 --> 01:05:08.080]  ruled on summary judgment yet.
[01:05:08.080 --> 01:05:15.680]  So basically, I see that as a denial of our ability to appeal.
[01:05:15.680 --> 01:05:21.100]  That was a deliberate ploy on the part of the judge because the judge knew for certain
[01:05:21.100 --> 01:05:30.960]  that if your appeal was, well, if you had an interlocutory, that should not have been
[01:05:30.960 --> 01:05:31.960]  an issue.
[01:05:31.960 --> 01:05:39.080]  If the ruling in the interlocutory appeal would have not been a dispositive ruling.
[01:05:39.080 --> 01:05:43.960]  Well, it would have been partially dispositive, but not completely dispositive.
[01:05:43.960 --> 01:05:51.080]  It would have gotten rid of some of the issues, but not all of them.
[01:05:51.080 --> 01:06:00.080]  And the motion to dismiss would have gotten rid of all of them.
[01:06:00.080 --> 01:06:08.320]  I'm questionable, but have to look at that more closely to see why the court of appeals
[01:06:08.320 --> 01:06:11.760]  chose not to rule.
[01:06:11.760 --> 01:06:17.760]  The court of appeals can't rule on something that would dispose of an issue that's still
[01:06:17.760 --> 01:06:21.160]  before the trial court.
[01:06:21.160 --> 01:06:29.080]  So I would think that the court of appeals was concerned about interfering with the authority
[01:06:29.080 --> 01:06:34.880]  of the trial court because that would just get an appeal from the other side.
[01:06:34.880 --> 01:06:42.040]  And the judge himself was afraid of ruling on something that the court would necessarily
[01:06:42.040 --> 01:06:43.040]  overturn.
[01:06:43.040 --> 01:06:44.040]  Well, exactly.
[01:06:44.040 --> 01:06:48.600]  And he didn't want to be overruled, and my guess was he was in fear, at least on some
[01:06:48.600 --> 01:06:51.520]  of the issues, of being overruled.
[01:06:51.520 --> 01:07:01.200]  So if I could figure out why the judge did what he did, and I look closely at it, if
[01:07:01.200 --> 01:07:08.400]  the judge did what he did to make his life easier, I'm going to sting him.
[01:07:08.400 --> 01:07:13.400]  I like to sting the judge every chance I get.
[01:07:13.400 --> 01:07:20.840]  So you might file a judicial conduct complaint against the judge for failing to properly
[01:07:20.840 --> 01:07:25.280]  adjudicate the case and in the process denying you and your wife to an appeal.
[01:07:25.280 --> 01:07:32.720]  Well, they certainly are appearing to delay things, and by delaying on ruling on the summary
[01:07:32.720 --> 01:07:36.600]  judgment, it's just stretching everything out, and they're trying to stretch it out
[01:07:36.600 --> 01:07:39.360]  while we're closed.
[01:07:39.360 --> 01:07:47.240]  And did the other side petition the judge not to rule?
[01:07:47.240 --> 01:07:49.920]  No, no, they did not.
[01:07:49.920 --> 01:07:51.440]  He did this on his own, apparently.
[01:07:51.440 --> 01:08:00.200]  The judge did it on his own, so what I was getting at was baritory, fomenting litigation
[01:08:00.200 --> 01:08:11.440]  or to litigating the case in such a way as to increase the cost to opposing parties in
[01:08:11.440 --> 01:08:17.640]  order to prevent them from being able to adjudicate the case.
[01:08:17.640 --> 01:08:23.720]  And your lawyers won't like this, but I like to go after the judge.
[01:08:23.720 --> 01:08:27.200]  I'd also like to go after the lawyers.
[01:08:27.200 --> 01:08:32.760]  My understanding of a judicial conduct complaint, we don't need a lawyer to do that, but you
[01:08:32.760 --> 01:08:39.440]  have a lawyer who's going to feel in jeopardy.
[01:08:39.440 --> 01:08:47.200]  If you have lawyers that are doing a good job and you can work with, it's probably not
[01:08:47.200 --> 01:08:50.220]  a good idea to use these tactics.
[01:08:50.220 --> 01:08:56.600]  But if you have a lawyer that seems like he may be throwing you under the bus, then you
[01:08:56.600 --> 01:08:57.600]  can go after him.
[01:08:57.600 --> 01:09:03.800]  I have a friend that's in bankruptcy, and the other side filed a motion to dismiss and
[01:09:03.800 --> 01:09:10.760]  what they do in bankruptcy is it's so competitive, the lawyers charge about $3,200 for bankruptcy.
[01:09:10.760 --> 01:09:15.920]  And for that $3,200, there's only certain things they want to do and then they're done.
[01:09:15.920 --> 01:09:20.320]  So when they get that part done, the other side knows when they get there, they file
[01:09:20.320 --> 01:09:22.040]  a motion to dismiss.
[01:09:22.040 --> 01:09:24.640]  The lawyer tells his client he doesn't need to show up.
[01:09:24.640 --> 01:09:29.960]  He goes to the hearing and he advises the court to dismiss his client's case.
[01:09:29.960 --> 01:09:32.400]  So he didn't have to do anymore.
[01:09:32.400 --> 01:09:36.280]  Problem, we knew that was coming.
[01:09:36.280 --> 01:09:41.240]  So we had the client show up and told the lawyer, if they dismiss the case, you're going
[01:09:41.240 --> 01:09:42.240]  to appeal.
[01:09:42.240 --> 01:09:43.240]  He said, no, or not.
[01:09:43.240 --> 01:09:44.240]  And he said, yes, you are.
[01:09:44.240 --> 01:09:49.400]  So she had bargained him and he was really unhappy with that.
[01:09:49.400 --> 01:09:52.120]  And then he filed a motion to withdraw.
[01:09:52.120 --> 01:09:54.960]  He filed an objection.
[01:09:54.960 --> 01:10:00.120]  The clerk said she had never seen one before.
[01:10:00.120 --> 01:10:07.680]  They went into court and the judge said, well, if you're unhappy with this lawyer and you
[01:10:07.680 --> 01:10:11.360]  can't get along with him, then why don't you want him to withdraw?
[01:10:11.360 --> 01:10:13.120]  Because I paid him.
[01:10:13.120 --> 01:10:14.120]  He's under contract.
[01:10:14.120 --> 01:10:21.920]  And this is what I kept telling him, I don't know, he's under contract, constitution.
[01:10:21.920 --> 01:10:26.240]  The government's forbidden to interfere with the private contract.
[01:10:26.240 --> 01:10:29.960]  So keep telling the judge, he's under contract.
[01:10:29.960 --> 01:10:32.560]  I paid him.
[01:10:32.560 --> 01:10:34.320]  And he has a duty to do this job.
[01:10:34.320 --> 01:10:35.720]  I don't care if he likes me or not.
[01:10:35.720 --> 01:10:38.640]  I don't care if we get along or not.
[01:10:38.640 --> 01:10:40.360]  And finally the judge got it.
[01:10:40.360 --> 01:10:45.040]  The judge said, sorry, counselor, you're going to have to work this out with your clients.
[01:10:45.040 --> 01:10:48.280]  Did not allow him to withdraw.
[01:10:48.280 --> 01:10:49.960]  And he just went into court.
[01:10:49.960 --> 01:10:52.520]  And David gave him a whole bunch of things that he should do.
[01:10:52.520 --> 01:10:57.640]  And the lawyer argued with him that he couldn't, it was over a faulty affidavit.
[01:10:57.640 --> 01:11:02.920]  The very next day, the guy went into court and new judge just got appointed, knew the
[01:11:02.920 --> 01:11:06.280]  lawyer and said, counselor, isn't this a special day for you?
[01:11:06.280 --> 01:11:07.960]  And the lawyer said, well, yes, it is, your honor.
[01:11:07.960 --> 01:11:12.760]  This is my 20th anniversary of practicing law.
[01:11:12.760 --> 01:11:17.520]  And then it got to the issue and David said the lawyer stood up there and he was visibly
[01:11:17.520 --> 01:11:26.280]  shaking and challenged everything David had asked him to 20 years of practice.
[01:11:26.280 --> 01:11:35.040]  And he's visibly shaking because he has to do something that he hasn't done before.
[01:11:35.040 --> 01:11:38.760]  Lawyers are terrified of judges, they're terrified of doing something wrong.
