[00:10.440 --> 00:16.920]  Peace Prize on the inevitability of war and its use as an instrument for peace.
[00:16.920 --> 00:21.380]  Kucinich added the war against Iraq was based on lies.
[00:21.380 --> 00:27.520]  Wars in Afghanistan and Pakistan are based on flawed doctrines of counterinsurgency.
[00:27.520 --> 00:33.180]  A federal judge Thursday found the Defense Department in contempt of court for failing
[00:33.180 --> 00:38.720]  to videotape the testimony of Mohammed al-Adhaqi, a prisoner held at Guantanamo.
[00:38.720 --> 00:45.560]  U.S. District Judge Gladys Kessler demanded a detailed explanation of why the Pentagon
[00:45.560 --> 00:48.800]  failed to conduct the taping as directed.
[00:48.800 --> 00:55.480]  An American woman working for contractor KBR at a U.S. military base in Iraq was reportedly
[00:55.480 --> 01:00.560]  raped and beaten so badly by a base worker she had to be hospitalized.
[01:00.560 --> 01:05.800]  KBR officials declined to provide details Wednesday but confirmed they are cooperating
[01:05.800 --> 01:13.280]  in a military criminal investigation.
[01:13.280 --> 01:19.040]  Bowing to intense public pressure, Goldman Sachs Thursday scaled back plans to distribute
[01:19.040 --> 01:25.480]  at least $16 billion in year-end bonuses, stripping cash awards from 30 top executives
[01:25.480 --> 01:27.880]  in favor of restricted stock.
[01:27.880 --> 01:32.480]  The company said those executives won't be able to sell the stock for five years and
[01:32.480 --> 01:37.960]  could be forced to relinquish it if they engage in improper risk analysis or fail to sufficiently
[01:37.960 --> 01:40.340]  raise concerns about risks.
[01:40.340 --> 01:45.960]  The campaign to restrain executive pay escalated after big investment banks plunged into the
[01:45.960 --> 01:51.280]  risky subprime mortgage market, fueling a housing bubble that triggered the worst economic
[01:51.280 --> 01:54.200]  crisis since the Great Depression.
[01:54.200 --> 01:59.320]  Goldman and other Wall Street firms have been under public pressure to revamp their compensation
[01:59.320 --> 02:06.040]  policies so multi-million dollar bonuses don't encourage risky short-term behavior.
[02:06.040 --> 02:13.200]  Goldman paid back its $10 billion bailout by mid-year, avoiding those restrictions.
[02:13.200 --> 02:19.120]  The House of Representatives Thursday passed a massive spending bill including boosts for
[02:19.120 --> 02:26.200]  domestic agencies and foreign aid, with more than 5,000 back home projects sought by lawmakers.
[02:26.200 --> 02:34.240]  The $1.1 trillion measure would provide $447 billion in operating budgets for 10 cabinet
[02:34.240 --> 02:38.640]  departments, awarding increases averaging almost 10%.
[02:38.640 --> 02:45.280]  In addition, $600 billion is allocated for federal programs such as Medicare and Medicaid.
[02:45.280 --> 02:47.960]  The Senate is expected to pass it this weekend.
[02:47.960 --> 02:54.160]  Blending increases for veterans programs, NASA and the FBI, with a pay raise for federal
[02:54.160 --> 03:01.200]  workers and help for car dealers, the legislation embraces six of the 12 annual appropriations
[03:01.200 --> 03:02.200]  bills.
[03:02.200 --> 03:11.720]  You are listening to the Rule of Law Radio Network at ruleoflawradio.com, live free speech
[03:11.720 --> 03:26.720]  talk radio at its best.
[03:26.720 --> 03:46.040]  Thank you for watching.
[03:46.040 --> 03:50.920]  Bad boys, bad boys, whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?
[03:51.200 --> 03:56.460]  Bad boys, bad boys, whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?
[03:56.880 --> 04:01.760]  When you were eight and you had bad traits You'd go to school and learn the golden rule
[04:02.040 --> 04:07.380]  So why are you acting like a bloody fool if you're getting ah-ah-ah Then ya must get coo-oo
[04:07.640 --> 04:12.620]  Bad boys, bad boys, whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?
[04:12.620 --> 04:28.180]  All right, bad boys, bad boys, what are you going to do when we come for you?
[04:28.180 --> 04:30.580]  This is the rule of law.
[04:30.580 --> 04:39.180]  Randy Kelton, Eddie Craig, Deborah Stevens, tonight we have a very special guest, Michael
[04:39.180 --> 04:44.300]  Maris back by popular demand, but before we go to our guest, just wanted to make a couple
[04:44.300 --> 04:46.220]  of reports.
[04:46.220 --> 04:48.660]  Last night was an incredible event.
[04:48.660 --> 04:55.300]  We had so many people out, more than 400 people were out at the G. Edward Griffin event, and
[04:55.300 --> 04:58.260]  it was just a wonderful situation.
[04:58.260 --> 05:03.220]  There were so many people that showed up to support, and the support is overwhelming for
[05:03.220 --> 05:04.700]  90.1.
[05:04.700 --> 05:13.380]  We have over 350 letters now at this point from the listeners, which is just astounding,
[05:13.380 --> 05:23.060]  and we have received approximately $2,200 in donations so far for the 90.1 legal fund.
[05:23.060 --> 05:25.300]  So this is wonderful news.
[05:25.300 --> 05:26.300]  Please keep it up.
[05:26.300 --> 05:27.980]  Please keep up the donations.
[05:27.980 --> 05:34.700]  Please keep up the letters because we may have some very steep expenses coming up.
[05:34.700 --> 05:38.820]  We may have to fly to Washington, D.C. to fight this.
[05:38.820 --> 05:44.340]  Worst case scenario, worst comes to worst, there's going to be upwards of $20,000 in
[05:44.340 --> 05:47.340]  fines and having to fight this.
[05:47.340 --> 05:51.460]  So people, please keep up your support.
[05:51.460 --> 05:55.340]  That amount of money for the fines is hopefully far off into the future.
[05:55.340 --> 05:59.740]  Hopefully it will never come to pass, but we do still need your support, so please keep
[05:59.740 --> 06:00.740]  it up.
[06:00.740 --> 06:01.740]  This is wonderful news.
[06:01.740 --> 06:06.740]  We've got a lot on the horizon of how we're going to beat up the FCC in court and the
[06:06.740 --> 06:10.380]  agents personally, but we're going to save that for a different show.
[06:10.380 --> 06:12.380]  Just wanted to give that report.
[06:12.380 --> 06:15.740]  And now we have Mr. Michael Maris.
[06:15.740 --> 06:22.220]  And for those of you who have heard our last show, as promised, we now have it set up on
[06:22.220 --> 06:30.260]  the Rule of Law Radio website, ruleoflawradio.com, to purchase Michael Maris' package of how
[06:30.260 --> 06:35.340]  to basically beat up the debt collectors in court.
[06:35.340 --> 06:37.540]  Proven method, the man is one.
[06:37.540 --> 06:41.220]  Many cases in federal court settle out of court, help many people.
[06:41.220 --> 06:46.060]  So if you scroll down to the middle of the home page where the banner ads are, you'll
[06:46.060 --> 06:48.740]  see a blue banner.
[06:48.740 --> 06:53.180]  And you click on that banner, it'll go to another page on ruleoflawradio.com where it
[06:53.180 --> 07:01.100]  has more information and a PayPal button where you can purchase the CD of materials and also
[07:01.100 --> 07:04.460]  Michael Maris' email address.
[07:04.460 --> 07:06.740]  He does personal consultations as well.
[07:06.740 --> 07:09.380]  So Michael, thank you and welcome to the show.
[07:09.380 --> 07:10.380]  Thank you, Debra.
[07:10.380 --> 07:11.380]  Good to be here.
[07:11.380 --> 07:12.380]  Good evening, everyone.
[07:12.380 --> 07:13.380]  Nice to be back.
[07:13.380 --> 07:21.900]  I've had an interesting past couple of months, nothing exciting on my end.
[07:21.900 --> 07:26.380]  I don't get anybody bothering me, but a few things I want to set straight before we get
[07:26.380 --> 07:30.220]  into this is, first of all, I am not an attorney.
[07:30.220 --> 07:31.220]  I'll repeat that.
[07:31.220 --> 07:36.100]  I am not an attorney and I am not giving legal advice to anyone.
[07:36.100 --> 07:41.860]  The information I provide is from my own personal experience in the courts and also from working
[07:41.860 --> 07:47.460]  with other people who have gotten in trouble and needed some help and needed to learn how
[07:47.460 --> 07:49.340]  to do this stuff.
[07:49.340 --> 07:54.380]  So with that said, we have a variety of things we can talk about.
[07:54.380 --> 08:00.060]  Certainly we can talk about the debt collectors and, as Debra said, that's on the disk now
[08:00.060 --> 08:07.380]  and that disk, and I'll talk a little bit about it, will actually get you into the federal
[08:07.380 --> 08:14.620]  court to what they call a Rule 26-F. That's part of the federal rules of civil procedure.
[08:14.620 --> 08:23.140]  Rule 26-F means you're going to trial and that disk will get you there and at that point
[08:23.140 --> 08:27.140]  you're going to go into what they call discovery.
[08:27.140 --> 08:29.740]  Now a lot of things happened before that.
[08:29.740 --> 08:35.160]  There's a 50-50 chance that prior to even going into that federal court, you'll get
[08:35.160 --> 08:40.760]  a contact from the company, outfit, whatever you want to call them, that you're going after
[08:40.760 --> 08:44.300]  offering to try to settle before they go into that federal court because it costs them a
[08:44.300 --> 08:49.820]  ton of money and that's what this whole thing is about is money, always is.
[08:49.820 --> 08:50.820]  Right.
[08:50.820 --> 08:55.580]  And Michael, before we start getting into the content, why don't you, for maybe some
[08:55.580 --> 08:59.900]  of the listeners who may be new, who may not have heard the last time you were on the show
[08:59.900 --> 09:05.380]  with us, give us a little bit of your background and how you got into this.
[09:05.380 --> 09:10.220]  What prompted you to go down this path of doing all the research that you've done to
[09:10.220 --> 09:14.860]  learn what you've learned concerning how to beat up these debt collectors?
[09:14.860 --> 09:15.860]  Oh, sure.
[09:15.860 --> 09:16.860]  Not a problem.
[09:16.860 --> 09:26.740]  By trade, I'm an electronics engineer, I am a BSEE and back around 2002, I went through
[09:26.740 --> 09:34.220]  divorce and, of course, everything changes when that happens and I was trying to move
[09:34.220 --> 09:42.620]  on with my life at that time and credit got messed up, couldn't get things fixed, couldn't
[09:42.620 --> 09:43.620]  make deals.
[09:43.620 --> 09:49.180]  Oh, yeah, you can pay us, but we're going to keep that information, the derogatory information
[09:49.180 --> 09:51.020]  on your credit reports.
[09:51.020 --> 09:52.020]  Why?
[09:52.020 --> 09:56.220]  Well, we have to do, we can't remove it, that's the standard response.
[09:56.220 --> 09:58.660]  We can't get it out of there.
[09:58.660 --> 09:59.660]  Okay.
[09:59.660 --> 10:03.900]  Well, folks, when you're dealing with these creditors and debt collectors, you're dealing
[10:03.900 --> 10:10.380]  with clerks and clerks don't have a clue as to what the law is and what can be done and
[10:10.380 --> 10:12.660]  what can't be done.
[10:12.660 --> 10:18.340]  This got me motivated to find out how to fix these problems and two of the things that
[10:18.340 --> 10:25.340]  are very important to learn in this process is the Fair Credit Reporting Act and the Debt
[10:25.340 --> 10:26.940]  Collection Practices Act.
[10:26.940 --> 10:32.260]  These are federal laws that are on the books and, interesting enough, the laws are there
[10:32.260 --> 10:36.660]  to protect the consumer, but they're not consumer laws.
[10:36.660 --> 10:43.540]  They're laws that say what these creditors and debt collectors and lenders are supposed
[10:43.540 --> 10:49.820]  to do when challenged and, of course, when you're dealing with multi-billion dollar and
[10:49.820 --> 10:53.900]  multi-million dollar corporations, you know, it's like talk to the wall.
[10:53.900 --> 10:56.620]  They won't pay any attention to you, you know.
[10:56.620 --> 11:01.980]  You owe this money, you owe this debt, you had this account, et cetera, et cetera.
[11:01.980 --> 11:07.260]  So by learning the Fair Credit and the Debt Collection, I was able to get them into federal
[11:07.260 --> 11:12.220]  court and the whole situation changes there.
[11:12.220 --> 11:15.700]  Everything kind of comes to a stop.
[11:15.700 --> 11:22.060]  Their attorneys have the powers to make things happen with their clients and make them happen
[11:22.060 --> 11:24.500]  instantaneously.
[11:24.500 --> 11:27.660]  I've been in, you know, in some of the major banks.
[11:27.660 --> 11:34.420]  I've been in one time so far with the credit union, excuse me, credit bureaus.
[11:34.420 --> 11:39.980]  It's amazing what you can do when you're a plaintiff in one of these cases to get their
[11:39.980 --> 11:41.540]  attention.
[11:41.540 --> 11:47.900]  So basically, I learned this stuff, went into the courts, and one of my very first cases
[11:47.900 --> 11:52.580]  was and everybody gets a chuckle on it about it because I talked about it the last time
[11:52.580 --> 11:56.140]  I was on was the Mexican taxes.
[11:56.140 --> 11:59.580]  And now everybody's saying, what the heck's Mexican taxes got to do with this?
[11:59.580 --> 12:03.740]  And that was kind of my attitude and that was the first case I brought into federal
[12:03.740 --> 12:04.740]  court.
[12:04.740 --> 12:12.980]  I had worked for a U.S. company in Mexico and I was there when 9-11 hit and I was crossing
[12:12.980 --> 12:20.460]  the border every day back and forth from Arizona to Mexico and the trip got to be some days,
[12:20.460 --> 12:25.300]  four hours to get back into the United States and, you know, after putting in a nine-hour
[12:25.300 --> 12:29.980]  day, it just got really tiresome after about a year of waiting and trying to get back in
[12:29.980 --> 12:34.460]  as opposed to before 9-11 when it was a 10-minute trip.
[12:34.460 --> 12:42.940]  Anyhow, I got a position with another company and I left the company that I worked for and
[12:42.940 --> 12:44.140]  I gave them notice.
[12:44.140 --> 12:50.420]  I did everything properly and six months after I left, they sent me a notice that I owed
[12:50.420 --> 12:59.020]  them approximately $3,500 in Mexican taxes that they had paid for me.
[12:59.020 --> 13:05.020]  And I checked my papers, my agreements with them for this position and here's this document
[13:05.020 --> 13:10.220]  that says upon termination or leaving the company, any monies owed to the company would
[13:10.220 --> 13:12.500]  be deducted from your final paycheck.
[13:12.500 --> 13:17.660]  Okay, you know, so I guess the question I raised at that time is why the heck didn't
[13:17.660 --> 13:18.660]  you do it?
[13:18.660 --> 13:23.020]  And I'm using mild language here because I don't want to offend anybody.
[13:23.020 --> 13:26.060]  So why the heck didn't you deduct it out of my paycheck?
[13:26.060 --> 13:28.340]  I don't get it, okay.
[13:28.340 --> 13:33.660]  Well, they decided they were going to be stupid and they turned it over to a commercial collection
[13:33.660 --> 13:40.700]  agency to collect from me and this commercial collection agency was out of Kentucky and
[13:40.700 --> 13:46.660]  I immediately got them on several violations of the Debt Collection Practices Act.
[13:46.660 --> 13:51.860]  Actually I got them on, I think it was six at the time, so I had them at $1,000 apiece
[13:51.860 --> 13:59.420]  per violation of $6,000 in violations and of course they're trying to collect $3,500.
[13:59.420 --> 14:03.420]  They then managed, you know, I challenged them on that, I told them that if you don't
[14:03.420 --> 14:07.620]  resolve this we're going to go into court and all of a sudden they disappeared and a
[14:07.620 --> 14:09.660]  lot of times they will.
[14:09.660 --> 14:14.220]  You send them notice of a pending lawsuit, which I'm always the nice guy, I always give
[14:14.220 --> 14:19.820]  them a chance to back out, fix the problem and go away.
[14:19.820 --> 14:25.340]  And a lot of times you'll get a letter back immediately saying, oh, we will return this
[14:25.340 --> 14:28.460]  to the original creditor, we ain't going to be bothering you anymore.
[14:28.460 --> 14:30.460]  Well, that's good.
[14:30.460 --> 14:33.340]  The only problem is you've got a couple courses of action here.
[14:33.340 --> 14:36.820]  One, you broke the law and I can prove it, I can take you into federal court, I don't
[14:36.820 --> 14:40.740]  care if you send it back to the creditor or not.
[14:40.740 --> 14:47.100]  And number two is, yeah, they can send it back to the creditor, but here's the killer.
[14:47.100 --> 14:51.860]  What do you do to stop it from going to another debt collector and six months or a year or
[14:51.860 --> 14:55.700]  three years or five years down the road you get a notice from a debt collector saying,
[14:55.700 --> 14:58.660]  hey, you owe us $3,500, we're coming after you.
[14:58.660 --> 14:59.660]  How do you stop that?
[14:59.660 --> 15:02.660]  That's the big question.
[15:02.660 --> 15:09.940]  Anyhow, they managed to turn it over to an attorney where I lived and the attorney sent
[15:09.940 --> 15:15.420]  me a letter, long story short, he committed several violations of the Debt Collection
[15:15.420 --> 15:16.420]  Practices Act.
[15:16.420 --> 15:22.500]  You know, I asked him to validate the debt, which is in that disk, by the way, there's
[15:22.500 --> 15:27.780]  a good validation letter in there, proved to me I owe something.
[15:27.780 --> 15:32.580]  Just don't come along and say, hey, you owe this money, who the heck are you?
[15:32.580 --> 15:34.260]  And that's what these debt collectors do.
[15:34.260 --> 15:37.220]  They call you up and they tell you all this money, you better pay it or we're going to
[15:37.220 --> 15:38.220]  sue you.
[15:38.220 --> 15:39.220]  We're taking the court.
[15:39.220 --> 15:42.060]  They call you 10 times a day.
[15:42.060 --> 15:47.260]  This disk shows you how to stop all that stuff pretty quick, okay?
[15:47.260 --> 15:51.940]  And the point is, you want them to call you because once you know the 18 questions to
[15:51.940 --> 15:57.340]  ask them, you're going to be racking up violations on these guys left and right.
[15:57.340 --> 16:01.100]  Again, you're dealing with clerks who don't know the law and really don't give a darn
[16:01.100 --> 16:02.180]  about the law.
[16:02.180 --> 16:05.660]  They're there trying to make a living, they're on straight commission.
[16:05.660 --> 16:09.700]  They get 30% of what they try to collect from you.
[16:09.700 --> 16:17.740]  Anyhow, this lawyer messed up pretty much and, you know, I asked him for validation
[16:17.740 --> 16:24.220]  and he sent me faxes, copies of copies of copies of copies of faxes in Spanish, allegedly
[16:24.220 --> 16:27.180]  saying that this is why you owe the $3,500.
[16:27.180 --> 16:33.380]  Okay, well, that's a real problem there because we're in the United States.
[16:33.380 --> 16:36.940]  Okay, listen, hold that thought, Mike.
[16:36.940 --> 16:37.940]  We're going to break.
[16:37.940 --> 16:45.060]  We're with our very special guest, Michael Meares, who's going to teach us how to beat
[16:45.060 --> 16:49.900]  up these debt collectors in court for breaking the law and try and take advantage of us.
[16:49.900 --> 16:50.900]  We'll be right back.
[16:50.900 --> 17:00.300]  The rule of law.
[17:00.300 --> 17:03.900]  You feel tired when talking about important topics like money and politics?
[17:03.900 --> 17:07.660]  Are you confused by words like the Constitution or the Federal Reserve?
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[17:12.500 --> 17:17.980]  Hi, my name is Steve Holt and like millions of other Americans, I was diagnosed with stupidity
[17:17.980 --> 17:19.180]  at an early age.
[17:19.180 --> 17:23.180]  I had no idea that the number one cause of the disease is found in almost every home
[17:23.180 --> 17:25.260]  in America, the television.
[17:25.260 --> 17:30.300]  Unfortunately, that puts most Americans at risk of catching stupidity, but there is hope.
[17:30.300 --> 17:34.060]  The staff at Brave New Books have helped me and thousands of other Foxaholics suffering
[17:34.060 --> 17:38.980]  from sports zombieism recover, and because of Brave New Books, I now enjoy reading and
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[17:50.660 --> 17:54.700]  or visit them at 1904Guadalupe or bravenewbookstore.com.
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[17:58.140 --> 18:26.700]  and an overall increase in mental functioning.
[18:26.700 --> 18:28.660]  Okay, we are back with Michael Maris.
[18:28.660 --> 18:32.660]  All right, and you were talking about the 18 questions.
[18:32.660 --> 18:33.660]  Please go ahead.
[18:33.660 --> 18:40.100]  The 18 questions are on the disk and the biggest problem people have with these phone calls
[18:40.100 --> 18:43.980]  is they don't know what to do when these debt collectors call up.
[18:43.980 --> 18:49.540]  A lot of people won't answer their own phone because they can see the caller ID come up
[18:49.540 --> 18:51.460]  and I mean, that's no way to live.
[18:51.460 --> 18:53.660]  That's no way to live.
[18:53.660 --> 18:58.340]  And you've got to learn how to do this stuff and you'll stop them pretty quick.
[18:58.340 --> 19:01.780]  The 18 questions are pretty simple.
[19:01.780 --> 19:05.860]  They've got to give you specific information, things they must do when they're talking to
[19:05.860 --> 19:10.540]  you and nine out of ten times they don't, they rack up violations.
[19:10.540 --> 19:16.380]  But it's really, once you learn how to do it, it's really simple.
[19:16.380 --> 19:21.860]  You learn this stuff one time, it's the same in every case.
[19:21.860 --> 19:26.900]  Writing changes, they'll come back, if you get them into federal court, they always come
[19:26.900 --> 19:32.660]  back and the lawyers every time will come in and say, well, you have this credit card,
[19:32.660 --> 19:33.660]  so what?
[19:33.660 --> 19:39.580]  Well, you owe this money, so what?
[19:39.580 --> 19:40.820]  They don't get it.
[19:40.820 --> 19:50.420]  If you go read the law of the law that the creditor or the debt collectors have to follow,
[19:50.420 --> 19:56.180]  there's nothing in those laws that say if you owe $1,000, you can't dispute it.
[19:56.180 --> 20:00.420]  There's nothing in those laws that says if you owe a million dollars, you can't dispute
[20:00.420 --> 20:01.420]  it.
[20:01.420 --> 20:07.060]  There is nothing in those laws that talks about money or money's owed, not a word about
[20:07.060 --> 20:08.060]  money.
[20:08.060 --> 20:12.420]  It's what they're supposed to do when they're challenged and they don't do it because they're
[20:12.420 --> 20:13.900]  simply arrogant.
[20:13.900 --> 20:19.160]  Again, you're dealing with multi-billion dollar corporations, they've got millions of customers
[20:19.160 --> 20:25.460]  and you're this one little guy that comes along and starts giving them a hard time.
[20:25.460 --> 20:30.340]  So until you get them into that federal court, you don't have equal footing.
[20:30.340 --> 20:35.860]  Get back to this lawyer that was after me, he screwed up several times, I immediately
[20:35.860 --> 20:47.340]  got four violations under debt collection practices act on him and I hadn't heard from
[20:47.340 --> 20:50.900]  him for several months and I sent him a letter and I said, hey, I got these four violations,
[20:50.900 --> 20:55.100]  if you don't fix the problem, I'm going to file in federal court.
[20:55.100 --> 20:59.340]  He sent me another letter back and he said, oh yeah, well, you know, I tried calling you
[20:59.340 --> 21:03.060]  four different times on a specific date and he signed it.
[21:03.060 --> 21:08.740]  Well, the problem with that is in our validation letter, there's what is called a limited cease
[21:08.740 --> 21:11.140]  and desist.
[21:11.140 --> 21:16.260]  Don't call me at home or at work.
[21:16.260 --> 21:20.700]  Simply contact me by U.S. mail at home.
[21:20.700 --> 21:24.740]  He writes a letter in and says, I called you on such and such a day and he signs a darn
[21:24.740 --> 21:25.740]  thing.
[21:25.740 --> 21:27.580]  Well, that's like an admitted confession.
[21:27.580 --> 21:30.300]  He just violated the limited cease and desist.
[21:30.300 --> 21:31.300]  Four more violations.
[21:31.300 --> 21:34.700]  Well, now I got him on 8,000.
[21:34.700 --> 21:35.700]  No responses.
[21:35.700 --> 21:38.060]  Okay, well, you're screwing with the wrong guy.
[21:38.060 --> 21:39.060]  Excuse the English.
[21:39.060 --> 21:46.340]  Took him into federal court, took about two months to settle.
[21:46.340 --> 21:50.060]  The judge ordered a good faith conference between the plaintiff and the defendant.
[21:50.060 --> 21:57.580]  We went through, they have to, some states and some courts, when you sue an attorney,
[21:57.580 --> 21:59.660]  they can't represent themselves in the court.
[21:59.660 --> 22:02.980]  They've got to go get one of their buddies to take care of them.
[22:02.980 --> 22:05.860]  Another interesting fact.
[22:05.860 --> 22:12.660]  So he got this attorney and we met and learning the stuff and knowing what it's like to deal
[22:12.660 --> 22:13.660]  with attorneys.
[22:13.660 --> 22:17.340]  And, you know, we've all heard the nasty remarks about if their lips are moving.
[22:17.340 --> 22:21.140]  I won't say the whole thing, but we've all heard that.
[22:21.140 --> 22:25.340]  Well, you're not going to do that with me.
[22:25.340 --> 22:30.940]  When I got in touch with the attorney or he got in touch with me, I forget now.
[22:30.940 --> 22:34.740]  We agreed to meet and, of course, the first thing he wanted me to do was come to his office.
[22:34.740 --> 22:37.940]  I'm not coming to your office, you know.
[22:37.940 --> 22:44.740]  I'm in your office and all of a sudden you get a bug up your nose and you think I'm making
[22:44.740 --> 22:49.740]  threatening remarks or I become aggressive and you call the police and you have me arrested
[22:49.740 --> 22:51.980]  and removed, okay?
[22:51.980 --> 22:52.980]  Why give them that chance?
[22:52.980 --> 22:57.780]  And I mean, I've never had that happen, but I don't trust them.
[22:57.780 --> 23:04.180]  So I said, what we'll do is we'll meet at the local library on neutral ground.
[23:04.180 --> 23:09.100]  And I think it cost me 20 bucks for half a day at the library and you get the big oak
[23:09.100 --> 23:14.940]  table with the mahogany table, whatever it was, with all the chairs around it.
[23:14.940 --> 23:16.620]  And the lawyer walked in.
[23:16.620 --> 23:19.420]  He finally showed up.
[23:19.420 --> 23:25.040]  I introduced myself and then I introduced the young lady that was sitting at the table
[23:25.040 --> 23:27.700]  next to me.
[23:27.700 --> 23:35.700]  And her last name was Rose, R-O-S-E, and she belonged to a prominent stenographer organization.
[23:35.700 --> 23:38.820]  He didn't see her machine under the table.
[23:38.820 --> 23:43.540]  And I introduced him to her and I said, this is Ms. Rose.
[23:43.540 --> 23:46.380]  She'll be taking the minutes of the meeting.
[23:46.380 --> 23:52.740]  Well, he got all pumped up, threw his books down, wiped his hand, never forget it.
[23:52.740 --> 23:54.300]  She can't be here.
[23:54.300 --> 23:55.700]  Why?
[23:55.700 --> 23:56.700]  She just can't be here.
[23:56.700 --> 23:57.700]  So I started calling the judge.
[23:57.700 --> 24:08.900]  He calls Judge Proctor, my first case, folks, in pacer, calls the judge, judge tells a three-way.
[24:08.900 --> 24:12.660]  I had gotten in the guy's face about his client not being there.
[24:12.660 --> 24:17.060]  First thing he said to the judge was, he's asking for the client, your honor, blah, blah,
[24:17.060 --> 24:18.060]  blah, blah.
[24:18.060 --> 24:21.420]  The judge told me, Mr. Maris, you know, the lawyer's representing him.
[24:21.420 --> 24:22.820]  The client doesn't have to be there.
[24:22.820 --> 24:24.260]  You can talk to the attorney.
[24:24.260 --> 24:26.340]  Very good, your honor.
[24:26.340 --> 24:29.260]  And then he starts with the stenographer.
[24:29.260 --> 24:33.900]  And your honor, he's got a stenographer here.
[24:33.900 --> 24:37.020]  And Judge Proctor says, oh, that's okay.
[24:37.020 --> 24:38.020]  I'll allow that.
[24:38.020 --> 24:40.020]  You just tell her she's a deputy clerk of the court.
[24:40.020 --> 24:42.020]  She's to keep the minutes.
[24:42.020 --> 24:45.500]  I always like to throw in my little buzzer.
[24:45.500 --> 24:46.500]  So much for being an attorney.
[24:46.500 --> 24:47.500]  Now he's got to tell the truth.
[24:47.500 --> 24:48.500]  Ain't that a son of a gun?
[24:48.500 --> 24:53.500]  Because everything he's going to say is going to be written down.
[24:53.500 --> 24:59.220]  Anyhow, second meeting, this went on about a month later.
[24:59.220 --> 25:00.540]  We agreed to have another meeting.
[25:00.540 --> 25:05.420]  We had a talk in the first meeting for about 45 minutes or so, discussed the case, what
[25:05.420 --> 25:06.420]  was going on.
[25:06.420 --> 25:12.340]  He was going to take everything back to his client, the attorney.
[25:12.340 --> 25:14.340]  And we agreed to meet in one month.
[25:14.340 --> 25:18.260]  We met the following month, same location, same place, same stenographer.
[25:18.260 --> 25:19.260]  He'd come in.
[25:19.260 --> 25:22.980]  We talked about the case for 45 minutes, sat across the table from him.
[25:22.980 --> 25:26.140]  And he said, we'd like to make an offer to settle with you.
[25:26.140 --> 25:27.140]  Okay.
[25:27.140 --> 25:28.140]  I'm listening.
[25:28.140 --> 25:31.140]  Made an offer to settle.
[25:31.140 --> 25:32.980]  It was acceptable.
[25:32.980 --> 25:35.860]  And of course, you know, we're talking money here, folks.
[25:35.860 --> 25:39.580]  We're not talking a handshake, all right?
[25:39.580 --> 25:44.300]  They agreed to pay X amount of dollars, and I cannot discuss the amount because you will
[25:44.300 --> 25:48.060]  do what they call a settlement agreement.
[25:48.060 --> 25:55.060]  And in that settlement agreement was a confidentiality clause that says, I can't go to the newspapers,
[25:55.060 --> 26:00.580]  I can't go to the TV, I can't go to the internet and blast this all around and name names and
[26:00.580 --> 26:03.540]  what they paid and so on and so forth.
[26:03.540 --> 26:08.500]  His words to me, and I know Deborah always gets a chuckle out of this, we don't want
[26:08.500 --> 26:14.420]  to see it appear in tomorrow's newspaper.
[26:14.420 --> 26:16.420]  You remember it, Deborah?
[26:16.420 --> 26:17.420]  Yes.
[26:17.420 --> 26:18.420]  Okay.
[26:18.420 --> 26:28.140]  Basically said that we don't want to see some beach bum pro se litigant beat the attorney.