[01:11:38.760 --> 01:11:43.680]  And a lot of times they'll throw you under the bus because they don't want to take the
[01:11:43.680 --> 01:11:46.760]  risk of their career.
[01:11:46.760 --> 01:11:52.480]  But this lawyer was able to do that because the client had given the lawyer plausible
[01:11:52.480 --> 01:11:53.480]  deniability.
[01:11:53.480 --> 01:12:00.360]  The lawyer stepped up in front of the judge and says, your honor, this is the law, this
[01:12:00.360 --> 01:12:02.160]  is the facts, you need to do this.
[01:12:02.160 --> 01:12:03.160]  That's the lawyer.
[01:12:03.160 --> 01:12:09.600]  If the lawyer stepped up in front of the judge and says, your honor, my client says, she's
[01:12:09.600 --> 01:12:13.360]  telling the judge, don't blame me for this.
[01:12:13.360 --> 01:12:17.760]  My client's making me do it.
[01:12:17.760 --> 01:12:25.840]  But I don't want to suggest anything that would put you at odds with your lawyers.
[01:12:25.840 --> 01:12:31.040]  But I really like to sting the judges and the lawyers on the other side.
[01:12:31.040 --> 01:12:36.520]  Well, we've been considering strongly changing lawyers anyhow, so we'll keep that in our
[01:12:36.520 --> 01:12:38.080]  back pocket.
[01:12:38.080 --> 01:12:45.360]  I do appreciate your input on these issues, Randy, and where we're moving from at this
[01:12:45.360 --> 01:12:49.360]  point is trying to get into court and actually get a jury trial.
[01:12:49.360 --> 01:12:53.000]  And the county is trying very hard to keep us from getting in front of the jury with
[01:12:53.000 --> 01:12:54.000]  this issue.
[01:12:54.000 --> 01:13:00.240]  And I'm going to suggest file a counterclaim.
[01:13:00.240 --> 01:13:08.920]  You got some new information that indicates that the county has an ulterior motive for
[01:13:08.920 --> 01:13:17.040]  applying these outrageous restrictions on you, and it's because they're trying to close
[01:13:17.040 --> 01:13:20.720]  you down to satisfy another private interest.
[01:13:20.720 --> 01:13:22.720]  You sue them for that.
[01:13:22.720 --> 01:13:24.200]  Very good.
[01:13:24.200 --> 01:13:25.360]  Raise the stakes.
[01:13:25.360 --> 01:13:28.680]  Now you get your jury trial.
[01:13:28.680 --> 01:13:29.680]  I see.
[01:13:29.680 --> 01:13:31.640]  Well, thanks a whole lot, Randy.
[01:13:31.640 --> 01:13:32.640]  Okay.
[01:13:32.640 --> 01:13:33.640]  Well, good luck.
[01:13:33.640 --> 01:13:34.640]  Thanks a lot.
[01:13:34.640 --> 01:13:35.640]  Okay.
[01:13:35.640 --> 01:13:37.560]  This is Randy Kelton, Weeblow Radio.
[01:13:37.560 --> 01:13:39.400]  We do have our phone lines open.
[01:13:39.400 --> 01:13:41.760]  We'll have them open all night.
[01:13:41.760 --> 01:13:43.480]  So my apologies.
[01:13:43.480 --> 01:13:48.880]  I was supposed to say that when we first came in, but I was kind of too interested in the
[01:13:48.880 --> 01:13:51.280]  subject matter.
[01:13:51.280 --> 01:13:56.280]  So anyway, the one thing I did want to talk about, we did have a victory today.
[01:13:56.280 --> 01:14:03.600]  I kind of mentioned it in passing, is we filed a recension and we've talked about recension
[01:14:03.600 --> 01:14:07.680]  on here before.
[01:14:07.680 --> 01:14:17.000]  There's a recent ruling in the Jasenowski case where the courts were split around the
[01:14:17.000 --> 01:14:24.200]  country on this issue and on the issue of rescission.
[01:14:24.200 --> 01:14:33.000]  Rescission is where you just eliminate the contract.
[01:14:33.000 --> 01:14:39.400]  And the Rescension Procedures Act says that if you don't get all the proper notices, you
[01:14:39.400 --> 01:14:44.440]  can rescind the note within three years.
[01:14:44.440 --> 01:14:45.880]  So we rescinded out of time.
[01:14:45.880 --> 01:14:48.160]  Let me finish the first part.
[01:14:48.160 --> 01:14:49.160]  Within three years.
[01:14:49.160 --> 01:14:52.800]  And once you rescind, both parties must tender.
[01:14:52.800 --> 01:14:59.680]  You tender back to the lender what he gave you and the lender tends back to you what
[01:14:59.680 --> 01:15:00.680]  you gave the lender.
[01:15:00.680 --> 01:15:05.360]  And what the lender was saying is you have to tender first.
[01:15:05.360 --> 01:15:11.440]  And in order to perfect the rescission, you have to sue within the three year time period.
[01:15:11.440 --> 01:15:17.480]  And that's the issue that went to the Supreme and the Supreme said, no, you don't.
[01:15:17.480 --> 01:15:25.080]  But when a notice of rescission is filed by the borrower, rescission is accomplished.
[01:15:25.080 --> 01:15:28.920]  And the bank has to tender first.
[01:15:28.920 --> 01:15:32.560]  That was a holy mackerel.
[01:15:32.560 --> 01:15:40.360]  I don't know who the moron was that got this before the Supreme, who didn't make a deal
[01:15:40.360 --> 01:15:43.720]  and make this go away before it got to the Supreme.
[01:15:43.720 --> 01:15:50.240]  But now that the banks have a ruling against him that is a really big deal, and this is
[01:15:50.240 --> 01:15:56.160]  a unanimous decision, if it's a split decision, then there's a likelihood you may be able
[01:15:56.160 --> 01:15:57.160]  to change it.
[01:15:57.160 --> 01:16:02.120]  But this was unanimous and no way they're going to change this one.
[01:16:02.120 --> 01:16:09.620]  So now if you file a rescission, the bank has to tender to you everything you've given
[01:16:09.620 --> 01:16:15.000]  the bank or raise an objection within 20 days.
[01:16:15.000 --> 01:16:22.100]  If they do neither within 20 days, then you get to maintain the collateral with no further
[01:16:22.100 --> 01:16:24.840]  obligation to the lender.
[01:16:24.840 --> 01:16:30.800]  So that's a really big deal and it's sudden death.
[01:16:30.800 --> 01:16:36.880]  So we filed a rescission out of time after the three years, knowing it was after the
[01:16:36.880 --> 01:16:37.880]  three years.
[01:16:37.880 --> 01:16:41.800]  I'm going to put this up on the other side and demonstrate this is all about politics.
[01:16:41.800 --> 01:16:45.760]  It's not about how the judges might rule.
[01:16:45.760 --> 01:17:00.760]  Hang on, Randy Kelton, Rewire Radio, I call it number 512-646-1984, we'll be right back.
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[01:19:29.440 --> 01:19:43.280]  Okay, we are back, Randy Kelton, Rule of Law Radio, and we're talking about rescission
[01:19:43.280 --> 01:19:46.400]  when we've been out.
[01:19:46.400 --> 01:19:54.840]  We filed a rescission out of time, and this was all about politics, it wasn't about law.
[01:19:54.840 --> 01:20:00.680]  It was about giving the bank a reason to come to the table and talk to us.
[01:20:00.680 --> 01:20:02.640]  We filed the rescission.
[01:20:02.640 --> 01:20:08.760]  The bank treated it as if it were a qualified written request.
[01:20:08.760 --> 01:20:15.560]  That was an oops, so they didn't respond to it within the 30-day time period.
[01:20:15.560 --> 01:20:21.320]  Actually, they took about 45 days, and they responded as if it were a qualified written
[01:20:21.320 --> 01:20:22.320]  request.
[01:20:22.320 --> 01:20:30.960]  After the 21 days, we're prepared to go before the court and claim that rescission was complete
[01:20:30.960 --> 01:20:34.520]  on the 21st day.
[01:20:34.520 --> 01:20:41.320]  They would be likely to say, well, they filed out of time, and we're going to say that the
[01:20:41.320 --> 01:20:48.320]  time limit is not a bar to filing, it's an affirmative defense.