[26:28.140 --> 26:29.140]  Right.
[26:29.140 --> 26:33.340]  The exact words to me, folks, the exact words.
[26:33.340 --> 26:36.100]  That wasn't part of the non-disclosure agreement, I suppose.
[26:36.100 --> 26:39.100]  That was not part of the non-disclosure agreement.
[26:39.100 --> 26:40.100]  No, no.
[26:40.100 --> 26:41.100]  Okay.
[26:41.100 --> 26:48.220]  Well, at that point, you know, we agreed and it was my first case and I was on a learning
[26:48.220 --> 26:49.220]  curve.
[26:49.220 --> 26:53.500]  I made a little mistake, which got straightened out a little later.
[26:53.500 --> 26:58.340]  Turned the sonographer off and we sat there and discussed the case.
[26:58.340 --> 27:04.060]  And you know, a couple of things I asked him was, you know, I was anxious to get into interrogatories
[27:04.060 --> 27:09.340]  because I wanted to know, interrogatories, by the way, is part of the discovery process
[27:09.340 --> 27:11.700]  is where you get to ask questions.
[27:11.700 --> 27:15.700]  In federal court, you can ask 30 questions to the defendant.
[27:15.700 --> 27:21.140]  Now, this doesn't include admissions and denials, okay?
[27:21.140 --> 27:26.220]  But one of the questions I told Laura was going to ask you is, what is your authority
[27:26.220 --> 27:29.860]  to collect Mexican taxes?
[27:29.860 --> 27:35.060]  The next question would have been, what is your authority to collect taxes for anybody?
[27:35.060 --> 27:38.780]  And the third question would have been, produce the documents that show you're allowed to
[27:38.780 --> 27:40.380]  collect taxes.
[27:40.380 --> 27:44.300]  Well, he didn't have any answer for that.
[27:44.300 --> 27:49.260]  Kind of shook his head and yeah, you know, I agree, but he says, I have to tell you,
[27:49.260 --> 27:53.140]  you had us on four counts that we had no defense for.
[27:53.140 --> 27:54.500]  I'll repeat that.
[27:54.500 --> 27:59.180]  You had us on four counts that you had no defense for.
[27:59.180 --> 28:05.740]  Now, I had taken them into federal court for $8,000 in violations.
[28:05.740 --> 28:08.420]  Debt Collection Practices Act is sketchy.
[28:08.420 --> 28:12.820]  If you read it, it says it's per case, $1,000 per case.
[28:12.820 --> 28:17.660]  I bet people tell me I'd sue them four different times if I had four violations, I'd file four
[28:17.660 --> 28:18.660]  different complaints.
[28:18.660 --> 28:21.180]  Well, yeah, you could do that.
[28:21.180 --> 28:26.580]  But there have been cases where that just hasn't held up and the court has ruled for
[28:26.580 --> 28:29.180]  the amount that the plaintiff has claimed.
[28:29.180 --> 28:34.820]  Anyhow, I hadn't been there for $8,000 and I don't know what I hit him for in damages.
[28:34.820 --> 28:38.140]  He wasn't in my credit report.
[28:38.140 --> 28:43.260]  They weren't in my credit report, but I don't know, it was $50,000 or something like that.
[28:43.260 --> 28:50.820]  So if we had gone to trial and I had won, you know, I've gotten with the violations,
[28:50.820 --> 28:57.260]  the $8,000 in violations and $42,000 in damages, I'd have gotten $50,000.
[28:57.260 --> 29:02.820]  Plus, I don't know if they were paying that lawyer, but most debt collectors have to pay
[29:02.820 --> 29:07.260]  a lawyer and, you know, lawyer is going to rack up 10 or 20 hours.
[29:07.260 --> 29:11.420]  So 20 hours at $400 an hour, that's $8,000.
[29:11.420 --> 29:20.500]  So the whole case would have cost them $58,000 if I had won, if it had gone to trial.
[29:20.500 --> 29:22.820]  They're trying to collect $3,500.
[29:22.820 --> 29:27.900]  Does anybody see anything wrong with this or is it me, I'm screwed up, I don't know.
[29:27.900 --> 29:30.800]  Seems like they're spending a lot of money and putting out a lot of effort for a little
[29:30.800 --> 29:33.700]  bit of cash, chump change even.
[29:33.700 --> 29:36.380]  That's very, very true.
[29:36.380 --> 29:39.220]  Okay, listen, we're going to break.
[29:39.220 --> 29:43.700]  So just hold that thought, Mike, and we will continue on the other side.
[29:43.700 --> 29:49.500]  This is the rule of law, Randy Kelton, Eddie Craig, Deborah Stevens, and a very special
[29:49.500 --> 29:52.700]  guest, Mike Mirris.
[29:52.700 --> 30:14.060]  We'll be right back.
[30:14.060 --> 30:23.700]  If you have a lawyer, know what your lawyer should be doing.
[30:23.700 --> 30:34.700]  If you don't have a lawyer, know what you should do for yourself.
[30:34.700 --> 30:58.060]  If you don't have a lawyer, know what your lawyer should be doing for you, for you, for
[30:58.060 --> 31:17.260]  you, for you, for you, for you, for you, for you, for you, for you, for you, for you.
[31:17.260 --> 31:18.260]  Okay.
[31:18.260 --> 31:23.540]  We're back with Mike Mirris and yeah, the money doesn't make any sense.
[31:23.540 --> 31:27.780]  Why spending so much money, so much time, so much effort on chump change?
[31:27.780 --> 31:32.180]  It would seem in many of these cases, so Mike, what's the deal?
[31:32.180 --> 31:33.740]  Why are they doing this?
[31:33.740 --> 31:41.540]  Well, I think they do it because they think they can get away with it and here's my prognosis
[31:41.540 --> 31:42.540]  on that.
[31:42.540 --> 31:48.140]  From working with corporate America, I've worked for major, major corporations, have
[31:48.140 --> 31:50.660]  dealt with them for years.
[31:50.660 --> 31:58.060]  My training has prepared me for this, I'm what they call a supplier quality engineer
[31:58.060 --> 32:03.260]  and I work with major corporations that are making parts for the company I work for and
[32:03.260 --> 32:04.780]  they have to follow the rules.
[32:04.780 --> 32:05.780]  Isn't that something?
[32:05.780 --> 32:09.980]  Gee, it's just like the law.
[32:09.980 --> 32:14.540]  We set rules, we make drawings, we show them the drawings, we say make the part to this
[32:14.540 --> 32:22.340]  print, get all the specifications down, get all the parts made to the correct specs, etc.,
[32:22.340 --> 32:30.340]  etc., and it proved to me that you've done that and if you don't, you're in trouble.
[32:30.340 --> 32:39.300]  Anyhow, major corporations again, have a lot of money behind them and you're just one individual,
[32:39.300 --> 32:44.100]  so they feel okay, you know, we're going to fight you and here's how it works, folks.
[32:44.100 --> 32:53.060]  They budget for this stuff, they budget for catastrophe, okay, they budget for lawsuits.
[32:53.060 --> 32:58.340]  Every year when the budgets go out, believe me, I've been asked to prepare budgets, okay,
[32:58.340 --> 33:06.220]  I've been asked to prepare departmental budgets, okay, we allocate X amount of funds every
[33:06.220 --> 33:11.100]  year to run this department and oh yeah, by the way, we might have a lawsuit, well how
[33:11.100 --> 33:13.140]  much do we have to allocate for that?
[33:13.140 --> 33:17.780]  So they put money on the side and that money is there, so they expect it.
[33:17.780 --> 33:22.220]  Now, of course, if they don't spend it, well geez, they're heroes, you know, they give
[33:22.220 --> 33:25.780]  it back to the company at the end of the year, etc., etc.
[33:25.780 --> 33:29.660]  So I think my own personal opinion is this is why they fight you.
[33:29.660 --> 33:34.900]  Now, and I say that and I fight my tongue because I've had cases where I've just said notice
[33:34.900 --> 33:42.700]  a pending lawsuit, told them fix the problem, have somebody contact me who can make a decision,
[33:42.700 --> 33:49.820]  or I'm going to file this in 10 days, and I've had the corporate attorneys call me up
[33:49.820 --> 33:53.700]  and it all stops right there, folks.
[33:53.700 --> 34:00.300]  These are the guys, the gals, whatever that can stop this stuff.
[34:00.300 --> 34:04.300]  They go back and they say hey, you know, this guy's going to sue us, if we go to court,
[34:04.300 --> 34:09.340]  we might win, we might lose, we don't know, but it's going to cost us, you know, 10,
[34:09.340 --> 34:14.540]  15, 20 thousand dollars, whatever the court fees are, hire an attorney, and here's how
[34:14.540 --> 34:15.540]  it works.
[34:15.540 --> 34:22.460]  I mean, if you're dealing with a debt collector in Michigan and you live in Texas, and you
[34:22.460 --> 34:26.700]  sue them in Texas, they've got to hire an attorney in Texas, and I'm sure, I don't know
[34:26.700 --> 34:30.900]  exactly what attorneys get in Texas, but I'm sure they get four or five hundred bucks an
[34:30.900 --> 34:37.500]  hour, especially when they find out it's a big bank or a big credit card company or whatever,
[34:37.500 --> 34:38.500]  okay?
[34:38.500 --> 34:41.980]  I mean, if you're the lawyer, you're sitting there rubbing your hands saying oh man, I can
[34:41.980 --> 34:46.260]  charge these guys, I'll make my money this week, you know?
[34:46.260 --> 34:50.260]  So you know, that's what you've got to take into consideration, it's going to cost them
[34:50.260 --> 34:55.300]  a lot of money to defend on this, and if it's a small amount of money, I mean, I've seen
[34:55.300 --> 35:05.180]  cases go to federal court for 160 bucks, okay, and these guys are stupid enough not to respond
[35:05.180 --> 35:11.700]  to notice pending lawsuits, trying to settle this up front, and you take them into federal
[35:11.700 --> 35:16.420]  court and it's like you're the bad guy, no, I'm not the bad guy, you broke the law, I'm
[35:16.420 --> 35:20.300]  here to prove it, you didn't make the part to the print, remember, I told you to make
[35:20.300 --> 35:26.860]  it to the print, you didn't follow the rules, so now I'm going to nail you, and that's what
[35:26.860 --> 35:32.180]  this oil boils down to is a ton of money, I mean, you know, if you've got a credit card
[35:32.180 --> 35:36.700]  with a million dollars on it, they're going to fight you, and they're going to fight you
[35:36.700 --> 35:43.300]  hard, because they want to collect that money, okay, but, but, here's the thing, you get
[35:43.300 --> 35:48.860]  them into federal court, you've got your damages, especially if they're in your credit report,
[35:48.860 --> 35:56.700]  you can add damages, of course you can add your court costs, all servings, etc., etc.,
[35:56.700 --> 36:03.260]  everything this costs you, and yeah, you might have a million dollar alleged debt, but you
[36:03.260 --> 36:10.100]  might take them into that federal court for 250,000 with damages and violations, who knows,
[36:10.100 --> 36:16.740]  okay, but the thing to remember is that it's going to cost the money, and they still haven't
[36:16.740 --> 36:21.460]  gotten the dime, and just because they're in federal court doesn't mean they're going
[36:21.460 --> 36:27.940]  to get paid, however, there's a darn good chance they're going to have to pay you, so
[36:27.940 --> 36:32.740]  now you've got the million dollars that's been thrown out, and now they're going to
[36:32.740 --> 36:39.740]  pay 250,000 dollars more on top of it when you win the case, go figure, go figure, I,
[36:39.740 --> 36:45.380]  you know, it still stumps me why they want to do those things, but they try occasionally,
[36:45.380 --> 36:52.660]  and their only defense in the federal courts is you owed this money, you had this credit
[36:52.660 --> 36:58.040]  card, you had this note, whatever, that's their only defense, the problem is they don't
[36:58.040 --> 37:04.820]  get it, and here's the secret to the whole thing, when you go into that federal court,
[37:04.820 --> 37:09.540]  you're not going in there over money, again, in the law, if you go read the fair credit
[37:09.540 --> 37:13.260]  and the debt collection practice, in fact, there's no mention of money owed, if you
[37:13.260 --> 37:20.620]  owe a million or a thousand, they don't talk about that in there, it's in black and white,
[37:20.620 --> 37:28.180]  they have violated your civil rights, and that's what these cases are, they're civil
[37:28.180 --> 37:34.340]  rights cases, you didn't follow the rules, you didn't make the part to the print, you
[37:34.340 --> 37:40.700]  broke the rules, and now I'm going to nail you for breaking the rules, and that's what
[37:40.700 --> 37:44.540]  this is about, folks, it's not about money when you get in that federal court, although
[37:44.540 --> 37:49.220]  that's the only defense they will have, they'll keep saying, well, you had this card, you
[37:49.220 --> 37:54.460]  had this debt, you had this note, who cares, and I've had the attorneys, when I've gotten
[37:54.460 --> 38:01.260]  into consultation with them over this stuff, trying to figure out what the heck I'm doing,
[38:01.260 --> 38:07.820]  and I sat there and I explained it to them, and I've seen the proverbial deer in the headlight
[38:07.820 --> 38:12.660]  syndrome, the eyes get big, and it's like, yeah, it has nothing to do with money, it's
[38:12.660 --> 38:18.460]  what you guys didn't do when I challenged you, and it's like, oh, okay, and now we get
[38:18.460 --> 38:23.380]  it, yeah, you broke the law and I caught you.
[38:23.380 --> 38:29.220]  The consumer law in this stuff, from my understanding, I have a young lady that I work with, who's
[38:29.220 --> 38:36.180]  in Oklahoma City, who's a law student, and I say young lady, she's 35, she's not a kid,
[38:36.180 --> 38:44.020]  but she loves to research, and she researched all the law schools around the United States
[38:44.020 --> 38:53.940]  that teach consumer law, consumer law, and she found six of them, and the six college
[38:53.940 --> 39:02.340]  law schools that she found, the courses were optional, because there's not a lot of money
[39:02.340 --> 39:04.820]  to be made in this stuff, doing this stuff.
[39:04.820 --> 39:08.100]  Can you imagine if you're a lawyer and you go after one of your debt collector lawyer
[39:08.100 --> 39:13.420]  buddies, you're in the same bar association, come on, where's that case going to go?
[39:13.420 --> 39:15.740]  They're not going to do that.
[39:15.740 --> 39:18.380]  So it's very difficult to find attorneys that handle this.
[39:18.380 --> 39:23.940]  We have NACA attorneys, National Association of Consumer Attorneys, who are pretty good,
[39:23.940 --> 39:27.180]  there are some out there that are very good at doing this stuff, and then you also get
[39:27.180 --> 39:34.180]  some that they don't want to get involved with it, okay, but once you learn this stuff,
[39:34.180 --> 39:35.180]  it's very, very powerful.
[39:35.180 --> 39:41.420]  I make it sound easy, because I've been doing it for about seven years now, and I've been
[39:41.420 --> 39:47.420]  in federal court six times, and I want to mention, it's easy for me to say this, and
[39:47.420 --> 39:54.180]  some of you folks might be new to the program and wonder what my credibility is, but there
[39:54.180 --> 39:56.260]  is a website you can go to.
[39:56.260 --> 40:01.620]  Now this isn't something that I made up or somebody on rule of law radio made up, it
[40:01.620 --> 40:03.100]  has nothing to do with us.
[40:03.100 --> 40:05.900]  It's the US government site.
[40:05.900 --> 40:12.660]  The federal government site is called PACER, all capital letters, P-A-C-E-R, it's actually
[40:12.660 --> 40:17.180]  the electronic filing system for these federal cases.
[40:17.180 --> 40:20.060]  They are public knowledge.
[40:20.060 --> 40:26.900]  They're open for the public to look at and review and see, and you can see these cases.
[40:26.900 --> 40:31.980]  You just go in there and you sign up, doesn't cost you anything to get on the site, you
[40:31.980 --> 40:37.540]  go to Google, do a query for PACER, you go to their site, you'll sign up, you will need
[40:37.540 --> 40:41.660]  a debit card or credit card, but they don't charge it.
[40:41.660 --> 40:45.740]  What they do is they keep that there, and that allows you to go into the site, and the
[40:45.740 --> 40:53.020]  only time you get charged anything is when you print out one of the pages from the website,
[40:53.020 --> 40:59.460]  from a case, and it's eight cents a page, and they won't charge your card, your debit
[40:59.460 --> 41:05.300]  card, your credit card, whatever, until you run up $10 worth of charges.
[41:05.300 --> 41:13.780]  And then after that, let's say you pulled up 100 pages, well you got, you know, you're
[41:13.780 --> 41:20.540]  still within the $10, but let's say you pulled up $125 worth of billing.
[41:20.540 --> 41:28.220]  That will reset after 90 days, it goes back to zero and you get to start all over again.
[41:28.220 --> 41:33.820]  So until you reach the $10 maximum, they're not going to charge your card.
[41:33.820 --> 41:38.700]  But the point I'm trying to make is you can go in there, they have a query field, you
[41:38.700 --> 41:43.980]  can put my last name in there and query me and it will show you all the federal cases
[41:43.980 --> 41:47.500]  in my name that I've had in court.
[41:47.500 --> 41:51.740]  And that's M-I-R-R-A-S?
[41:51.740 --> 41:52.740]  That's correct.
[41:52.740 --> 41:53.740]  Wonderful.
[41:53.740 --> 42:02.100]  And the point is, you know, if you ever wind up working with me, you need to know more,
[42:02.100 --> 42:05.780]  there's other folks that, you know, I know that are in federal court, I can certainly
[42:05.780 --> 42:10.460]  give you their last names, they can go in and that actually, everybody's pretty proud
[42:10.460 --> 42:15.020]  when they see those cases in there, okay?
[42:15.020 --> 42:17.420]  You've gone in and defended your rights under the law.
[42:17.420 --> 42:23.900]  Now Mike, these cases on PACER, are these cases that a judge ruled in your favor or
[42:23.900 --> 42:27.460]  are these cases that were settled out of court?
[42:27.460 --> 42:32.900]  They were ruled in my favor, however, well, here's what they are, they're dismissed with
[42:32.900 --> 42:34.380]  prejudice.
[42:34.380 --> 42:38.700]  Every one of the cases have been dismissed with prejudice because we reached a settlement
[42:38.700 --> 42:39.700]  agreement.
[42:39.700 --> 42:43.540]  They said, okay, that's enough, we don't want to do this anymore, what's it going to take
[42:43.540 --> 42:45.460]  to make you go away?
[42:45.460 --> 42:49.140]  We reached a settlement agreement, we put it in writing and see folks, this is what stops
[42:49.140 --> 42:50.140]  all this stuff.
[42:50.140 --> 42:53.500]  The settlement agreement outlines everything that the case was about.
[42:53.500 --> 42:58.340]  If they were trying to collect $1,000 from you, in that settlement agreement, it's going
[42:58.340 --> 43:02.500]  to say, they're not going to bother you about that ever again, they're not going to sell
[43:02.500 --> 43:08.420]  it to another debt collector, they're going to retire this thing, they're going to put
[43:08.420 --> 43:14.300]  it to sleep so it doesn't come back five or ten years from now, somebody trying to collect
[43:14.300 --> 43:20.380]  it again from you, okay, and oh, by the way, if you've done anything in my credit report,
[43:20.380 --> 43:28.060]  you must remove all that stuff, this is all in writing, okay?
[43:28.060 --> 43:32.700]  Now what you have is a contract, you have a contractual agreement.
[43:32.700 --> 43:38.020]  Alright, hold on to that thought, you get a contract with them.
[43:38.020 --> 43:42.020]  We'll be right back with Mr. Mike Maris.
[43:42.020 --> 43:46.460]  You can get his materials on our website, ruleoflawradio.com, scroll down about the
[43:46.460 --> 43:52.460]  middle of the page where you see the banners, on the blue banner, with more information.
[43:52.460 --> 43:59.380]  We'll be right back.
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[45:17.540 --> 45:41.820]  Okay, we are just here making our living pushing buttons.
[45:41.820 --> 45:43.980]  Not such a bad way to make a living.
[45:43.980 --> 45:50.180]  We're here with Michael Maris, he's about to talk about the contract to keep this from
[45:50.180 --> 45:53.540]  happening again over and over and over.
[45:53.540 --> 45:56.940]  And I just wanted to clarify too, we were discussing on the break, when you look up
[45:56.940 --> 46:05.320]  on Pacer, it does say dismissed with prejudice by the plaintiff who was Michael Maris in
[46:05.320 --> 46:06.320]  these cases.
[46:06.320 --> 46:12.020]  So obviously if he's the plaintiff and he's dismissing the case or moving to dismiss the
[46:12.020 --> 46:14.540]  case, then obviously that means he won.
[46:14.540 --> 46:19.260]  So this is verifiable information out there in the public record.
[46:19.260 --> 46:23.540]  So okay, please Mike, continue about the contract.
[46:23.540 --> 46:24.540]  Okay.
[46:24.540 --> 46:28.780]  Well, once they, the contract, I call it a contract because really that's what it is,
[46:28.780 --> 46:30.380]  but it's called settlement agreement.
[46:30.380 --> 46:33.820]  They agree not to report this anymore, they're not going to sell it, they're not going to
[46:33.820 --> 46:38.220]  try to collect it, they're not going to return it to the creditor, the original creditor,
[46:38.220 --> 46:39.220]  whatever.
[46:39.220 --> 46:41.660]  And then sometimes you're dealing with the original creditor as well.
[46:41.660 --> 46:47.180]  So that's a moot point, but the point is once this is all signed and it's generally signed
[46:47.180 --> 46:52.500]  by the attorney who's representing them, or occasionally you'll get someone from the company
[46:52.500 --> 46:59.580]  that will sign it who's in power to do that, it's notarized, the stamps, it's a contract.
[46:59.580 --> 47:05.400]  And what happens with that contract is that once you have that, if anything should change
[47:05.400 --> 47:10.660]  in the future, if all of a sudden they show back up in your credit report again, now I
[47:10.660 --> 47:14.980]  try to be a nice guy, I don't try to stir up more trouble than there is already out
[47:14.980 --> 47:15.980]  there.
[47:15.980 --> 47:20.020]  You know, I give them a call and say, hey, you're in my credit report with the same stuff
[47:20.020 --> 47:23.380]  again and like immediately it's removed.
[47:23.380 --> 47:24.380]  Okay.
[47:24.380 --> 47:30.740]  I did have that happen once on one case, but the point is if they don't do that, if you
[47:30.740 --> 47:37.380]  want to be an SOB about it, they're in breach of contract and every attorney I know understands
[47:37.380 --> 47:38.380]  contract law.
[47:38.380 --> 47:42.260]  Well, you would find an attorney, can you imagine if you had one of the major banks
[47:42.260 --> 47:45.580]  that did something like that, you went to an attorney and said, hey, I had this contract,
[47:45.580 --> 47:49.500]  they promised not to put this back in my credit report again, here's a copy of my current
[47:49.500 --> 47:51.620]  credit report, they're back in there.
[47:51.620 --> 47:54.780]  I mean, the attorney is going to, they broke the contract?
[47:54.780 --> 47:55.780]  Yeah.
[47:55.780 --> 47:56.780]  Oh, we'll go after them for breach of contract.
[47:56.780 --> 47:57.780]  That ought to be worth $100,000.
[47:57.780 --> 48:02.660]  Oh yeah, that big bank bail, that's the one we just bailed out, you know.
[48:02.660 --> 48:07.380]  So this is the kind of stuff that you do to protect yourself, to have this stuff from
[48:07.380 --> 48:11.740]  coming back to you in the future.
[48:11.740 --> 48:15.020]  It's pretty simple once you learn how to do it.
[48:15.020 --> 48:19.460]  I have been up against some major law firms.
[48:19.460 --> 48:27.940]  When I did my credit bureau case, I was against a firm out of the Dallas-Fort Worth area.
[48:27.940 --> 48:36.180]  They have 15 offices worldwide, Europe, Hong Kong, United States, they're all over the
[48:36.180 --> 48:44.500]  place, and they have 240 attorneys on staff, but I beat them, okay?
[48:44.500 --> 48:51.780]  So when I say once you learn how to do it, it's pretty simple, it's a paper trail, folks,
[48:51.780 --> 48:56.540]  and every one of these cases, your paper trail is going to be better than their paper trail.
[48:56.540 --> 49:01.140]  Remember I told you about the blueprints and make parts of the prints and all that?
[49:01.140 --> 49:03.100]  You got a paper trail in place.
[49:03.100 --> 49:07.740]  Prove to me you did everything that it says on this piece of paper, I can't touch it.
[49:07.740 --> 49:10.860]  But if you can't prove to me that you did that, you're in trouble.
[49:10.860 --> 49:12.980]  It's that simple.
[49:12.980 --> 49:17.180]  It's a paper trail.
[49:17.180 --> 49:18.180]  It gets interesting.
[49:18.180 --> 49:24.860]  I've got a couple of folks I've worked with over the years that have done this.
[49:24.860 --> 49:28.380]  They actually enjoy it.
[49:28.380 --> 49:35.220]  I know that sounds funny, but they actually enjoy going in because it's a learning curve.
[49:35.220 --> 49:39.380]  Every case is almost identical, some are a little bit different.
[49:39.380 --> 49:47.860]  Some cases these attorneys will fight you, okay, and you'll go to 26F, discovery, and
[49:47.860 --> 49:53.660]  there's a lot of paper shuffling, there's a lot of questions to be asked, but the point
[49:53.660 --> 49:58.940]  of this whole thing in the discovery phase is that if you can show that they've broken
[49:58.940 --> 50:02.740]  the law and they can prove it, why do you have to go to trial?
[50:02.740 --> 50:08.220]  You're going to get all that from them.
[50:08.220 --> 50:13.740]  Generally the way it works is several weeks before the trial proceeds you will appear
[50:13.740 --> 50:18.540]  before the federal judge and the judge will determine what's admissible and what's not
[50:18.540 --> 50:25.620]  admissible and can determine at that time if these guys have admitted everything, the
[50:25.620 --> 50:30.380]  judge can make a summary judgment right there.
[50:30.380 --> 50:34.900]  So you may not even have to go to trial, and I'm going to be perfectly honest with you,
[50:34.900 --> 50:40.460]  I have not run across anybody yet who's gone before a jury with this stuff.
[50:40.460 --> 50:46.740]  But there's probably an alternative reason to that, and I always say this and I always
[50:46.740 --> 50:53.940]  bring it up, can you imagine you take these guys into a jury trial, 12 people on a jury,
[50:53.940 --> 50:58.540]  and my first question to somebody doing this, I always ask them this, do you think anybody
[50:58.540 --> 51:01.700]  on that jury's got a credit report?
[51:01.700 --> 51:08.940]  Do you think anybody on that jury has had an issue with the credit bureaus or creditor
[51:08.940 --> 51:14.460]  or debt collector or maybe if they haven't, they've had a son, a daughter, a brother,
[51:14.460 --> 51:18.260]  sister, uncle, cousin, who knows, okay?
[51:18.260 --> 51:23.580]  But I think you're going to find it very difficult to find what they call a non-biased
[51:23.580 --> 51:26.660]  jury, very difficult.
[51:26.660 --> 51:30.940]  And then the newest thing I've kind of picked up on, which I know if I was sitting on that
[51:30.940 --> 51:34.780]  jury and I had a big bank there in front of me who was trying to collect money like Citi
[51:34.780 --> 51:39.820]  or Bank of America or one of these guys, I'd be sitting on that jury and I'd be looking
[51:39.820 --> 51:46.020]  at them saying, didn't we just bail you guys out billions of dollars and you're in here
[51:46.020 --> 51:49.820]  trying to beat this person up for a few thousand, what the heck's wrong with you guys?
[51:49.820 --> 51:50.980]  Don't you have anything better?
[51:50.980 --> 51:55.820]  It's no wonder we're bailing you out, you're wasting our money.
[51:55.820 --> 52:02.620]  So personal opinion is they would get a lot of sympathy from a jury on this stuff because
[52:02.620 --> 52:03.860]  people have been through this.
[52:03.860 --> 52:04.860]  I don't care who you are.
[52:04.860 --> 52:11.460]  I've had people I've worked with approach me just out of the blue and didn't even know
[52:11.460 --> 52:16.460]  I did this stuff and asked me, hey, I was buying a house and something come up in my
[52:16.460 --> 52:17.460]  credit.
[52:17.460 --> 52:18.460]  Did you ever have anything like that happen?
[52:18.460 --> 52:20.020]  Would something come up in your credit report?
[52:20.020 --> 52:24.660]  They're giving you an idea I had years ago, but I don't anymore.
[52:24.660 --> 52:28.940]  And then I educate them a little bit and it's like, oh man.
[52:28.940 --> 52:33.620]  So this is doable.
[52:33.620 --> 52:40.500]  I've just been through so many times on my personal basis from helping other people and
[52:40.500 --> 52:48.460]  see them win and they just don't seem to want to go in that courtroom in front of that jury.
[52:48.460 --> 52:56.340]  And it's getting through the 26F and getting your documentation that you need from them,
[52:56.340 --> 53:00.740]  the proof of their violations, even get to do what they call depositions.
[53:00.740 --> 53:02.340]  This is where you can call someone in.
[53:02.340 --> 53:08.340]  For instance, I know this one gentleman that I'm working with right now, the bank is up
[53:08.340 --> 53:10.380]  against the federal courts.
[53:10.380 --> 53:17.100]  We don't think we got his letter lost in the system, which is a violation of the law right
[53:17.100 --> 53:24.700]  there because the law says they must maintain systems that prevent error.
[53:24.700 --> 53:25.700]  Exact words, folks.
[53:25.700 --> 53:30.460]  I don't have anything in front of me, but I've read the law enough that I remember some
[53:30.460 --> 53:35.940]  of the key phrases, they must have systems in place to prevent error.
[53:35.940 --> 53:40.540]  Lawyer jumps up in the courtroom, they're having a conference with the judge, and we
[53:40.540 --> 53:43.300]  don't think we got his letter.
[53:43.300 --> 53:44.900]  It's lost in the system somewhere.
[53:44.900 --> 53:46.700]  Well, you just admitted guilt.
[53:46.700 --> 53:51.860]  You admitted you don't have the systems in place to prevent error.
[53:51.860 --> 54:00.940]  Now, getting into the paperwork end of this in 26F can reveal a lot.
[54:00.940 --> 54:04.180]  Anyhow, they claim they didn't have the letter.
[54:04.180 --> 54:08.660]  You sent the letter certified mail, so what my guy did is, okay, well, we're going to
[54:08.660 --> 54:10.220]  continue on the 26F.
[54:10.220 --> 54:11.500]  We get depositions.
[54:11.500 --> 54:18.860]  This is where you can have someone come in in front of a notary public, a court reporter,
[54:18.860 --> 54:23.500]  whatever you want to call them, swear them in, and ask them questions.
[54:23.500 --> 54:30.380]  So my guy has served a subpoena upon the person that signed the green card and says, I'm going
[54:30.380 --> 54:31.380]  to depose you.
[54:31.380 --> 54:35.820]  Is this or is this not your signature on the card?
[54:35.820 --> 54:36.820]  Okay?
[54:36.820 --> 54:38.540]  Did you get the letter or not?
[54:38.540 --> 54:40.060]  What's he going to say?
[54:40.060 --> 54:42.060]  No, it's in black and white.
[54:42.060 --> 54:46.220]  Well, Mike, this brings up something I wanted to ask you too about sending these people
[54:46.220 --> 54:48.060]  these letters.
[54:48.060 --> 54:54.820]  Would you send it actually through a notary, which would be verification of actually the
[54:54.820 --> 55:00.060]  substance of what you sent and not just send it certified mail because you could have sent
[55:00.060 --> 55:05.260]  anything, it just shows that you sent them something, or is it necessary to go to that
[55:05.260 --> 55:08.100]  length to send it actually through a notary?