[01:20:48.320 --> 01:20:56.200]  You had an affirmative defense, but you didn't step forward and claim that affirmative defense,
[01:20:56.200 --> 01:20:59.080]  and that's called sitting on your rights.
[01:20:59.080 --> 01:21:06.240]  When you sit on your rights, you're subject to what's called laches.
[01:21:06.240 --> 01:21:12.440]  Laches is what happens when you had a right you could have asserted, but you didn't assert
[01:21:12.440 --> 01:21:18.240]  it in a timely manner, therefore you cannot come now and try to assert it.
[01:21:18.240 --> 01:21:26.240]  In this case, rescission gave them 20 days to assert the rights, and they didn't do so.
[01:21:26.240 --> 01:21:37.800]  Well, since they didn't respond to the rescission, we sent a copy of a quiet title action I was
[01:21:37.800 --> 01:21:40.480]  prepared to file.
[01:21:40.480 --> 01:21:50.800]  In the quiet title action, I maintained that the deed of trust was void as a rescission
[01:21:50.800 --> 01:21:57.760]  was filed, opposing party failed to respond to the rescission within 20 days, and I gave
[01:21:57.760 --> 01:22:00.920]  this statutory time limitations.
[01:22:00.920 --> 01:22:11.440]  I even addressed the fact that the filing was technically out of time by four days,
[01:22:11.440 --> 01:22:15.720]  but that was not a bar to the rescission.
[01:22:15.720 --> 01:22:21.840]  It was an affirmative defense to the rescission, and the bank is subject to laches, so they
[01:22:21.840 --> 01:22:26.960]  cannot bring the affirmative defense, and therefore the deed of trust is void as a matter
[01:22:26.960 --> 01:22:27.960]  of law.
[01:22:27.960 --> 01:22:33.160]  Now, lawyers on the other side are going to say, well, I could beat that in court.
[01:22:33.160 --> 01:22:35.160]  Yeah, they probably could.
[01:22:35.160 --> 01:22:39.480]  I put a cover letter on it, and I addressed exactly that.
[01:22:39.480 --> 01:22:46.080]  There's a good chance the judge is going to rule in your favor if we fight this, but even
[01:22:46.080 --> 01:22:51.440]  if he does, we're going to be in court two or three years on this issue, and while we're
[01:22:51.440 --> 01:22:59.240]  in court, I have a quick claim on the property, I'm going to lease the property out, and since
[01:22:59.240 --> 01:23:07.620]  I have a claim that the deed of trust is void, it would be inappropriate for me to send you
[01:23:07.620 --> 01:23:10.320]  any of the lease money.
[01:23:10.320 --> 01:23:14.520]  If you put this in court for the next four or five years, well, I just collect a couple
[01:23:14.520 --> 01:23:19.760]  grand a month while we're fighting you in court, and then you're likely a good chance
[01:23:19.760 --> 01:23:29.320]  you're losing the end, so instead of that, make me a deal to have a payoff amount on
[01:23:29.320 --> 01:23:39.560]  the property of $167,000, now offered to cure the default at $125,000, let them come back
[01:23:39.560 --> 01:23:40.560]  with a counteroffer.
[01:23:40.560 --> 01:23:49.080]  Well, that was what was in the cover letter, they just called today, they want to talk,
[01:23:49.080 --> 01:24:00.360]  so Wells Fargo blinked, and it does work if we give them an opportunity to come to the
[01:24:00.360 --> 01:24:09.280]  table, and I'm going to say this is an opportunity because far as I can tell, these lawyers do
[01:24:09.280 --> 01:24:17.820]  not want to have these legal fights, that they want easy foreclosures, quick money,
[01:24:17.820 --> 01:24:19.560]  do the deal, go to the next room.
[01:24:19.560 --> 01:24:26.480]  When they get into a legal fight, they get to build their clients, but I suspect these
[01:24:26.480 --> 01:24:33.840]  lawyer groups have a budget from the banks, and if they start breaking the bank's budget,
[01:24:33.840 --> 01:24:37.560]  the bank's going to find somebody else to do their foreclosures.
[01:24:37.560 --> 01:24:43.920]  So they really want these things to go away, however, they can't just go to the bank and
[01:24:43.920 --> 01:24:54.000]  say, I want you to cut these guys a break, give up some of your profits, and generally
[01:24:54.000 --> 01:25:00.880]  they do this with the property, the asset manager, with people getting a short sale,
[01:25:00.880 --> 01:25:06.440]  same position, they go to the asset manager and say, I want you to go to the bank and
[01:25:06.440 --> 01:25:14.880]  ask the bank to forego some of its investors' profits so that we can short sale this property,
[01:25:14.880 --> 01:25:20.120]  and he's going to go to the bean counters and they're going to say, man, I can't do
[01:25:20.120 --> 01:25:21.120]  this.
[01:25:21.120 --> 01:25:26.240]  I've got bank regulators looking over my shoulders, and I've got investors wanting to know where
[01:25:26.240 --> 01:25:27.240]  their profit is.
[01:25:27.240 --> 01:25:34.080]  I can't just give away some of their profits, so you have to give them positive, plausible
[01:25:34.080 --> 01:25:35.080]  deniability.
[01:25:35.080 --> 01:25:42.600]  Now, these lawyers can go to the bank and say, we have a problem here.
[01:25:42.600 --> 01:25:46.040]  These guys are going to sue us, they're suing for quiet title, yeah, we're probably going
[01:25:46.040 --> 01:25:50.480]  to win it in the end, but these guys are savvy.
[01:25:50.480 --> 01:25:54.320]  They know it's going to cost us a lot of money.
[01:25:54.320 --> 01:26:01.040]  So they're saying that if we'll just decrease the amount that we're going to accept for
[01:26:01.040 --> 01:26:07.840]  default, then they'll drop all the suit and stuff, and we can all go home and be happy.
[01:26:07.840 --> 01:26:16.120]  Now they've given the bean counters a calculation, a justification for asking for their investors
[01:26:16.120 --> 01:26:19.880]  to give up part of their profit, because if they don't, it's going to cost them more
[01:26:19.880 --> 01:26:23.960]  in legal fees than what they're being asked to give up, so that's a calculation they can
[01:26:23.960 --> 01:26:27.120]  make.
[01:26:27.120 --> 01:26:34.520]  Then we can get something done and not spend the next four or five years fighting the banks
[01:26:34.520 --> 01:26:39.880]  and being frustrated because the court's rule against you handed a return.
[01:26:39.880 --> 01:26:41.440]  I hope that makes sense.
[01:26:41.440 --> 01:26:47.840]  We've been talking about this kind of thing for a while, and it's actually working, and
[01:26:47.840 --> 01:26:49.160]  it made my day.
[01:26:49.160 --> 01:26:52.000]  We have a caller, Jermaine from Texas.
[01:26:52.000 --> 01:26:54.680]  Hello, Jermaine, what do you have for us today?
[01:26:54.680 --> 01:26:57.400]  Hey, hey, Rainey, how you doing?
[01:26:57.400 --> 01:26:58.400]  Doing good.
[01:26:58.400 --> 01:26:59.400]  Can't give them?
[01:26:59.400 --> 01:27:00.400]  Oh, okay.
[01:27:00.400 --> 01:27:04.320]  Man, it's a pleasure to be on this call, man.
[01:27:04.320 --> 01:27:12.000]  I've been trying to get through for a little long, but I want to kind of...
[01:27:12.000 --> 01:27:15.160]  What do you have for us?
[01:27:15.160 --> 01:27:20.840]  I want to... I got a criminal situation, and it's dealing with my brother.
[01:27:20.840 --> 01:27:21.840]  I sent you an email.
[01:27:21.840 --> 01:27:22.840]  I never got a response.
[01:27:22.840 --> 01:27:27.840]  I don't know if the email ever got to you, but my brother was going through a situation
[01:27:27.840 --> 01:27:30.840]  where it was self-defense, and I'm out of Memphis.
[01:27:30.840 --> 01:27:38.520]  I live in Memphis, Tennessee, and my brother was a former police officer who was no longer
[01:27:38.520 --> 01:27:45.800]  working with the force no more, but he got stopped on a traffic stop.
[01:27:45.800 --> 01:27:52.800]  We've been doing research on the law and stuff for like four years now, and he knew what
[01:27:52.800 --> 01:27:53.800]  to do on a traffic stop.