[55:08.100 --> 55:10.060]  I know exactly what you're talking about.
[55:10.060 --> 55:12.340]  I know some folks that do it that way.
[55:12.340 --> 55:16.220]  That's perfectly okay if you want to go for the extra expense of doing that, and you can
[55:16.220 --> 55:17.220]  do it.
[55:17.220 --> 55:20.740]  But I have never had any of my letters challenged.
[55:20.740 --> 55:23.460]  Here's the letter I sent, and here's the certified mailing.
[55:23.460 --> 55:27.300]  So they don't challenge it and say, well, yeah, he sent us something, but he didn't
[55:27.300 --> 55:28.940]  send us this.
[55:28.940 --> 55:30.980]  You've never had that happen?
[55:30.980 --> 55:32.380]  I've never seen that happen.
[55:32.380 --> 55:33.380]  Okay.
[55:33.380 --> 55:34.380]  All right.
[55:34.380 --> 55:35.380]  Very good.
[55:35.380 --> 55:36.380]  I've never seen that happen.
[55:36.380 --> 55:37.380]  Okay.
[55:37.380 --> 55:39.220]  But I understand what you're talking about, going through a notary.
[55:39.220 --> 55:40.380]  You certainly could do that.
[55:40.380 --> 55:44.700]  I know some folks that have done that that have some serious cases and they don't want
[55:44.700 --> 55:46.220]  anything coming back on them.
[55:46.220 --> 55:49.780]  But in my own personal experience, I've never had that happen.
[55:49.780 --> 55:50.780]  Okay.
[55:50.780 --> 55:56.020]  They've always gone through the regular certified mail, sent it to them, and nobody's ever come
[55:56.020 --> 55:58.220]  back and say, well, that's not the letter you sent us.
[55:58.220 --> 55:59.220]  Okay.
[55:59.220 --> 56:00.220]  Good.
[56:00.220 --> 56:05.300]  Well, that's good news because, yeah, it is an extra, it can be an extra expense if you
[56:05.300 --> 56:10.820]  don't know a notary who's willing to do it pro bono, and certainly extra process, you
[56:10.820 --> 56:11.820]  know, it's an extra step.
[56:11.820 --> 56:12.820]  You have to have it notarized.
[56:12.820 --> 56:14.500]  You got to mail it through the notary.
[56:14.500 --> 56:18.580]  You know, the letters, the return mail has to come back through the notary to you.
[56:18.580 --> 56:21.620]  It's a lot of extra work and paperwork and steps.
[56:21.620 --> 56:25.540]  And if you don't think it's really necessary, then that's probably a good thing.
[56:25.540 --> 56:26.540]  Yeah.
[56:26.540 --> 56:32.980]  I've never done that and I've, you know, I've been successful, you know.
[56:32.980 --> 56:35.300]  Certainly that approach is very good.
[56:35.300 --> 56:39.780]  I've seen those documents from folks I've helped who have done things that way, and
[56:39.780 --> 56:41.260]  I don't have any problem with it.
[56:41.260 --> 56:43.580]  But again, I've never used it.
[56:43.580 --> 56:46.740]  So my own personal opinion is just send it certified mail.
[56:46.740 --> 56:50.780]  I've never had them come back and challenge me, okay?
[56:50.780 --> 56:56.940]  Because you know, when you present these documents as evidence in court, there's a little thing
[56:56.940 --> 56:58.540]  called perjury and fraud.
[56:58.540 --> 57:00.300]  You don't want to get in that, okay?
[57:00.300 --> 57:05.660]  So when you produce a document and you say, this is the letter I sent them, you're essentially
[57:05.660 --> 57:09.460]  saying, you know, I'm swearing to this, okay?
[57:09.460 --> 57:12.140]  And if it goes to trial, they're going to produce that letter and they're going to say,
[57:12.140 --> 57:16.980]  did you send this letter to us on such and such a day?
[57:16.980 --> 57:18.580]  And you got to sit there and say, yeah, I did.
[57:18.580 --> 57:24.180]  Well, you're telling the truth, so nothing's going to happen to you, okay?
[57:24.180 --> 57:31.180]  And one of the things that's interesting with this one case, this gentleman that's handling,
[57:31.180 --> 57:38.980]  and he may call in here tonight, he also, they also pulled his credit report during
[57:38.980 --> 57:42.220]  litigation, which is another violation of the law, big time.
[57:42.220 --> 57:50.180]  It also falls under Title 18, which is criminal charges to felony, days in a privacy, et cetera,
[57:50.180 --> 57:51.300]  et cetera.
[57:51.300 --> 57:59.580]  He has subpoenaed the legal counsel at this bank that he's going after to beat the post.
[57:59.580 --> 58:04.380]  Well, the case is getting very interesting.
[58:04.380 --> 58:05.380]  Okay.
[58:05.380 --> 58:07.660]  Well, hold that thought so we can talk about the case on the other side.
[58:07.660 --> 58:11.780]  And speaking of callers, Mike, would you like to open up the phone lines at this point?
[58:11.780 --> 58:12.780]  Okay.
[58:12.780 --> 58:13.780]  Okay.
[58:13.780 --> 58:15.780]  We're going to open up the phone lines.
[58:15.780 --> 58:20.260]  So callers, if you'd like to call in and ask Mike Mears a question, please be on topic
[58:20.260 --> 58:22.560]  because Mike is our special guest tonight.
[58:22.560 --> 58:24.420]  Please don't ask about traffic tickets tonight.
[58:24.420 --> 58:26.500]  We'll save that for Monday.
[58:26.500 --> 58:32.540]  So if you have a credit card questions, debt collector questions, or if you're one of Mike
[58:32.540 --> 58:39.820]  Mears' guests who's been invited on the show, please call in 512-646-1984.
[58:39.820 --> 58:43.860]  I believe Eddie had some questions for Mike as well on the other side, but we want to
[58:43.860 --> 58:45.460]  hear about this case first.
[58:45.460 --> 58:46.460]  Okay.
[58:46.460 --> 58:58.980]  So we will be right back after this top of our news break.
[58:58.980 --> 59:01.100]  This is Randall Kelton from Rule of Law Radio.
[59:01.100 --> 59:05.740]  Many of you have been helped by the informative programming on 90.1.
[59:05.740 --> 59:07.860]  Now 90.1 needs your help.
[59:07.860 --> 59:13.020]  The operators of 90.1 are in a legal battle with the FCC to stay on the air, and they
[59:13.020 --> 59:18.580]  need letters from your listeners testifying that 90.1 serves the public interest by bringing
[59:18.580 --> 59:22.260]  truthful news and information that no other station does.
[59:22.260 --> 59:26.700]  Brave New Books is not associated with the Austin Micros, but they have agreed to help
[59:26.700 --> 59:28.500]  by collecting your letters.
[59:28.500 --> 59:35.860]  Please drop off or mail your letters to Brave New Books, Attention, Austin Micros, 90.1,
[59:35.860 --> 59:41.300]  1904 Guadalupe, Suite B, Austin, Texas, 78705.
[59:41.300 --> 59:44.860]  There are also form letters at the bookstore that folks can just sign.
[59:44.860 --> 59:49.500]  Please help keep 90.1 on the air by getting your letters to Brave New Books as soon as
[59:49.500 --> 59:50.500]  possible.
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[59:59.460 --> 01:00:04.140]  This news brief brought to you by the International News Net.
[01:00:04.140 --> 01:00:07.780]  In Iraq Thursday, three Iraqis were killed and 11 wounded.
[01:00:07.780 --> 01:00:09.900]  One U.S. soldier was also killed.
[01:00:09.900 --> 01:00:15.860]  The Islamic State of Iraq claimed responsibility for Tuesday's massive bombings in Baghdad.
[01:00:15.860 --> 01:00:20.780]  Health officials said Thursday swine flu has killed nearly 10,000 Americans and infected
[01:00:20.780 --> 01:00:23.200]  one in six people since April.
[01:00:23.200 --> 01:00:27.380]  The Centers for Disease Control estimated that between April and November, there have been
[01:00:27.380 --> 01:00:33.060]  nearly 50 million cases of H1N1 flu in the United States.
[01:00:33.060 --> 01:00:37.380]  In a typical year, seasonal flu kills 36,000 Americans.
[01:00:37.380 --> 01:00:42.780]  Fifty-three percent of adults in the United States are willing to legalize marijuana,
[01:00:42.780 --> 01:00:45.540]  according to a poll by Angus Reid Public Opinion.
[01:00:45.540 --> 01:00:49.660]  However, fewer than 10 percent support legalizing other drugs.
[01:00:49.660 --> 01:00:58.500]  Fourteen states, including California, allow the use of marijuana for medical purposes.
[01:00:58.500 --> 01:01:03.780]  The Ecuadorian government said Thursday U.S. intelligence from inside Ecuador was used
[01:01:03.780 --> 01:01:10.740]  to plan a 2008 bombing by Colombian troops that killed a top FARC guerrilla leader in
[01:01:10.740 --> 01:01:12.780]  Ecuadorian territory.
[01:01:12.780 --> 01:01:18.220]  A government report says U.S. forces then based in the Pacific coast town of Manta helped
[01:01:18.220 --> 01:01:24.300]  Colombian troops target Raul Reyes, number two commander of the Revolutionary Armed Forces
[01:01:24.300 --> 01:01:25.300]  of Colombia.
[01:01:25.300 --> 01:01:30.500]  The March 2008 bombing triggered a diplomatic crisis.
[01:01:30.500 --> 01:01:36.220]  Ecuador and Colombia are just now reestablishing diplomatic ties severed by Quito after the
[01:01:36.220 --> 01:01:37.580]  raid.
[01:01:37.580 --> 01:01:42.700]  Ecuador has since ended its Manta agreement, prompting Washington to sign a deal with Colombia
[01:01:42.700 --> 01:01:49.060]  in October, allowing U.S. forces to carry out anti-drug operations from seven Colombian
[01:01:49.060 --> 01:01:50.860]  military bases.
[01:01:50.860 --> 01:01:55.300]  Several Latin American governments object to the new U.S.-Colombia pact.
[01:01:55.300 --> 01:02:00.600]  Venezuelan leader Hugo Chavez has warned it could set the stage for the U.S. invasion
[01:02:00.600 --> 01:02:05.700]  of his country.
[01:02:05.700 --> 01:02:10.580]  The non-governmental organization Sandbag has revealed the U.K.'s richest resident,
[01:02:10.580 --> 01:02:18.300]  Lakshmi Mittal, CEO of steel giant Arcelor Mittal, could make $1.6 billion between now
[01:02:18.300 --> 01:02:22.860]  and 2012 from the EU's emissions trading scheme.
[01:02:22.860 --> 01:02:29.380]  Arcelor Mittal has over 14 million emissions permits it doesn't need from 2008, a figure
[01:02:29.380 --> 01:02:33.140]  that could rise to 80 million by 2012.
[01:02:33.140 --> 01:02:38.540]  Sandbag has written to Mittal urging him to cancel his company's unneeded emissions permits.
[01:02:38.540 --> 01:02:44.220]  If canceled, the 80 million surplus permits would prevent 80 million tons worth of pollution
[01:02:44.220 --> 01:02:46.420]  entering the Earth's atmosphere.
[01:02:46.420 --> 01:02:52.420]  Anna Pearson, head of policy at Sandbag, said, we're calling on Arcelor Mittal to trade
[01:02:52.420 --> 01:02:54.980]  in the windfall profits they could make.
[01:02:54.980 --> 01:03:00.780]  This would set an example not only to industry worldwide, but to global leaders in Copenhagen.
[01:03:00.780 --> 01:03:10.700]  You are listening to the Rule of Law Radio Network at ruleoflawradio.com, live free speech
[01:03:10.700 --> 01:03:22.740]  talk radio at its best.
[01:03:22.740 --> 01:03:51.940]  This
[01:03:51.940 --> 01:04:03.080]  All right, their plan is wicked and their logic is shoddy.
[01:04:03.080 --> 01:04:07.280]  That's the words of my husband there, Jerry Stevens.
[01:04:07.280 --> 01:04:11.160]  Okay, so we've got some callers on the board.
[01:04:11.160 --> 01:04:14.360]  One of the callers is a guest of Mike's that he invited to call in.
[01:04:14.360 --> 01:04:19.720]  Before we go to the call board though, Mike, you were just about to tell us the juicy details
[01:04:19.720 --> 01:04:20.720]  of this suit.
[01:04:20.720 --> 01:04:22.420]  So go ahead, tell us.
[01:04:22.420 --> 01:04:31.260]  Well, you know, to get back to the basics of this whole thing with the alleged suits
[01:04:31.260 --> 01:04:39.340]  that they're filing and they're coming after you for X amount of dollars, again, going
[01:04:39.340 --> 01:04:42.940]  back to the basics, it has nothing to do with the money.
[01:04:42.940 --> 01:04:49.460]  But getting them in that federal court is the key to all this thing, this whole thing,
[01:04:49.460 --> 01:04:51.080]  and you being the plaintiff.
[01:04:51.080 --> 01:04:56.100]  This is where you'll gain a tremendous amount of control over this situation.
[01:04:56.100 --> 01:04:59.940]  I always like to basically say they can't go to the bathroom without asking your permission
[01:04:59.940 --> 01:05:03.220]  when you're a plaintiff in a case.
[01:05:03.220 --> 01:05:07.980]  Again, and then going back to some of the other things we talked about, the money's
[01:05:07.980 --> 01:05:13.980]  involved, there's a tremendous amount to defend on these cases, the time involved, and it's
[01:05:13.980 --> 01:05:15.420]  not the money on your part.
[01:05:15.420 --> 01:05:22.100]  By the way, even if you are indigent, you don't have to pay to go into federal court.
[01:05:22.100 --> 01:05:26.100]  It's normally $350 to file a case.
[01:05:26.100 --> 01:05:31.060]  But if you're not working, you're retired, whatever, you fill out a simple form, and
[01:05:31.060 --> 01:05:32.700]  by the way, that is on my disk.
[01:05:32.700 --> 01:05:37.060]  I do provide a copy of that form, but you can go to the website of your local federal
[01:05:37.060 --> 01:05:40.780]  district court and get one as well.
[01:05:40.780 --> 01:05:47.820]  The case is classified as a civil rights violation, as I mentioned earlier, and you can get it
[01:05:47.820 --> 01:05:48.820]  before the judge.
[01:05:48.820 --> 01:05:49.820]  You fill out the form.
[01:05:49.820 --> 01:05:54.460]  A day or two, they'll come back and say, okay, you're granted, and the nice part about that
[01:05:54.460 --> 01:06:01.980]  is it doesn't cost you anything, and the best part is that when they are served the summons
[01:06:01.980 --> 01:06:06.980]  or the complaint, it's served by the United States Marshals.
[01:06:06.980 --> 01:06:11.340]  So I always like to say, how would you like to have those guys showing up at your front
[01:06:11.340 --> 01:06:12.340]  door?
[01:06:12.340 --> 01:06:13.340]  Okay?
[01:06:13.340 --> 01:06:19.340]  So, you know, basically, the amount of power and the things you can do once you get into
[01:06:19.340 --> 01:06:25.620]  one of these cases to make these guys stop, it just amazes me, just amazes me.
[01:06:25.620 --> 01:06:33.100]  I sit in conversations with these opposing councils, and I just watch them melt.
[01:06:33.100 --> 01:06:34.100]  They don't get it.
[01:06:34.100 --> 01:06:39.900]  They don't understand the law when it comes to this stuff, and it will be your duty, and
[01:06:39.900 --> 01:06:46.820]  duty under the legal terms is law, will be your duty to teach them.
[01:06:46.820 --> 01:06:50.100]  Okay, Deborah, let the calls come in.
[01:06:50.100 --> 01:06:51.100]  Okay, here we go.
[01:06:51.100 --> 01:06:55.300]  First, we've got Mark from Rhode Island, which I believe is someone you invited.