[01:27:53.800 --> 01:27:56.600]  He was recording and everything.
[01:27:56.600 --> 01:28:04.720]  The officer decided that because he didn't sign the ticket the way the officer wanted
[01:28:04.720 --> 01:28:09.760]  him to do it, he decided to arrest him.
[01:28:09.760 --> 01:28:18.320]  He forced himself in the car, opened the door, and then put my brother under arrest.
[01:28:18.320 --> 01:28:23.880]  When they released the car, which was my car, to his wife, when they released the car to
[01:28:23.880 --> 01:28:32.880]  her, she drove off, but they decided to assault him on the scene, so he requested an ambulance
[01:28:32.880 --> 01:28:40.080]  to come and to check him out and everything, and the ambulance denied him to transport
[01:28:40.080 --> 01:28:42.240]  him to the medical center.
[01:28:42.240 --> 01:28:48.440]  They took him down to the processing area.
[01:28:48.440 --> 01:28:55.040]  When he got down there, the officer decided to dictate to tell him what he wanted him
[01:28:55.040 --> 01:29:01.580]  to do, so he told the officer to leave him alone because they had already beat him up
[01:29:01.580 --> 01:29:02.580]  and everything.
[01:29:02.580 --> 01:29:06.360]  They had already beat him up in the back car, so the officer said, no, you're going to do
[01:29:06.360 --> 01:29:10.320]  what I say, and the officer grabbed him.
[01:29:10.320 --> 01:29:12.160]  Now as far as I know, that is assault.
[01:29:12.160 --> 01:29:18.960]  You can't just touch nobody because you wear a badge, so the officer grabbed him.
[01:29:18.960 --> 01:29:24.400]  When the officer grabbed him, my brother grabbed the officer back, so in the process intake,
[01:29:24.400 --> 01:29:29.680]  he hit the guy three times and knocked him out, and after that they charged him with
[01:29:29.680 --> 01:29:37.520]  assault on the aggravated assault on the police officer, but then they just convicted him
[01:29:37.520 --> 01:29:45.880]  like a couple of days ago on aggravated assault, and it was a marked trial.
[01:29:45.880 --> 01:29:48.240]  They wanted to let discovery come.
[01:29:48.240 --> 01:29:49.720]  Okay, wait, wait, hang on.
[01:29:49.720 --> 01:29:51.040]  We're about to go to break.
[01:29:51.040 --> 01:29:53.440]  Randy Kelton of Wheelbarrow Radio.
[01:29:53.440 --> 01:29:56.360]  Call in number 512-646-1984.
[01:29:56.360 --> 01:29:57.360]  We'll be right back.
[01:29:57.360 --> 01:30:07.040]  An apple a day may keep the doctor away, but did you know there's that candy out there
[01:30:07.040 --> 01:30:09.720]  that may help cure a cough and heal an ulcer?
[01:30:09.720 --> 01:30:10.720]  Hi, Dr. Catherine Albrecht.
[01:30:10.720 --> 01:30:16.440]  Back to tell you about the mystery medicinal candy right after this.
[01:30:16.440 --> 01:30:18.160]  Privacy is under attack.
[01:30:18.160 --> 01:30:22.560]  When you give up data about yourself, you'll never get it back again, and once your privacy
[01:30:22.560 --> 01:30:26.760]  is gone, you'll find your freedoms will start to vanish too.
[01:30:26.760 --> 01:30:32.040]  So protect your rights, say no to surveillance, and keep your information to yourself.
[01:30:32.040 --> 01:30:34.520]  Privacy, it's worth hanging on to.
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[01:30:45.600 --> 01:30:46.720]  It's licorice.
[01:30:46.720 --> 01:30:50.880]  For many Americans, the word conjures up the candy we munched on at the movie theater as
[01:30:50.880 --> 01:30:51.880]  kids.
[01:30:51.880 --> 01:30:54.960]  But did you know that black licorice root can cure a host of illnesses?
[01:30:54.960 --> 01:30:58.600]  Get out your notebook, because the list is long.
[01:30:58.600 --> 01:31:04.080]  Licorice alleviates heartburn, ulcers, bronchitis, sore throat, cough, Addison's disease, and
[01:31:04.080 --> 01:31:10.120]  hepatitis B. It eases the effects of menopause, curbs the parasites that cause malaria, and
[01:31:10.120 --> 01:31:13.640]  has even been prescribed for pesticide poisoning in China.
[01:31:13.640 --> 01:31:18.180]  Just remember that black licorice root is a medicinal herb, not candy, and eating too
[01:31:18.180 --> 01:31:21.680]  much can spike your blood pressure or lead to heart problems.
[01:31:21.680 --> 01:31:24.440]  As with most things in life, moderation is the key.
[01:31:24.440 --> 01:31:31.540]  I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht for StartPage.com, the world's most private search engine.
[01:31:31.540 --> 01:31:36.880]  This is Building 7, a 47-story skyscraper that fell on the afternoon of September 11th.
[01:31:36.880 --> 01:31:39.000]  The government says that fire brought it down.
[01:31:39.000 --> 01:31:43.960]  However, 1,500 architects and engineers concluded it was a controlled demolition.
[01:31:43.960 --> 01:31:46.720]  Over 6,000 of my fellow service members have given their lives.
[01:31:46.720 --> 01:31:49.400]  Thousands of my fellow first responders are dying.
[01:31:49.400 --> 01:31:50.880]  I'm not a conspiracy theorist.
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[01:31:58.520 --> 01:32:01.720]  Go to RememberBuilding7.org today.
[01:32:01.720 --> 01:32:04.120]  Hey, it's Danny here for Hill Country Home Improvements.
[01:32:04.120 --> 01:32:07.120]  Did your home receive hail or wind damage from the recent storms?
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[01:32:10.760 --> 01:32:11.760]  them to pay for it.
[01:32:11.760 --> 01:32:15.360]  Okay, I might be kidding about the chemtrails, but I'm serious about your roof.
[01:32:15.360 --> 01:32:19.180]  That's why you have insurance, and Hill Country Home Improvements can handle the claim for
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[01:32:39.280 --> 01:32:43.640]  Mention the crypto show and get $100 off, and we'll donate another $100 to the Logos
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[01:32:59.160 --> 01:33:01.840]  I mean, I'd actually be kidding about chemtrails.
[01:33:01.840 --> 01:33:05.080]  Looking for some truth?
[01:33:05.080 --> 01:33:10.320]  You found it, logosradionetwork.com.
[01:33:10.320 --> 01:33:26.440]  Okay, we are back, Randy Kelton, Wheelbar Radio, and we're talking to Jermaine from
[01:33:26.440 --> 01:33:27.440]  Texas.
[01:33:27.440 --> 01:33:28.440]  He says Texas, but this is Tennessee.
[01:33:28.440 --> 01:33:31.440]  Are you in Texas or are you in Tennessee, Jermaine?
[01:33:31.440 --> 01:33:33.800]  No, I live in Memphis, Tennessee.
[01:33:33.800 --> 01:33:34.800]  I'm a truck driver right now.
[01:33:34.800 --> 01:33:35.800]  I'm in Kentucky.
[01:33:35.800 --> 01:33:36.800]  I just left Texas yesterday.
[01:33:36.800 --> 01:33:37.800]  Wait a minute.
[01:33:37.800 --> 01:33:38.800]  Wait a minute.
[01:33:38.800 --> 01:33:39.800]  You're a hillbilly truck driver?
[01:33:39.800 --> 01:33:40.800]  Okay.
[01:33:40.800 --> 01:33:46.960]  I'm not going to hold that against you, and I'm not even going to start in with my truck
[01:33:46.960 --> 01:33:47.960]  driver jokes.
[01:33:47.960 --> 01:33:48.960]  Okay.
[01:33:48.960 --> 01:33:50.960]  Your brother has a problem.
[01:33:50.960 --> 01:34:00.160]  It's never good to knock out a police officer, and certainly there's mitigating circumstances
[01:34:00.160 --> 01:34:07.280]  in that he was already under arrest, and the question would be why was the officer messing
[01:34:07.280 --> 01:34:15.160]  with him at the time, but if you knock out a police officer, you can bet they're going
[01:34:15.160 --> 01:34:21.160]  to convict you unless you have a hundred people around you with video cameras.
[01:34:21.160 --> 01:34:25.200]  Right, and we had everything... Go ahead.
[01:34:25.200 --> 01:34:26.200]  Okay.
[01:34:26.200 --> 01:34:33.960]  Once the conviction is done, now you may be able to do some things.
[01:34:33.960 --> 01:34:35.960]  Did he take a deal?
[01:34:35.960 --> 01:34:40.440]  No, he didn't take no deal in it.
[01:34:40.440 --> 01:34:42.840]  Has he appealed to the conviction?
[01:34:42.840 --> 01:34:45.360]  He goes to sentencing date.
[01:34:45.360 --> 01:34:49.440]  They got a sentencing date coming up here soon.
[01:34:49.440 --> 01:35:00.800]  Okay, so now he can file back against them for due process violations.
[01:35:00.800 --> 01:35:06.320]  In a perfect world, he would have been able to beat this on the front end, but if this
[01:35:06.320 --> 01:35:09.840]  were a perfect world, there's a good chance I wouldn't be here.
[01:35:09.840 --> 01:35:16.360]  Actually, I know I wouldn't be here, so it's not perfect.
[01:35:16.360 --> 01:35:20.240]  You knock out a police officer, they're going to convict you.
[01:35:20.240 --> 01:35:21.240]  That's the politics.
[01:35:21.240 --> 01:35:28.000]  Now, once the conviction is done, now he may have the ability to address some due process
[01:35:28.000 --> 01:35:32.920]  issues, and if he gives them enough trouble on the backside, he could well get his sentence
[01:35:32.920 --> 01:35:38.920]  reduced, get probation.
[01:35:38.920 --> 01:35:42.920]  I don't think we'd ever make the conviction go away.
[01:35:42.920 --> 01:35:49.120]  What is it that you want to do?
[01:35:49.120 --> 01:35:57.240]  We wanted this to go away for the simple fact that the court-appointed public defender didn't
[01:35:57.240 --> 01:36:05.400]  even raise the issue of self-defense or anything, or didn't even allow any evidence of our testimony
[01:36:05.400 --> 01:36:10.000]  to even testify on his behalf.
[01:36:10.000 --> 01:36:22.320]  Okay, ineffective counsel is a very good defense, is a very good argument to bring on appeal,
[01:36:22.320 --> 01:36:29.240]  and a court-appointed counsel will always throw you under the bus.
[01:36:29.240 --> 01:36:35.760]  When he filed a whatchacalla said that the guy can represent him or anything, he filed
[01:36:35.760 --> 01:36:41.960]  a motion or a notice to the court saying that he didn't want that guy to represent him.
[01:36:41.960 --> 01:36:53.200]  But just to take you back, this case was going on for... It started back in 2012, and he
[01:36:53.200 --> 01:37:01.520]  made bail, then he had a situation with his daughter's mother in child support where he
[01:37:01.520 --> 01:37:04.320]  got the child support court to back off.
[01:37:04.320 --> 01:37:12.280]  Then his daughter's mother got mad, they was fighting so badly over money that child support
[01:37:12.280 --> 01:37:20.360]  was not enforcing anything against him, or even incarceration because he was high on
[01:37:20.360 --> 01:37:22.560]  child support, but he was taking care of his daughter.
[01:37:22.560 --> 01:37:28.760]  He didn't want the system dictating to how he'd take care of his child and everything,
[01:37:28.760 --> 01:37:34.240]  so he started fighting child support court back, but they backed off.
[01:37:34.240 --> 01:37:38.760]  His daughter's mother got mad and everything, it went to the point that they was fighting
[01:37:38.760 --> 01:37:44.600]  so bad using a child, and then she started making... It came to the point of making
[01:37:44.600 --> 01:37:46.000]  accusations against him that...
[01:37:46.000 --> 01:37:52.400]  Okay, wait a minute, wait a minute, this could be a really, really long story.
[01:37:52.400 --> 01:37:57.800]  Let's get down to a question or something, because my cardboard is filling up.
[01:37:57.800 --> 01:38:08.800]  Okay, so he got two other cases pending that they're trying to really go at him on these
[01:38:08.800 --> 01:38:15.360]  too, but they just convicted him on his officer case, so we're trying to see what we need
[01:38:15.360 --> 01:38:24.240]  to do now to... On appeal or to have this, basically giving us some... I've been here
[01:38:24.240 --> 01:38:28.680]  you're saying like talking about politics and everything, so can we try to put the ball
[01:38:28.680 --> 01:38:31.120]  in our court?
[01:38:31.120 --> 01:38:39.160]  The best way at this point that I could consider is ineffective assistance of counsel.
[01:38:39.160 --> 01:38:45.560]  You need to prepare the case that should have been filed.
[01:38:45.560 --> 01:38:50.360]  You need to look at the law, look at the facts, and make a case for your brother.
[01:38:50.360 --> 01:38:54.760]  He probably can't do it from inside.
[01:38:54.760 --> 01:39:01.600]  Make the case for him, and then use that on an appeal to show ineffective assistance of
[01:39:01.600 --> 01:39:02.600]  counsel.
[01:39:02.600 --> 01:39:13.440]  Okay, now when I was told that on an appeal you can't bring ineffective counsel up on
[01:39:13.440 --> 01:39:14.440]  the first appeal.
[01:39:14.440 --> 01:39:19.720]  No, no, you can't bring new information in the case.
[01:39:19.720 --> 01:39:24.360]  This is not an appeal based on the merits of the case.
[01:39:24.360 --> 01:39:32.000]  This is an appeal based on the failure of your lawyer to adequately adjudicate the case.
[01:39:32.000 --> 01:39:38.680]  The information you're bringing is not coming before the court in terms of a failure or
[01:39:38.680 --> 01:39:43.880]  a mistake on the part of the trial judge.
[01:39:43.880 --> 01:39:48.280]  This is coming in support of your claim of ineffective counsel, so you can bring all
[01:39:48.280 --> 01:39:50.280]  of this.
[01:39:50.280 --> 01:39:53.480]  Okay, okay.
[01:39:53.480 --> 01:40:03.040]  Now we had one judge who recused himself, but this judge was so strong, he was so forceful
[01:40:03.040 --> 01:40:06.920]  that he had put an order out, and we got the order, and we got it on record, and they didn't
[01:40:06.920 --> 01:40:11.760]  know we were recording it, that he had my brother, because every time my brother spoke
[01:40:11.760 --> 01:40:20.600]  out basically pro se, he was ordering him to be quiet because he didn't like his beliefs.
[01:40:20.600 --> 01:40:25.800]  And then when that didn't, he wouldn't be quiet, he had put an order out to have him
[01:40:25.800 --> 01:40:31.120]  put in stun cuffs, and he told him that he was going to send so many votes to his body
[01:40:31.120 --> 01:40:37.720]  that he would hit the floor and water like a fish out of water.
[01:40:37.720 --> 01:40:46.400]  That should be enough to get the trial overturned.
[01:40:46.400 --> 01:40:51.920]  That would be an issue where you would move for disqualification with the judge and due
[01:40:51.920 --> 01:40:54.960]  process, or denied a due process.
[01:40:54.960 --> 01:40:55.960]  Okay.
[01:40:55.960 --> 01:41:06.280]  It would depend, and in saying that, it depends on what the circumstances was.
[01:41:06.280 --> 01:41:08.960]  If your brother was out of control.
[01:41:08.960 --> 01:41:17.240]  No, he was basically, if the judge said something, he was objecting, and he was stating the grounds
[01:41:17.240 --> 01:41:20.920]  why he would object and everything.
[01:41:20.920 --> 01:41:24.520]  When he got done, the judge would say something, and if he didn't like it, he would put it
[01:41:24.520 --> 01:41:29.120]  on the record to object, and the judge told him to be quiet, so the judge made it as if
[01:41:29.120 --> 01:41:31.560]  he was intimidating witnesses and jurors.
[01:41:31.560 --> 01:41:36.560]  But that wasn't the case because that was just a hearing.
[01:41:36.560 --> 01:41:42.120]  He was brought before the court on a hearing, and it wasn't no witness or no jurors around.
[01:41:42.120 --> 01:41:46.400]  It was just the judge and the court, and they was basically bringing him in for hearing
[01:41:46.400 --> 01:41:49.240]  and talking and asking questions or whatever.