[01:06:55.300 --> 01:06:57.020]  Mark, thanks for calling in.
[01:06:57.020 --> 01:06:58.020]  What's on your mind tonight?
[01:06:58.020 --> 01:06:59.380]  What's your question for Mike?
[01:06:59.380 --> 01:07:07.260]  Well, I was the gentleman that Mike was referring to that has the case here in the Rhode Island
[01:07:07.260 --> 01:07:13.700]  Federal Court, and I've been working with him on that, and it's been a quite interesting
[01:07:13.700 --> 01:07:14.700]  case.
[01:07:14.700 --> 01:07:21.460]  And I believe he was talking about the fact that I subpoenaed this guy for a deposition,
[01:07:21.460 --> 01:07:24.780]  and he did not show up, so we're going to...
[01:07:24.780 --> 01:07:28.340]  Now, who exactly did you subpoena?
[01:07:28.340 --> 01:07:30.860]  The attorney for the bank.
[01:07:30.860 --> 01:07:31.860]  Wow.
[01:07:31.860 --> 01:07:35.460]  Let me just jump in here a second, Mark.
[01:07:35.460 --> 01:07:36.460]  How the heck do you do a high five?
[01:07:36.460 --> 01:07:37.460]  That's hilarious.
[01:07:37.460 --> 01:07:41.260]  Yeah, I haven't talked to Mark since maybe about an hour ago.
[01:07:41.260 --> 01:07:44.940]  But Mark and I have known each other for several years.
[01:07:44.940 --> 01:07:45.940]  We've done this together.
[01:07:45.940 --> 01:07:49.060]  This is not Mark's first case.
[01:07:49.060 --> 01:07:50.380]  He's getting a lot of experience.
[01:07:50.380 --> 01:07:55.740]  I think this is his third or fourth case in federal court.
[01:07:55.740 --> 01:07:59.660]  And Mark, you tell me if I'm wrong, you haven't lost the case yet either, have you?
[01:07:59.660 --> 01:08:01.220]  No, I have not.
[01:08:01.220 --> 01:08:02.220]  Interesting.
[01:08:02.220 --> 01:08:10.100]  That's not bad for no nothing pro se litigant, that's all I can say.
[01:08:10.100 --> 01:08:13.700]  Mark has gotten into a very interesting case here.
[01:08:13.700 --> 01:08:18.580]  They're really fighting him, but I admire him because when he calls me up, he says,
[01:08:18.580 --> 01:08:21.500]  man, he says, I can't believe how much I'm learning.
[01:08:21.500 --> 01:08:23.820]  Go ahead, Mark.
[01:08:23.820 --> 01:08:25.900]  Make some comments.
[01:08:25.900 --> 01:08:34.060]  Yeah, and what we're trying to do with this guy is I'm going to file a motion for order
[01:08:34.060 --> 01:08:40.940]  to show cause as to why this guy should not be found in contempt of court for not obeying
[01:08:40.940 --> 01:08:45.500]  a subpoena.
[01:08:45.500 --> 01:08:49.200]  And Mark, how is that processed in the local court up there?
[01:08:49.200 --> 01:08:51.740]  You go into the clerk or how do they do that?
[01:08:51.740 --> 01:08:58.220]  Right, you file it with the clerk and in this case, because he may be in contempt of court,
[01:08:58.220 --> 01:09:04.660]  you would go right next door to the U.S. Marshal and he would be served by the U.S. Marshal.
[01:09:04.660 --> 01:09:05.660]  I love it.
[01:09:05.660 --> 01:09:12.180]  And, you know, we're not going to mention any names here, the names of the companies
[01:09:12.180 --> 01:09:13.180]  that are involved.
[01:09:13.180 --> 01:09:15.780]  You know, Mark is going to keep this business.
[01:09:15.780 --> 01:09:20.220]  I don't want his last name brought out because I don't want anything jeopardized in his case.
[01:09:20.220 --> 01:09:25.180]  But he is up against one of the bigger banks that we just got through bailing out here
[01:09:25.180 --> 01:09:28.340]  about six months ago, okay?
[01:09:28.340 --> 01:09:31.780]  So ask me if I feel sorry for that.
[01:09:31.780 --> 01:09:37.220]  Mark, did you file a bar grievance against the attorney?
[01:09:37.220 --> 01:09:40.220]  I am going to do that.
[01:09:40.220 --> 01:09:44.340]  Here in Rhode Island, it's a little strange how they do it.
[01:09:44.340 --> 01:09:50.980]  You actually have to do it through the Rhode Island Supreme Court Judiciary Council.
[01:09:50.980 --> 01:09:57.340]  The bar association out here does not handle grievances.
[01:09:57.340 --> 01:10:00.820]  Wonderful.
[01:10:00.820 --> 01:10:06.160]  The bar in Texas handles the grievance and if you file against an attorney, no matter
[01:10:06.160 --> 01:10:09.340]  what you file, they throw it in the trash.
[01:10:09.340 --> 01:10:10.340]  Yeah.
[01:10:10.340 --> 01:10:15.860]  However, their insurance company doesn't and they will kick their behinds.
[01:10:15.860 --> 01:10:21.060]  Yeah, and I was thinking I have another point here too about all of this.
[01:10:21.060 --> 01:10:27.060]  See with what Randy and Eddie and I do, we're mostly going after public servants at the
[01:10:27.060 --> 01:10:29.940]  federal and local and state level.
[01:10:29.940 --> 01:10:35.260]  So it's a little bit tougher because the judges and the prosecutors and all these people,
[01:10:35.260 --> 01:10:37.140]  they want to protect their buddies.
[01:10:37.140 --> 01:10:42.820]  But in what Mike does, these are not public servants.
[01:10:42.820 --> 01:10:46.820]  These are banksters and there is no love lost there.
[01:10:46.820 --> 01:10:52.620]  I mean the prosecutors, these judges, there's no incentive to protect them really.
[01:10:52.620 --> 01:10:54.900]  Not unless they're invested in those banks.
[01:10:54.900 --> 01:11:00.100]  Well, true, but for the most part, I think you're going to have a much easier time.
[01:11:00.100 --> 01:11:03.260]  It's not going to be as tough a road to hoe as what we do.
[01:11:03.260 --> 01:11:07.580]  And I do remember I read chapter 82 of the government code in here one night on the show
[01:11:07.580 --> 01:11:13.580]  that Texas lawyers are not even required to be morally sufficient.
[01:11:13.580 --> 01:11:18.060]  They can in fact be completely morally deficient and it's still okay for them to be a lawyer
[01:11:18.060 --> 01:11:20.500]  in Texas.
[01:11:20.500 --> 01:11:24.660]  I am looking at something I got from Tony Davis today.
[01:11:24.660 --> 01:11:27.700]  This particular document is out of California.
[01:11:27.700 --> 01:11:33.940]  It's form 700, statement of economic interest.
[01:11:33.940 --> 01:11:42.660]  And you can file this with the judge and demand to know the judge's economic interest.
[01:11:42.660 --> 01:11:49.380]  Hey, is that something Mike that we could file on concerning the opposing litigant,
[01:11:49.380 --> 01:11:53.900]  like the lawyer representing, who alleges to represent these credit card companies,
[01:11:53.900 --> 01:11:56.020]  see if he's got any economic interest?
[01:11:56.020 --> 01:11:59.500]  You know, I'm sure there's something out there that you can do.
[01:11:59.500 --> 01:12:02.860]  I haven't done that, but you know, it's called champerty.
[01:12:02.860 --> 01:12:04.380]  It's called champerty.
[01:12:04.380 --> 01:12:06.420]  It's called what, Mark?
[01:12:06.420 --> 01:12:07.420]  Champerty.
[01:12:07.420 --> 01:12:10.260]  Champerty is a little more specific.
[01:12:10.260 --> 01:12:17.580]  Champerty is where the attorney, if someone has a litigation, another person comes along
[01:12:17.580 --> 01:12:20.840]  and says, hey, that litigation is property.
[01:12:20.840 --> 01:12:24.460]  Let me buy that litigation from you.
[01:12:24.460 --> 01:12:25.460]  That's champerty.
[01:12:25.460 --> 01:12:33.940]  If the attorney buys a percentage of the suit, and that's why it's important to find out
[01:12:33.940 --> 01:12:36.140]  who the attorney really is.
[01:12:36.140 --> 01:12:42.500]  If he's a third party debt collector, that's a champertous relationship.
[01:12:42.500 --> 01:12:49.740]  But if he is actually in fact acting as agent for the principal, which they generally claim
[01:12:49.740 --> 01:12:57.220]  they are, and then we go to what Robert Fox's favorite quote, his agency cannot be proven
[01:12:57.220 --> 01:12:59.860]  out of the mouth of the agent.
[01:12:59.860 --> 01:13:03.880]  It must be proven out of the mouth of the principal.
[01:13:03.880 --> 01:13:10.300]  So if I get an attorney claiming he represents the principal, we subpoena the principal to
[01:13:10.300 --> 01:13:16.940]  testify that in fact this is his attorney, because he can't do it by affidavit.
[01:13:16.940 --> 01:13:19.500]  That's only hearsay.
[01:13:19.500 --> 01:13:21.940]  And that's a hoot.
[01:13:21.940 --> 01:13:28.020]  Another thing that happened in my case too, up here in Rhode Island, they never gave me
[01:13:28.020 --> 01:13:34.620]  a notice of consent to a magistrate, and they never gave me a consent form, because up here
[01:13:34.620 --> 01:13:40.940]  their local rule says that the clerk of the court must get permission from the judge.
[01:13:40.940 --> 01:13:45.660]  In the federal rule above it says that the clerk shall give written notice of option
[01:13:45.660 --> 01:13:47.780]  to consent with a consent form.
[01:13:47.780 --> 01:13:52.060]  And I made a big deal about that to get a motion to stay proceeding, so what does the
[01:13:52.060 --> 01:13:53.060]  judge do?
[01:13:53.060 --> 01:14:00.500]  He gives it to the magistrate judge to decide, and they turn my motion down.
[01:14:00.500 --> 01:14:06.460]  Well let me get a little clarity on this with the folks here, Mark.
[01:14:06.460 --> 01:14:10.420]  Mark filed his case and he got a deep fall judgment.
[01:14:10.420 --> 01:14:16.980]  They didn't answer in time, okay, and it was for a considerable amount.
[01:14:16.980 --> 01:14:19.740]  They didn't answer in time, is that right, Mark?
[01:14:19.740 --> 01:14:21.380]  That's correct.
[01:14:21.380 --> 01:14:25.900]  And Mark got a deep fall judgment on him, on this major bank, and of course now they're
[01:14:25.900 --> 01:14:28.580]  crying, okay.
[01:14:28.580 --> 01:14:35.820]  And I have something I've noticed, and this deep fall judgment situation, whether you're
[01:14:35.820 --> 01:14:41.700]  pro se litigant, they don't seem to want to enforce it when you're pro se.
[01:14:41.700 --> 01:14:46.460]  This is the third case I've come across in the federal courts where I've had a deep fall
[01:14:46.460 --> 01:14:47.460]  judgment.
[01:14:47.460 --> 01:14:53.900]  Mark's had one, and I know another person that's had one, and the judge will take it
[01:14:53.900 --> 01:14:59.340]  and listen to these attorneys that show up three or four days later after the due time
[01:14:59.340 --> 01:15:04.940]  is due to response time is lapsed, and cry and say, well, you didn't serve it on the
[01:15:04.940 --> 01:15:09.980]  right place, you didn't mail it to the right place, it wasn't served properly.
[01:15:09.980 --> 01:15:14.700]  And the judge will sit there, well, we see that happen, but I know in Mark's case, what
[01:15:14.700 --> 01:15:17.980]  happened in your case, Mark, when they did that?
[01:15:17.980 --> 01:15:21.980]  They kicked it down on the magistrate judge, and the lawyer got up and cried, and what
[01:15:21.980 --> 01:15:22.980]  happened?
[01:15:22.980 --> 01:15:33.420]  They set the default aside, and their excuse was that I didn't serve them properly, and
[01:15:33.420 --> 01:15:40.640]  they said, well, you know, it didn't get to the right people, and you didn't really send
[01:15:40.640 --> 01:15:49.540]  it to the right place, but they were served properly, and the magistrate threw it out
[01:15:49.540 --> 01:15:51.620]  on the condition that they accept service.
[01:15:51.620 --> 01:15:58.100]  So one of the things they said was I didn't serve the proper entity, because I named the
[01:15:58.100 --> 01:16:09.700]  defendant as Bank of America, also known as FIA Card Services, because there was a confusion
[01:16:09.700 --> 01:16:16.060]  on my part as to what was what, and who was what, and they said, well, you served and
[01:16:16.060 --> 01:16:24.100]  not an entity, and I was like, hmm, okay, that's interesting.
[01:16:24.100 --> 01:16:27.940]  But the bottom line is, didn't the judge give them a choice?
[01:16:27.940 --> 01:16:34.580]  Yes, he said that, accept service, or we're going to find for him.
[01:16:34.580 --> 01:16:40.060]  Okay, hold on, hold that thought, Mark and Mike, we're going to break here.
[01:16:40.060 --> 01:16:43.020]  We'll get back with this on the other side.
[01:16:43.020 --> 01:16:46.180]  We've got Dwayne from California waiting, and also Pat from Texas.
[01:16:46.180 --> 01:16:48.220]  You guys are up after Mark.
[01:16:48.220 --> 01:16:49.220]  So just sit tight.
[01:16:49.220 --> 01:16:54.540]  Other callers, if you'd like to get in the queue, 512-646-1984.
[01:16:54.540 --> 01:16:56.940]  We're here with Mike Maris.
[01:16:56.940 --> 01:16:59.180]  Hello, Austin.
[01:16:59.180 --> 01:17:04.900]  My name is Harlan Dietrich, owner of Brave New Books, a local independent bookstore here
[01:17:04.900 --> 01:17:05.900]  in town.
[01:17:05.900 --> 01:17:08.620]  Many of you are familiar with the bookstore and have attended some of our events.
[01:17:08.620 --> 01:17:13.060]  We've been proud to host speakers like Alex Jones, Ron Paul, Jim Mars, Katherine Albert,
[01:17:13.060 --> 01:17:17.580]  Webster Tarpley, G. Edward Griffin, and many other heroic figures in the Patriot Movement.
[01:17:17.580 --> 01:17:19.940]  But now, Brave New Books needs your help.
[01:17:19.940 --> 01:17:24.420]  In order to continue to provide a space for these events and be an outlet for hard-to-find
[01:17:24.420 --> 01:17:28.900]  materials, we're going to need you, Austin, to help spread the word about the bookstore.
[01:17:28.900 --> 01:17:32.780]  Please tell your friends and family about the wide variety of materials we offer.
[01:17:32.780 --> 01:17:36.780]  We also have DVD duplication capabilities for all you activists.
[01:17:36.780 --> 01:17:40.700]  Also, if you haven't visited us yet, please come down and show your support.
[01:17:40.700 --> 01:17:44.820]  It is so easy to support the big corporate chain stores that do nothing to further our
[01:17:44.820 --> 01:17:45.820]  message.
[01:17:45.820 --> 01:17:47.500]  Remember, you vote with your dollars.
[01:17:47.500 --> 01:17:49.260]  We're counting on you, Austin.
[01:17:49.260 --> 01:17:56.420]  If you need any information, please call 512-480-2503 or visit us at 1904 Guadalupe Street.
[01:17:56.420 --> 01:17:59.420]  Thank you, everyone.
[01:17:59.420 --> 01:18:18.180]  Okay, we are back with Michael Maris.
[01:18:18.180 --> 01:18:22.020]  Okay, Mark, go ahead.
[01:18:22.020 --> 01:18:31.860]  Yes, what I was saying was the motion to set aside default was granted by the magistrate
[01:18:31.860 --> 01:18:35.420]  to them on this technicality.
[01:18:35.420 --> 01:18:45.940]  So, you know, in my mind, they were served properly and the magistrate threw it out.
[01:18:45.940 --> 01:18:52.300]  And like Mike was saying, he's known of two other cases where these pro se litigants get
[01:18:52.300 --> 01:18:55.940]  default judgments and these lawyers show up three or four days later and they give up
[01:18:55.940 --> 01:19:02.540]  – give some stupid excuse and, you know, the court side with them.
[01:19:02.540 --> 01:19:06.840]  But if that were you and me getting a default, they'd probably show up collecting our property
[01:19:06.840 --> 01:19:07.840]  the next day.
[01:19:07.840 --> 01:19:08.840]  Yep.
[01:19:08.840 --> 01:19:09.840]  Exactly.
[01:19:09.840 --> 01:19:11.940]  Oh, yeah, there'd be a lien the next day.
[01:19:11.940 --> 01:19:12.940]  Yep.
[01:19:12.940 --> 01:19:13.940]  Yeah, exactly.
[01:19:13.940 --> 01:19:22.100]  Well, I think the thing that – Mark has now moved essentially to 26F, and he's going
[01:19:22.100 --> 01:19:28.380]  through the process of the interrogatories, the admissions and denials, production of
[01:19:28.380 --> 01:19:29.380]  documents, depositions.
[01:19:29.380 --> 01:19:35.620]  I've been through that a couple of times, and it is tedious.
[01:19:35.620 --> 01:19:40.060]  It does, you know, but most of it is all copy and paste, okay?
[01:19:40.060 --> 01:19:44.500]  It's not like you've got to sit in law books all night long and, you know, up till
[01:19:44.500 --> 01:19:47.780]  the crack of dawn trying to figure out what to ask and what to say.
[01:19:47.780 --> 01:19:53.580]  This has all been done before, and a lot of it is copy and paste.
[01:19:53.580 --> 01:19:57.420]  They – you know, we learn some new things that some of these lawyers try to pull and
[01:19:57.420 --> 01:20:00.420]  we beat them.
[01:20:00.420 --> 01:20:04.180]  I should state, by the way, Mark and I – I don't know how long we've known each other,
[01:20:04.180 --> 01:20:05.180]  Mark.
[01:20:05.180 --> 01:20:06.180]  Three years, something like that?
[01:20:06.180 --> 01:20:07.180]  Yeah, at least a few years.
[01:20:07.180 --> 01:20:08.180]  Yeah.
[01:20:08.180 --> 01:20:12.780]  And Mark and I talk several times a week.
[01:20:12.780 --> 01:20:16.220]  One of the things you'll find with this stuff, folks, is – especially when you first
[01:20:16.220 --> 01:20:18.460]  start out, is you need some support.
[01:20:18.460 --> 01:20:24.380]  You need to get into a group that understands what you're doing and, you know, somebody
[01:20:24.380 --> 01:20:25.380]  you can talk to.
[01:20:25.380 --> 01:20:31.260]  This is – this is important with this, especially when you're first starting to learn it.
[01:20:31.260 --> 01:20:36.660]  After you've learned it, you've got all the basics.
[01:20:36.660 --> 01:20:39.620]  You can get in and do this stuff without a lot of help.
[01:20:39.620 --> 01:20:42.260]  But every once in a while, you're going to come up with a question and you're going
[01:20:42.260 --> 01:20:47.060]  to need somebody that you can go back to and say, hey, this happened and how should I proceed?
[01:20:47.060 --> 01:20:49.660]  And Mark and I do a lot of that during the week.
[01:20:49.660 --> 01:20:53.380]  You know, he'll call up and, you know, hey, this happened, and we chuckle at some of the
[01:20:53.380 --> 01:20:59.060]  stuff and, you know, we discuss how we should proceed at that point.
[01:20:59.060 --> 01:21:05.100]  But Mark has become very aggressive and has learned this stuff, and he hasn't become
[01:21:05.100 --> 01:21:09.140]  discouraged, which is what half of this stuff is, by the way, folks.
[01:21:09.140 --> 01:21:15.660]  They do a lot of this stuff to try to discourage you that you'll get fed up and walk away.
[01:21:15.660 --> 01:21:17.740]  Don't do it.
[01:21:17.740 --> 01:21:18.740]  Don't do it.
[01:21:18.740 --> 01:21:23.580]  When they're doing that, you know they don't have a defense and you're going to win.
[01:21:23.580 --> 01:21:25.380]  It just takes time.
[01:21:25.380 --> 01:21:30.980]  How about the – oh, by the way, on your – when you had them serve, Mark, didn't
[01:21:30.980 --> 01:21:34.260]  you have them serve with a professional process server?
[01:21:34.260 --> 01:21:35.260]  Yes.
[01:21:35.260 --> 01:21:36.260]  Yeah.
[01:21:36.260 --> 01:21:39.420]  And didn't they provide an affidavit of service?
[01:21:39.420 --> 01:21:40.740]  They certainly did.
[01:21:40.740 --> 01:21:41.740]  Okay.
[01:21:41.740 --> 01:21:43.220]  And where did you have them serve?
[01:21:43.220 --> 01:21:45.980]  At their corporate headquarters, if I'm not mistaken.
[01:21:45.980 --> 01:21:46.980]  In Delaware.
[01:21:46.980 --> 01:21:47.980]  Yeah.
[01:21:47.980 --> 01:21:51.780]  But they weren't served properly, folks.
[01:21:51.780 --> 01:21:52.780]  Unbelievable.
[01:21:52.780 --> 01:21:53.780]  Oh, man.
[01:21:53.780 --> 01:21:54.780]  Unbelievable.
[01:21:54.780 --> 01:21:55.780]  Okay.
[01:21:55.780 --> 01:21:58.780]  The stuff that goes on.
[01:21:58.780 --> 01:21:59.780]  Yes.
[01:21:59.780 --> 01:22:02.380]  So, notice to agent is notice to principal.
[01:22:02.380 --> 01:22:03.380]  Yep.
[01:22:03.380 --> 01:22:09.700]  I hope you preserved your objection to the magistrate's ruling.
[01:22:09.700 --> 01:22:16.620]  At the time, I – it was – I never had a case go that far, and I was still kind of
[01:22:16.620 --> 01:22:22.420]  looking at rules and learning, and I missed the 10-day period to object.
[01:22:22.420 --> 01:22:28.580]  Well, as a rule, anything you don't like in court, object.
[01:22:28.580 --> 01:22:29.580]  Object quick.
[01:22:29.580 --> 01:22:30.580]  Object often.
[01:22:30.580 --> 01:22:31.580]  Right.
[01:22:31.580 --> 01:22:32.580]  Right.
[01:22:32.580 --> 01:22:33.900]  That I have learned.
[01:22:33.900 --> 01:22:34.900]  So what would be the –
[01:22:34.900 --> 01:22:39.100]  Just because you don't like nail polish color or something, you know, just object.
[01:22:39.100 --> 01:22:42.780]  I have learned how to be very objectionable in court.
[01:22:42.780 --> 01:22:47.500]  So what would be the remedy at this point since he missed the 10-day window and didn't
[01:22:47.500 --> 01:22:49.500]  object in court?
[01:22:49.500 --> 01:22:54.060]  Well, he may have waived that one.
[01:22:54.060 --> 01:22:55.060]  Yeah.
[01:22:55.060 --> 01:22:56.060]  Yeah.
[01:22:56.060 --> 01:22:57.060]  But this is how we learned.
[01:22:57.060 --> 01:22:58.060]  So what does that mean?
[01:22:58.060 --> 01:23:01.020]  Does he have to have it served again or what?
[01:23:01.020 --> 01:23:04.260]  No, I'm sure they accepted service.
[01:23:04.260 --> 01:23:06.020]  That was the condition of the magistrate.
[01:23:06.020 --> 01:23:08.780]  So there's no more question on service.
[01:23:08.780 --> 01:23:09.780]  Right.
[01:23:09.780 --> 01:23:12.500]  So now they've moved the trial, the prepare for trial.
[01:23:12.500 --> 01:23:13.500]  That's what they're doing.
[01:23:13.500 --> 01:23:16.500]  That's the rule 26F.
[01:23:16.500 --> 01:23:18.500]  You're going to trial, baby.
[01:23:18.500 --> 01:23:19.500]  And now –
[01:23:19.500 --> 01:23:23.260]  I've removed two of their defenses.
[01:23:23.260 --> 01:23:26.460]  They said they never got a letter, dispute letter from me.
[01:23:26.460 --> 01:23:28.620]  They lost it.
[01:23:28.620 --> 01:23:34.060]  And the letter they sent me when I disputed was they wanted my Social Security and account
[01:23:34.060 --> 01:23:35.820]  numbers.
[01:23:35.820 --> 01:23:37.100]  And why would they need that?
[01:23:37.100 --> 01:23:39.540]  They were already in my credit report.
[01:23:39.540 --> 01:23:44.980]  And then he was whining about the fact that they have two court judgments in Superior
[01:23:44.980 --> 01:23:46.500]  Court.
[01:23:46.500 --> 01:23:49.660]  So he started becoming a debt collector.
[01:23:49.660 --> 01:23:57.460]  And I got the lower court judgment vacated last week, so he has nothing to come after.
[01:23:57.460 --> 01:24:01.540]  Let me expand on that.
[01:24:01.540 --> 01:24:06.700]  When that happened, we got talking about that, and we were saying, you know, what is their
[01:24:06.700 --> 01:24:08.900]  defense going to be?
[01:24:08.900 --> 01:24:13.060]  And this lawyer kept saying, we never got the letter, and oh, this guy had a default
[01:24:13.060 --> 01:24:16.060]  judgment in the lower courts.
[01:24:16.060 --> 01:24:19.780]  But the case has nothing to do with money, but they're going to keep throwing that
[01:24:19.780 --> 01:24:23.460]  in there, you know, because that's their only defense.
[01:24:23.460 --> 01:24:29.460]  Well, and you stop me when I'm wrong, Mark, but they got that default judgment through
[01:24:29.460 --> 01:24:30.460]  NAF.
[01:24:30.460 --> 01:24:37.580]  If anyone has ever heard of NAF, the National Arbitration Forum.
[01:24:37.580 --> 01:24:41.100]  That's when you sign those agreements with those cards, folks.
[01:24:41.100 --> 01:24:42.100]  You can't sue us.
[01:24:42.100 --> 01:24:44.820]  You got to go to arbitration.
[01:24:44.820 --> 01:24:52.100]  Well, about a year and a half ago, the National Arbitration Forum was shut down by the attorney
[01:24:52.100 --> 01:24:57.140]  general of the state of Minnesota.
[01:24:57.140 --> 01:25:01.700]  And one of the things was for that was because they were frauds.
[01:25:01.700 --> 01:25:08.700]  They were supposed to be an independent organization, not influenced by creditors or debt collectors,
[01:25:08.700 --> 01:25:12.980]  and a debt collection company owned the National Arbitration Forum.
[01:25:12.980 --> 01:25:14.340]  Oh, man.
[01:25:14.340 --> 01:25:15.820]  Oh, yeah.
[01:25:15.820 --> 01:25:16.820]  Okay.
[01:25:16.820 --> 01:25:19.140]  This is the stuff that goes on.
[01:25:19.140 --> 01:25:20.140]  Okay.
[01:25:20.140 --> 01:25:24.020]  So they shut down, the attorney general of the state of Minnesota found that everything
[01:25:24.020 --> 01:25:25.900]  they did was fraudulent.
[01:25:25.900 --> 01:25:33.020]  So every judgment they passed has now fallen under question in the local courts.
[01:25:33.020 --> 01:25:39.340]  How that worked was when you went into the National Arbitration Forum, if they forced
[01:25:39.340 --> 01:25:43.220]  you to go in there, they'd always find you were wrong.
[01:25:43.220 --> 01:25:45.900]  The plaintiff would win, and they'd get a default judgment.
[01:25:45.900 --> 01:25:51.980]  Well, a default judgment in Minnesota is no good in Florida or Texas or California, so
[01:25:51.980 --> 01:25:53.340]  you've got to convert it.
[01:25:53.340 --> 01:25:57.340]  So you've got to get a lawyer in the state where this person lives and convert it, you've
[01:25:57.340 --> 01:25:59.340]  got one year to do it.
[01:25:59.340 --> 01:26:00.340]  And this is what happened.
[01:26:00.340 --> 01:26:05.660]  Well, when all this happened, Mark went down, he saw the Superior Court judge in the district
[01:26:05.660 --> 01:26:10.660]  court down there, whatever they are called, show the judge all this, and the judge says,
[01:26:10.660 --> 01:26:12.420]  yeah, we're going to vacate this thing.
[01:26:12.420 --> 01:26:14.420]  Totally wiped out, folks.
[01:26:14.420 --> 01:26:15.420]  Totally wiped out.
[01:26:15.420 --> 01:26:17.420]  What do you want?
[01:26:17.420 --> 01:26:22.860]  Now this lawyer had brought this into the case, he never checked the records.
[01:26:22.860 --> 01:26:25.060]  Never checked the records.
[01:26:25.060 --> 01:26:29.260]  He brought three-year-old copies into the cases, oh, we got this default judgment against
[01:26:29.260 --> 01:26:30.620]  the guy.
[01:26:30.620 --> 01:26:33.860]  And Mark did the right thing and just answered them back, and it was, I don't know what the
[01:26:33.860 --> 01:26:34.860]  heck you're talking about.
[01:26:34.860 --> 01:26:38.380]  I checked the lower courts down there, there's no default judgment on the books down there.
[01:26:38.380 --> 01:26:40.620]  How do you like that stuff?
[01:26:40.620 --> 01:26:41.620]  Oh, how embarrassing.
[01:26:41.620 --> 01:26:43.340]  That should have gotten a bar grievance.
[01:26:43.340 --> 01:26:48.700]  How embarrassing for the lawyer.
[01:26:48.700 --> 01:26:49.700]  This is hilarious.
[01:26:49.700 --> 01:26:55.300]  I've been told I can get him for fraud now if he's trying to collect on a fraudulent
[01:26:55.300 --> 01:26:56.300]  debt.
[01:26:56.300 --> 01:26:57.300]  Yup.
[01:26:57.300 --> 01:26:58.300]  Yup.
[01:26:58.300 --> 01:27:00.300]  But kicked out of the courts.
[01:27:00.300 --> 01:27:01.300]  Yup.
[01:27:01.300 --> 01:27:05.900]  So this is, again, going back, once you learn this stuff, and this was a little bit new
[01:27:05.900 --> 01:27:11.420]  for us, but we, you know, Mark proceeded, he's doing all the footwork, and, you know,
[01:27:11.420 --> 01:27:15.820]  I come in with a little of the support, and, you know, he bounces things off of me, and,
[01:27:15.820 --> 01:27:19.820]  you know, we just came up with this idea, go down, and, you know, get the judge with
[01:27:19.820 --> 01:27:20.820]  this.
[01:27:20.820 --> 01:27:27.620]  These guys are, and it was Wolff and Abramson, who was the debt collector, okay, one of the
[01:27:27.620 --> 01:27:28.620]  worst in the country.
[01:27:28.620 --> 01:27:34.020]  They've been sued so many times, and, oh, by the way, when you start doing this stuff,
[01:27:34.020 --> 01:27:39.500]  gain access to the page, go in and query these guys who you're coming up against and see
[01:27:39.500 --> 01:27:43.100]  how many times they've been sued.
[01:27:43.100 --> 01:27:49.220]  Maybe you'll get the full picture, then, of what the heck is going on.
[01:27:49.220 --> 01:27:55.780]  You go in and put in Wolff and Abramson in the federal court query system, I don't know
[01:27:55.780 --> 01:28:00.860]  how many cases you'll get back, but it would take you months to read them all.
[01:28:00.860 --> 01:28:01.860]  Wow.
[01:28:01.860 --> 01:28:09.460]  Mark, tell them about your one previous case there, where they paid you to go away.
[01:28:09.460 --> 01:28:17.900]  Yes, in that case, they used the false and misleading affidavit in the lower court.