[01:41:49.240 --> 01:41:55.800]  He was objecting to things that he didn't agree to what the judge was saying, and the
[01:41:55.800 --> 01:41:56.800]  judge-
[01:41:56.800 --> 01:41:58.800]  Did he have counsel present?
[01:41:58.800 --> 01:42:03.880]  No, he didn't have counsel present.
[01:42:03.880 --> 01:42:10.960]  When did he get counsel?
[01:42:10.960 --> 01:42:15.880]  I can't recall when he got, but I know they forced counsel on him.
[01:42:15.880 --> 01:42:16.880]  Okay.
[01:42:16.880 --> 01:42:23.440]  Well, I used to tell people not to accept counsel, but now I say accept counsel, and
[01:42:23.440 --> 01:42:28.000]  then we'll show you how to handle your lawyer.
[01:42:28.000 --> 01:42:32.840]  Did he bar-grieve his lawyer at all?
[01:42:32.840 --> 01:42:34.440]  Did he bar-grieve his lawyer?
[01:42:34.440 --> 01:42:35.440]  Yeah.
[01:42:35.440 --> 01:42:36.440]  No.
[01:42:36.440 --> 01:42:41.160]  You got to bar-grieve your lawyer a couple of times just to get his attention.
[01:42:41.160 --> 01:42:49.200]  I know this guy, John Dolan, who they put on a case, he was formerly out of Texas.
[01:42:49.200 --> 01:42:53.560]  He got kicked out of the bar association over there because my mom did some background on
[01:42:53.560 --> 01:42:57.480]  him and found out that they had kicked him out over there from practicing law, and he's
[01:42:57.480 --> 01:42:58.480]  up here.
[01:42:58.480 --> 01:43:01.880]  So, I guess we would have to bar-grieve him, huh?
[01:43:01.880 --> 01:43:10.120]  Well, bar-grieving is really, after the trial, it doesn't help much, but during the trial,
[01:43:10.120 --> 01:43:15.120]  that would give him plausible deniability so he could do the right thing because his
[01:43:15.120 --> 01:43:19.720]  client becomes more dangerous to him than the court.
[01:43:19.720 --> 01:43:26.240]  But if he was this barred in Texas, that's good grounds for going after him for lack
[01:43:26.240 --> 01:43:28.120]  of effective counsel.
[01:43:28.120 --> 01:43:32.040]  That's probably your best option to get the conviction overturned.
[01:43:32.040 --> 01:43:34.640]  Okay, cool, cool.
[01:43:34.640 --> 01:43:37.320]  Okay, but I really have to move on.
[01:43:37.320 --> 01:43:40.320]  We've got a whole board full of callers.
[01:43:40.320 --> 01:43:41.320]  Okay.
[01:43:41.320 --> 01:43:46.320]  I got one more thing, situation I want to run by you, and then I'll finish up.
[01:43:46.320 --> 01:43:47.320]  Do you still got these?
[01:43:47.320 --> 01:43:48.320]  Okay.
[01:43:48.320 --> 01:43:49.320]  We're about to go to break.
[01:43:49.320 --> 01:43:50.320]  Okay.
[01:43:50.320 --> 01:43:51.320]  Let's just do it quickly on the other side.
[01:43:51.320 --> 01:43:57.240]  This is Randy Kelton with Radio Caller Number 512-646-1984, and we'll be right back.
[01:43:57.240 --> 01:43:58.240]  Okay.
[01:43:58.240 --> 01:44:03.840]  You feel tired when talking about important topics like money and politics?
[01:44:03.840 --> 01:44:04.840]  Boring.
[01:44:04.840 --> 01:44:07.760]  Are you confused by words like the Constitution or the Federal Reserve?
[01:44:07.760 --> 01:44:08.760]  What?
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[01:44:58.160 --> 01:44:59.920]  and an overall increase in mental functioning.
[01:44:59.920 --> 01:45:04.560]  Are you the plaintiff or defendant in a lawsuit?
[01:45:04.560 --> 01:45:11.320]  Win your case without an attorney with Jurisdictionary, the affordable, easy to understand, 4-CD course
[01:45:11.320 --> 01:45:15.160]  that will show you how in 24 hours, step by step.
[01:45:15.160 --> 01:45:19.040]  If you have a lawyer, know what your lawyer should be doing.
[01:45:19.040 --> 01:45:23.760]  If you don't have a lawyer, know what you should do for yourself.
[01:45:23.760 --> 01:45:28.160]  Lawyers have won with our step by step course, and now you can too.
[01:45:28.160 --> 01:45:34.960]  Jurisdictionary was created by a licensed attorney with 22 years of case winning experience.
[01:45:34.960 --> 01:45:39.480]  Even if you're not in a lawsuit, you can learn what everyone should understand about the
[01:45:39.480 --> 01:45:43.800]  principles and practices that control our American courts.
[01:45:43.800 --> 01:45:49.920]  You'll receive our audio classroom, video seminar, tutorials, forms for civil cases,
[01:45:49.920 --> 01:45:56.680]  pro se tactics, and much more, please visit ruleoflawradio.com and click on the banner
[01:45:56.680 --> 01:45:59.680]  or call toll free, 866-LAW-EZ.
[01:45:59.680 --> 01:46:23.880]  Well, you know karma is lurking around the corner, you better watch your head, get ready
[01:46:23.880 --> 01:46:29.040]  to take, and do it in front of all of you.
[01:46:29.040 --> 01:46:30.040]  Okay.
[01:46:30.040 --> 01:46:31.040]  We are back.
[01:46:31.040 --> 01:46:34.720]  Randy Kelton, Rule of Law Radio, we're talking to Jermaine in Texas, and you had one more
[01:46:34.720 --> 01:46:35.720]  question.
[01:46:35.720 --> 01:46:36.720]  Yes.
[01:46:36.720 --> 01:46:37.720]  Okay.
[01:46:37.720 --> 01:46:38.720]  I have a situation.
[01:46:38.720 --> 01:46:40.720]  I'm going to run through this real quick.
[01:46:40.720 --> 01:46:45.480]  My situation started three years ago on a traffic stop.
[01:46:45.480 --> 01:46:48.840]  I was getting off work, and I went to my mom's house to pick my son up.
[01:46:48.840 --> 01:46:51.080]  At the time, he was six years old.
[01:46:51.080 --> 01:46:53.960]  We was driving out to his house where I was staying.
[01:46:53.960 --> 01:47:02.400]  Okay, when I was driving, I almost got to the house, an officer came out after me and
[01:47:02.400 --> 01:47:03.400]  pulled me over.
[01:47:03.400 --> 01:47:04.400]  Now, I'm a truck driver.
[01:47:04.400 --> 01:47:10.000]  I know that once some blue lights come on, we slow down, put our emergency lights on,
[01:47:10.000 --> 01:47:13.320]  and find a safe location to get off the road and everything.
[01:47:13.320 --> 01:47:14.800]  So I did that.
[01:47:14.800 --> 01:47:20.880]  Well, when the officer got to my car, he ran up on my car with his gun drawn down in my
[01:47:20.880 --> 01:47:25.760]  face, and instantly, I threw my hands up and was like, officer, what's with the guns?
[01:47:25.760 --> 01:47:28.920]  I got my six-year-old son in the car, why are you drawing guns?
[01:47:28.920 --> 01:47:35.680]  You know, and it went from a frantic with my son crying, everything, then they start
[01:47:35.680 --> 01:47:37.680]  calling backup.
[01:47:37.680 --> 01:47:40.600]  And after that, the one guy was able to reach it.
[01:47:40.600 --> 01:47:44.360]  I had my window cracked, but he was able to reach his hand and enough to open my door,
[01:47:44.360 --> 01:47:48.160]  and they pulled me out, beat me up, arrested me.
[01:47:48.160 --> 01:47:49.160]  For what?
[01:47:49.160 --> 01:47:53.240]  The backseat, and this is what I didn't know.
[01:47:53.240 --> 01:47:56.000]  I never knew why he was even pulling me over.
[01:47:56.000 --> 01:47:57.000]  So when they got me in the backseat-
[01:47:57.000 --> 01:48:00.600]  What did they arrest you for?
[01:48:00.600 --> 01:48:03.240]  He said, when I asked him, I said, what am I being arrested for?
[01:48:03.240 --> 01:48:05.240]  He said, for going 10 miles over the speed limit.
[01:48:05.240 --> 01:48:10.200]  I said, I'm going to jail for 10 miles over the speed limit, and then he stopped.
[01:48:10.200 --> 01:48:13.820]  He got out, the supervisor came, because I requested a supervisor.
[01:48:13.820 --> 01:48:15.120]  They all got in the huddle.
[01:48:15.120 --> 01:48:20.080]  He came back in the car and said, you're going to jail for invading.
[01:48:20.080 --> 01:48:21.080]  I said, invading?
[01:48:21.080 --> 01:48:22.080]  What is that?
[01:48:22.080 --> 01:48:23.080]  He said, you didn't stop.
[01:48:23.080 --> 01:48:24.080]  I said, I didn't stop.
[01:48:24.080 --> 01:48:26.760]  I said, well, if I didn't stop my car, who stopped the car then?
[01:48:26.760 --> 01:48:31.360]  And he said, well, you're going to jail for invading.
[01:48:31.360 --> 01:48:35.040]  Did you charge the officer with aggravated assault?
[01:48:35.040 --> 01:48:39.600]  No, I didn't charge the officer with aggravated assault.
[01:48:39.600 --> 01:48:43.880]  At the time, I had got an attorney, and we had went through the preliminary hearing.
[01:48:43.880 --> 01:48:49.520]  We tripped the officer up so bad in the preliminary hearing that they never moved forward to try
[01:48:49.520 --> 01:48:52.960]  to move for an indictment on me.
[01:48:52.960 --> 01:48:57.880]  Now they're trying to move for an indictment on me because of another situation.
[01:48:57.880 --> 01:49:02.880]  I was falsely arrested from a security officer in Walmart.
[01:49:02.880 --> 01:49:10.320]  So now they're trying to move for an indictment, and I'm like, they don't have nothing.
[01:49:10.320 --> 01:49:12.480]  They don't have no case evidence of nothing.
[01:49:12.480 --> 01:49:21.040]  How long ago was the original, what's the statute of limitations on the original charge?
[01:49:21.040 --> 01:49:26.480]  When I looked it up, it was on an invading, it was from two to three years.
[01:49:26.480 --> 01:49:27.480]  Okay.
[01:49:27.480 --> 01:49:30.000]  Has it been three years?
[01:49:30.000 --> 01:49:33.640]  Yeah, my son was six, he's 10 now.
[01:49:33.640 --> 01:49:34.640]  And I think-
[01:49:34.640 --> 01:49:35.640]  Okay.
[01:49:35.640 --> 01:49:40.640]  They're trying to squeeze a deal out of you.
[01:49:40.640 --> 01:49:44.280]  You should have filed aggravated assault against the officer.
[01:49:44.280 --> 01:49:50.640]  The officer pulled a pistol on me, he better have a really good reason.
[01:49:50.640 --> 01:49:56.760]  I'm a combat veteran, and I spent time on the shark into those things.
[01:49:56.760 --> 01:50:00.280]  When you point a gun at me, that's a really big deal.
[01:50:00.280 --> 01:50:06.040]  That's a near death experience from my experience, but I know.
[01:50:06.040 --> 01:50:10.840]  You shouldn't have.
[01:50:10.840 --> 01:50:11.840]  Go ahead.
[01:50:11.840 --> 01:50:12.840]  Go ahead, I'm sorry.
[01:50:12.840 --> 01:50:17.360]  No, I had a recording going at the time, and I could always record every traffic stop,
[01:50:17.360 --> 01:50:21.520]  but when they got me out the car and searched my car and everything, they took the recording
[01:50:21.520 --> 01:50:22.520]  device.
[01:50:22.520 --> 01:50:26.400]  Did you get it back?
[01:50:26.400 --> 01:50:30.800]  I asked where all my property was, it wasn't with my property anything.
[01:50:30.800 --> 01:50:38.520]  They said, oh, they told my car off of public property, private property, not public, private
[01:50:38.520 --> 01:50:39.520]  property.
[01:50:39.520 --> 01:50:48.080]  Well, if it wasn't your private property, they'll get by with that.
[01:50:48.080 --> 01:50:54.600]  If you were under control of your property and you were not on your own property and
[01:50:54.600 --> 01:50:59.960]  they took control away from you, they had to take control of your car to make sure nothing
[01:50:59.960 --> 01:51:01.760]  happened to it.
[01:51:01.760 --> 01:51:02.760]  Okay.
[01:51:02.760 --> 01:51:10.720]  You have way too many issues that are too involved for us to do very quickly.
[01:51:10.720 --> 01:51:16.760]  Can you write me up a timeline of what occurred here?
[01:51:16.760 --> 01:51:21.120]  No explanations, no arguments, just this occurred, this occurred, this occurred, this occurred,
[01:51:21.120 --> 01:51:27.800]  and then send it, email it to me, randy at ruleoflawradio.com, and then call in next
[01:51:27.800 --> 01:51:30.720]  week and we can address this a whole lot better.
[01:51:30.720 --> 01:51:31.720]  Okay.
[01:51:31.720 --> 01:51:35.600]  Like when you said next week, like on the day...
[01:51:35.600 --> 01:51:39.440]  Next Friday, next Friday would be better because that's our four hour show.
[01:51:39.440 --> 01:51:40.440]  Okay.
[01:51:40.440 --> 01:51:41.440]  Okay.
[01:51:41.440 --> 01:51:42.440]  I could do that.
[01:51:42.440 --> 01:51:43.440]  Okay.
[01:51:43.440 --> 01:51:44.440]  And I'll remember you.
[01:51:44.440 --> 01:51:45.440]  I'll make sure I get you out.
[01:51:45.440 --> 01:51:46.440]  Okay.
[01:51:46.440 --> 01:51:47.440]  All right.
[01:51:47.440 --> 01:51:48.440]  Thank you, Randy.
[01:51:48.440 --> 01:51:49.440]  Okay.
[01:51:49.440 --> 01:51:50.440]  Thank you.
[01:51:50.440 --> 01:51:51.440]  Okay.
[01:51:51.440 --> 01:51:52.440]  Now we're going to go to Shaja in New York.
[01:51:52.440 --> 01:51:53.440]  Hello, Ms. Shaja.
[01:51:53.440 --> 01:51:54.440]  Hi, Randy.
[01:51:54.440 --> 01:51:55.440]  How are you?
[01:51:55.440 --> 01:51:56.440]  I am good.
[01:51:56.440 --> 01:51:59.440]  I hear you have news for us.
[01:51:59.440 --> 01:52:00.440]  I have news.
[01:52:00.440 --> 01:52:05.440]  Today, I got the decision finally from the courts.
[01:52:05.440 --> 01:52:14.160]  Of course, they did not grant me the right, they granted the defendant the motion to dismiss,
[01:52:14.160 --> 01:52:17.440]  but I must say a few things that I'm not too upset.
[01:52:17.440 --> 01:52:23.120]  I expected that, of course, and it being that it's a copyright infringement case.
[01:52:23.120 --> 01:52:27.440]  The Second Circuit does not like to...
[01:52:27.440 --> 01:52:32.760]  It's one of these subject matters that really is complicated and they always like...
[01:52:32.760 --> 01:52:34.800]  They know it's going to appeal.
[01:52:34.800 --> 01:52:36.920]  Almost everybody is going to appeal.
[01:52:36.920 --> 01:52:41.640]  Now, the thing is that the defendant originally tried to get that my first...
[01:52:41.640 --> 01:52:44.960]  My case was frivolous and I should get sanctions.
[01:52:44.960 --> 01:52:46.400]  You know what?
[01:52:46.400 --> 01:52:47.400]  He didn't...
[01:52:47.400 --> 01:52:53.040]  I got also a piece of paper, they mentioned that I could file for an appeal.
[01:52:53.040 --> 01:52:58.840]  They didn't give me sanctions, so that's a good thing.
[01:52:58.840 --> 01:53:08.240]  The thing is that they said that there's no claim under VARA for attributing a work that
[01:53:08.240 --> 01:53:09.240]  I didn't create.
[01:53:09.240 --> 01:53:17.320]  They got the VARA law wrong, actually, because you can claim a work that even that they didn't
[01:53:17.320 --> 01:53:20.080]  title, they didn't attribute right.
[01:53:20.080 --> 01:53:25.520]  The judge is not equipped to deal with the Visual Arts Rights Act law, so I know for
[01:53:25.520 --> 01:53:26.960]  a fact that I can appeal.
[01:53:26.960 --> 01:53:33.320]  Now, I do have a track record of appealing in the Second Circuit.
[01:53:33.320 --> 01:53:34.320]  I just want to know...
[01:53:34.320 --> 01:53:35.680]  I mean, there's a couple of other things.
[01:53:35.680 --> 01:53:40.680]  They also tried to say that about the personal jurisdiction over one of the defendants, because
[01:53:40.680 --> 01:53:44.960]  one of them was a company and one of them was a defendant as a person.
[01:53:44.960 --> 01:53:53.120]  I said that their image was proliferated on all kinds of media, television, I roll everywhere
[01:53:53.120 --> 01:54:01.120]  on YouTube, one of the most viral videos ever, and my photograph was infringed on.
[01:54:01.120 --> 01:54:12.360]  Because they publicized it everywhere, the copyright infringement statute, I mean, it
[01:54:12.360 --> 01:54:18.520]  basically encompasses everything domestically in the country.
[01:54:18.520 --> 01:54:29.720]  They said that I didn't cite that the court had personal jurisdiction over this plaintiff,
[01:54:29.720 --> 01:54:32.000]  I mean, over the defendant, I'm sorry.
[01:54:32.000 --> 01:54:36.880]  And then they concluded that my photograph and the alleged infringing images do not share
[01:54:36.880 --> 01:54:37.880]  any meaningful similarities.
[01:54:37.880 --> 01:54:42.360]  Now, I mean, this is a visual arts rights case, and he just threw it out.
[01:54:42.360 --> 01:54:45.840]  He pointed enough differences, but I mean, this is a...
[01:54:45.840 --> 01:54:51.040]  Obviously, he gave me enough leeway, was what I'm trying to say, is to file an appeal.
[01:54:51.040 --> 01:54:55.920]  Now, I have a record of filing an appeal.
[01:54:55.920 --> 01:54:59.080]  I don't know if these people want to go up against me.
[01:54:59.080 --> 01:55:03.160]  I mean, I'll pump it for $100,000, and you know, I'm just...
[01:55:03.160 --> 01:55:07.120]  And of course, he's not from me, not from me, but I'm saying they will end up spending
[01:55:07.120 --> 01:55:14.040]  $100,000 for their lawyer, and you know, they gave me enough leeway to say that the case
[01:55:14.040 --> 01:55:15.040]  was not frivolous.
[01:55:15.040 --> 01:55:18.680]  It just, in his opinion, it didn't have enough...
[01:55:18.680 --> 01:55:24.280]  Have you talked to the other side about a settlement?
[01:55:24.280 --> 01:55:25.280]  I just spoke to them.
[01:55:25.280 --> 01:55:30.880]  I just found out today that I didn't speak to them at all.
[01:55:30.880 --> 01:55:35.680]  I just got the decision today, and I just went through it about an hour ago.
[01:55:35.680 --> 01:55:39.400]  I already knew, because the press already came to me, I already knew what they said
[01:55:39.400 --> 01:55:44.600]  was that the main idea was that they were, that the alleged, that they don't share too
[01:55:44.600 --> 01:55:45.600]  many meaningful similarities.
[01:55:45.600 --> 01:55:46.600]  I mean, that's their opinion, you know?
[01:55:46.600 --> 01:55:51.600]  I mean, of course, their opinion means a lot, and you know, but they left a lot of leeway
[01:55:51.600 --> 01:55:54.600]  for me to kick them, you know?
[01:55:54.600 --> 01:55:56.640]  And so, I didn't...
[01:55:56.640 --> 01:55:57.640]  Should I speak to them?
[01:55:57.640 --> 01:55:58.640]  Is that...
[01:55:58.640 --> 01:56:04.280]  Where am I at now, before I actually agree to, you know, start filing an appeal?
[01:56:04.280 --> 01:56:07.720]  Well, you do a calculation.
[01:56:07.720 --> 01:56:15.440]  If you win the appeal, and it comes back to the trial court, and you retry it in the court,
[01:56:15.440 --> 01:56:22.480]  and you win in the trial court, the other side's going to appeal, and if they lose the
[01:56:22.480 --> 01:56:26.880]  appeal and you win, how much will you get?
[01:56:26.880 --> 01:56:29.760]  How much will it cost you to make that much?
[01:56:29.760 --> 01:56:34.440]  Well, it won't cost me anything, because I'm a pro-tie.
[01:56:34.440 --> 01:56:37.760]  Well, it costs you a lot of time.
[01:56:37.760 --> 01:56:38.760]  Time, time.
[01:56:38.760 --> 01:56:43.840]  Some paper, some ink, you know, stamps, stuff like that, yes.
[01:56:43.840 --> 01:56:44.840]  I mean, you know...
[01:56:44.840 --> 01:56:48.720]  I'm saying do a calculation.
[01:56:48.720 --> 01:56:55.360]  If you could get them to write you a check today, what would be an equitable outcome
[01:56:55.360 --> 01:56:56.360]  for you?
[01:56:56.360 --> 01:57:01.400]  I would take $30,000, you know what I'm saying, like I don't have any problem.
[01:57:01.400 --> 01:57:06.040]  I told them from the beginning, I would say I would make this go away for $30,000, you
[01:57:06.040 --> 01:57:10.280]  know, or $15,000, even, then I was like, yo, do you really want to mess with me?
[01:57:10.280 --> 01:57:13.160]  I mean, I will cost you, and I'm not putting...
[01:57:13.160 --> 01:57:14.160]  Now go back to them.
[01:57:14.160 --> 01:57:25.280]  Now your offer, you need to write an offer, not to the lawyers, but write it to the defendants.
[01:57:25.280 --> 01:57:30.120]  They have a duty to give it to the defendant.
[01:57:30.120 --> 01:57:31.120]  And...
[01:57:31.120 --> 01:57:32.120]  Write it right to the defendant?
[01:57:32.120 --> 01:57:33.120]  Pardon me?
[01:57:33.120 --> 01:57:34.120]  Okay.
[01:57:34.120 --> 01:57:39.280]  Whoever, you know, you're the plaintiff, correct?
[01:57:39.280 --> 01:57:40.280]  Yes.
[01:57:40.280 --> 01:57:41.280]  Okay.
[01:57:41.280 --> 01:57:49.280]  So, write it to the defendant and make an offer to settle.
[01:57:49.280 --> 01:57:54.680]  If you win the appeal and it comes back to the trial court, and then you go to the trial
[01:57:54.680 --> 01:58:00.560]  court and ask the trial court to order mediation, they're likely to do it.
[01:58:00.560 --> 01:58:04.920]  And then you tell them that you asked them to order mediation because you tried to settle
[01:58:04.920 --> 01:58:10.920]  this issue out of court and they refused to negotiate with you.
[01:58:10.920 --> 01:58:16.080]  That's going to leave the trial court unhappy.
[01:58:16.080 --> 01:58:20.280]  The trial court does not like to try issues.
[01:58:20.280 --> 01:58:25.040]  They like to have issues settled, and if you're intractable and won't try to settle, they
[01:58:25.040 --> 01:58:28.160]  like to get the judge's boot up your behind.
[01:58:28.160 --> 01:58:32.720]  So, the best way to get the judge on your side is indicate that you're trying to settle
[01:58:32.720 --> 01:58:33.720]  with them.
[01:58:33.720 --> 01:58:34.720]  Okay.
[01:58:34.720 --> 01:58:36.600]  But I'm not up to the appellate yet.
[01:58:36.600 --> 01:58:39.240]  I didn't even threaten to file an appeal yet.
[01:58:39.240 --> 01:58:40.240]  I just got...
[01:58:40.240 --> 01:58:42.580]  Yeah, but you don't have to do that.
[01:58:42.580 --> 01:58:45.480]  They already knew who they're dealing with.
[01:58:45.480 --> 01:58:46.840]  Exactly.
[01:58:46.840 --> 01:58:50.360]  Everybody expects an appeal.
[01:58:50.360 --> 01:58:55.800]  The Bible remains the most popular book in the world, yet countless readers are frustrated
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[01:59:49.000 --> 02:00:16.000]  You are listening to the Logos Radio Network, logosradionetwork.com.