[01:28:17.900 --> 01:28:25.860]  They had the name of the bank at the top of the affidavit with my name, Bank vs. Me, and
[01:28:25.860 --> 01:28:30.620]  the person who signed it underneath her name, it said, Media Representative, and I was like,
[01:28:30.620 --> 01:28:32.820]  what the heck does this mean?
[01:28:32.820 --> 01:28:39.220]  So I typed her name into Google, and her name came up under Edelman and Combs, which is
[01:28:39.220 --> 01:28:49.140]  a national consumer law firm out in Chicago, and I called them and I asked them who this
[01:28:49.140 --> 01:28:55.540]  lady was, and they told me that she worked for Debt Collector, had no affiliation to
[01:28:55.540 --> 01:29:02.820]  the bank, and therefore, a false and misleading affidavit was used.
[01:29:02.820 --> 01:29:07.540]  Now, the attorney in that case, I filed a bar grievance on him, or in Rhode Island,
[01:29:07.540 --> 01:29:13.180]  we don't do a bar grievance, you have to go through the Supreme Court judicial.
[01:29:13.180 --> 01:29:21.740]  They said he did nothing wrong, but that was the main component of the case, that was the
[01:29:21.740 --> 01:29:29.100]  smoking gun that helped to resolve that case in a very short period of time.
[01:29:29.100 --> 01:29:32.180]  Okay, let me help a little with the bar grievance.
[01:29:32.180 --> 01:29:37.460]  Yeah, hold on, Randy, hold that thought, because we're going to break, and Dwayne and Pat,
[01:29:37.460 --> 01:29:42.940]  we see you there, so just hang on the line, and we will take you guys, or gals, if Pat
[01:29:42.940 --> 01:29:44.300]  is a female.
[01:29:44.300 --> 01:29:47.660]  So we'll be right back, Mark, hang on the line as well.
[01:29:47.660 --> 01:29:52.060]  This is the rule of law, pro se litigants, I'm telling you, we're beating them up.
[01:29:52.060 --> 01:29:59.500]  We're beating up these attorneys massively, massively.
[01:29:59.500 --> 01:30:02.660]  Are you the plaintiff or defendant in a lawsuit?
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[01:31:20.900 --> 01:31:26.020]  Okay, we are back.
[01:31:26.020 --> 01:31:33.060]  This is the rule of law with a very special guest, Mike Maris, and he's got a guest here
[01:31:33.060 --> 01:31:37.100]  with us as well, Mark from Rhode Island.
[01:31:37.100 --> 01:31:41.820]  And Randy, you were just about to address the issue of why not to be discouraged if
[01:31:41.820 --> 01:31:44.340]  the Supreme Court throws out the bar grievance?
[01:31:44.340 --> 01:31:45.780]  Oh yeah.
[01:31:45.780 --> 01:31:51.940]  You see, most everywhere in the country, if you file a bar grievance against an attorney,
[01:31:51.940 --> 01:31:56.740]  whoever handles the grievances, be it the bar itself or the Supreme Court, they're going
[01:31:56.740 --> 01:31:58.700]  to throw it in the trash.
[01:31:58.700 --> 01:32:02.940]  They're going to say, oh yeah, he's one of our buddies, he's okay.
[01:32:02.940 --> 01:32:07.180]  Your complaint does not rise to the level of misconduct, throw it in the trash.
[01:32:07.180 --> 01:32:13.260]  And that's a good thing because their insurance carrier knows they're going to throw it in
[01:32:13.260 --> 01:32:15.060]  the trash.
[01:32:15.060 --> 01:32:18.300]  So how are they going to gauge their level of risk?
[01:32:18.300 --> 01:32:19.300]  By valid bar grievances?
[01:32:19.300 --> 01:32:23.540]  Heck, throw them all in the trash, by the numbers.
[01:32:23.540 --> 01:32:28.140]  You can file a bar grievance against an attorney accusing him of parting his hair on the wrong
[01:32:28.140 --> 01:32:31.020]  side and it counts.
[01:32:31.020 --> 01:32:38.660]  In Texas, one bar grievance your first year of practice, they will cancel your malpractice
[01:32:38.660 --> 01:32:40.940]  insurance immediately.
[01:32:40.940 --> 01:32:44.740]  Two bar grievances, any one year of practice, if you've been practicing 20 years, they'll
[01:32:44.740 --> 01:32:47.260]  cancel your malpractice insurance.
[01:32:47.260 --> 01:32:51.420]  Three bar grievances, they'll cancel your law firm's malpractice insurance.
[01:32:51.420 --> 01:32:56.180]  That is their weak underbelly and you will never hear a squeak from them.
[01:32:56.180 --> 01:33:00.300]  And it doesn't matter whether the bar grievances are legitimate or not, it just matters that
[01:33:00.300 --> 01:33:01.580]  they've been filed.
[01:33:01.580 --> 01:33:02.580]  Right.
[01:33:02.580 --> 01:33:08.500]  So I don't suggest filing bogus bar grievances, but you don't need to.
[01:33:08.500 --> 01:33:11.220]  You get plenty of options to file good ones.
[01:33:11.220 --> 01:33:14.220]  They're going to throw them in the trash and don't be upset about that.
[01:33:14.220 --> 01:33:15.780]  Not a problem.
[01:33:15.780 --> 01:33:21.700]  When that guy goes to get his malpractice insurance next time, he has a big problem.
[01:33:21.700 --> 01:33:27.800]  Russell Mortland filed three against an attorney in a bankruptcy.
[01:33:27.800 --> 01:33:30.840]  They changed law firms in the middle of the bankruptcy.
[01:33:30.840 --> 01:33:35.220]  At the end, the first attorney came back and complained on the stand of the court that
[01:33:35.220 --> 01:33:40.740]  Mr. Russell Mortland filed three bar grievances against me and the next year our law firm
[01:33:40.740 --> 01:33:45.260]  almost couldn't get malpractice insurance and when we did, it almost doubled.
[01:33:45.260 --> 01:33:47.980]  What is that sound I hear?
[01:33:47.980 --> 01:33:50.900]  It's the tiniest violin in the world.
[01:33:50.900 --> 01:33:53.540]  Yeah, that's what Russell said.
[01:33:53.540 --> 01:33:59.140]  The point is, but the point of this is, is there's only about nine companies in the United
[01:33:59.140 --> 01:34:02.620]  States that do the malpractice insurance.
[01:34:02.620 --> 01:34:08.060]  So where they really get hurt is on their insurance.
[01:34:08.060 --> 01:34:12.340]  And when you file a bar grievance, it becomes secret.
[01:34:12.340 --> 01:34:18.860]  And the problem the attorney has, if I file a bar grievance against an attorney and he
[01:34:18.860 --> 01:34:24.180]  comes into court and complains about it or says something to me about it, I'll file a
[01:34:24.180 --> 01:34:28.420]  bar grievance on him for that because he's forbidden to.
[01:34:28.420 --> 01:34:34.020]  So you kick him in his teeth and he's just got to take it, he can't even complain about
[01:34:34.020 --> 01:34:35.020]  it.
[01:34:35.020 --> 01:34:37.020]  Oh, I love it.
[01:34:37.020 --> 01:34:38.020]  Right.
[01:34:38.020 --> 01:34:39.020]  Okay.
[01:34:39.020 --> 01:34:42.020]  Well, let's go back to our guest and his guest, Mark.
[01:34:42.020 --> 01:34:45.020]  Do you have a, yeah, what else do you have for us?
[01:34:45.020 --> 01:34:50.900]  Well, you know, as I said, Mark and I have been working together, Mark and I have never
[01:34:50.900 --> 01:34:54.500]  met personally face to face, okay.
[01:34:54.500 --> 01:34:59.860]  But you work with people after a while, you get to know them and we become like brothers,
[01:34:59.860 --> 01:35:00.860]  I think.
[01:35:00.860 --> 01:35:03.860]  Don't sue me, Mark.
[01:35:03.860 --> 01:35:15.100]  But he started out doing this, he's learned a lot, some of it's become very tedious.
[01:35:15.100 --> 01:35:18.340]  Right now this one has become very tedious.
[01:35:18.340 --> 01:35:22.340]  I'm pretty sure I know the outcome of where this whole thing is going to go.
[01:35:22.340 --> 01:35:25.060]  But they're trying to discourage him.
[01:35:25.060 --> 01:35:32.420]  I want you to bring up, Mark, about the situation with their legal representative there in their
[01:35:32.420 --> 01:35:35.220]  corporate headquarters pulling your credit reports.
[01:35:35.220 --> 01:35:36.220]  Yes.
[01:35:36.220 --> 01:35:46.140]  During the litigation, they had an attorney liaison for the bank pull copies of my TransUnion
[01:35:46.140 --> 01:35:53.380]  and Experian credit reports and I did a request for production of documents and the attorneys
[01:35:53.380 --> 01:35:58.860]  up here have copies of those credit reports.
[01:35:58.860 --> 01:36:07.900]  So they have violated federal law as well too by possessing the credit reports, they've
[01:36:07.900 --> 01:36:15.660]  viewed them, they've accessed them and it adds another twist to the case of them not
[01:36:15.660 --> 01:36:22.780]  having a permissible purpose to pull my credit reports because there's tons of case law which
[01:36:22.780 --> 01:36:28.900]  support that it's impermissible to pull a credit report during litigation, there's no
[01:36:28.900 --> 01:36:33.540]  permissible purpose for it.
[01:36:33.540 --> 01:36:42.620]  The other thing that falls under, Mark, and we have tons of case law in the federal courts
[01:36:42.620 --> 01:36:47.380]  on that, that you can't pull somebody's, bottom line, you can't pull somebody's credit report
[01:36:47.380 --> 01:36:48.380]  during litigation period.
[01:36:48.380 --> 01:36:54.340]  These guys are just arrogant and they go ahead and do it, but the point is it also kicks
[01:36:54.340 --> 01:36:55.340]  in Title 18.
[01:36:55.340 --> 01:36:59.740]  Tell them a little bit about Title 18 on that, Mark.
[01:36:59.740 --> 01:37:10.140]  Title 18, there's a fine, an imprisonment of not greater than two years.
[01:37:10.140 --> 01:37:15.980]  We don't make the laws up, folks, these are on the books, okay?
[01:37:15.980 --> 01:37:19.980]  So I don't understand what this attorney is doing, okay?
[01:37:19.980 --> 01:37:22.980]  He's really jeopardizing himself.
[01:37:22.980 --> 01:37:32.380]  He's got these credit reports from this liaison, liaison attorney within the companies who's
[01:37:32.380 --> 01:37:37.660]  the defendant, she pulled them, she then sent them to the lawyer and the lawyer shared it
[01:37:37.660 --> 01:37:40.620]  with his assistant.
[01:37:40.620 --> 01:37:43.260]  That's right.
[01:37:43.260 --> 01:37:49.820]  So I want to see what's going to happen with this because this has taken this whole case
[01:37:49.820 --> 01:37:55.420]  a step further under the Title 18 stuff and I don't think you've even hit it with that
[01:37:55.420 --> 01:37:56.420]  yet, Mark.
[01:37:56.420 --> 01:37:57.420]  Have you?
[01:37:57.420 --> 01:38:04.380]  I'm bringing it up in the pre-trial memorandum and it asks for other matters that you would
[01:38:04.380 --> 01:38:10.300]  like to bring up at trial and that's, I'm saying, yeah, I'm going to bring up the fact
[01:38:10.300 --> 01:38:13.380]  that they pulled my credit reports.
[01:38:13.380 --> 01:38:15.700]  Yep, yep, yep.
[01:38:15.700 --> 01:38:20.660]  Now correct me if I'm wrong, was there something said, did you say something to the judge and
[01:38:20.660 --> 01:38:24.660]  the judge said something about having to go to the district attorney on that or something?
[01:38:24.660 --> 01:38:29.460]  Yeah, at the settlement conference the magistrate said, well, you know, this is civil, we don't
[01:38:29.460 --> 01:38:32.620]  really deal with criminal matters here.
[01:38:32.620 --> 01:38:36.100]  He said, you know, I don't know, you may want to go to the police or, you know, he didn't
[01:38:36.100 --> 01:38:39.420]  really have a straightforward answer.
[01:38:39.420 --> 01:38:45.540]  Oh, hold on, hold on, he's a magistrate.
[01:38:45.540 --> 01:38:47.220]  Yeah.
[01:38:47.220 --> 01:38:50.260]  Magistrates have a very specific duty.
[01:38:50.260 --> 01:38:51.660]  Yeah.
[01:38:51.660 --> 01:38:57.540]  When they're made known that a crime's been committed, that's what magistrates were created
[01:38:57.540 --> 01:39:01.540]  for, to hear criminal complaints.
[01:39:01.540 --> 01:39:08.700]  This stuff of hearing civil matters was added later on to give them something to do, but
[01:39:08.700 --> 01:39:17.620]  since the time of the Magna Carta, 1216, magistrates have been in place for the purpose of hearing
[01:39:17.620 --> 01:39:20.380]  criminal complaints.
[01:39:20.380 --> 01:39:24.140]  The magistrate failed to perform his duty.
[01:39:24.140 --> 01:39:28.740]  He said he never heard of the law where it says you can't pull credit reports.
[01:39:28.740 --> 01:39:31.780]  That's what he told me.
[01:39:31.780 --> 01:39:35.300]  You know, these people really need to know the law.
[01:39:35.300 --> 01:39:40.380]  If they are going to be engaging in lawsuits like this.
[01:39:40.380 --> 01:39:46.820]  Well, how many cases did we find, or did you find, Mark?
[01:39:46.820 --> 01:39:51.460]  I know there was a couple out in the 10th Circuit Federal Court that adjudicated this
[01:39:51.460 --> 01:39:59.740]  kind of stuff, but approximately how many cases did you reference in your documents?
[01:39:59.740 --> 01:40:02.860]  In regards to pulling the credit report, I would say at least 20.
[01:40:02.860 --> 01:40:03.860]  Yeah.
[01:40:03.860 --> 01:40:04.860]  Yeah.
[01:40:04.860 --> 01:40:12.380]  So, you know, here's the judge, he's a federal judge, and you know, we're no nothing pro
[01:40:12.380 --> 01:40:13.380]  se litigants.
[01:40:13.380 --> 01:40:22.100]  We find the case law, we find the cases, and he's like, I don't know about that.
[01:40:22.100 --> 01:40:24.580]  You might say that he's screwed.
[01:40:24.580 --> 01:40:25.940]  Yeah.
[01:40:25.940 --> 01:40:26.940]  Screws VUS.
[01:40:26.940 --> 01:40:27.940]  Yeah.
[01:40:27.940 --> 01:40:34.100]  I think it's 93 US 361, I believe.
[01:40:34.100 --> 01:40:42.460]  But it's an issue where someone was sued in the state for killing a guy, and some deputies,
[01:40:42.460 --> 01:40:43.820]  and then they were sued again.
[01:40:43.820 --> 01:40:47.980]  They were sued in the state for torts.
[01:40:47.980 --> 01:40:53.100]  They were sued in the federal for civil rights violations, and claimed they didn't have adequate
[01:40:53.100 --> 01:40:58.540]  notice in what the court said, that a private citizen can't claim ignorance of the law as
[01:40:58.540 --> 01:40:59.540]  a defense.
[01:40:59.540 --> 01:41:04.100]  A public official in a position to affect the rights of a citizen is held to a much
[01:41:04.100 --> 01:41:05.900]  higher standard.
[01:41:05.900 --> 01:41:13.260]  If a public official violates a ruling of this court, and he be sane, he may not be
[01:41:13.260 --> 01:41:16.980]  heard to say he knows not what he does.
[01:41:16.980 --> 01:41:23.980]  So my first question always to the public official is, are you insane?
[01:41:23.980 --> 01:41:31.180]  That gets objection, I asked for sidebar, I quote them screws, his only defense against
[01:41:31.180 --> 01:41:39.540]  an allocation of official misconduct is if he is insane.
[01:41:39.540 --> 01:41:45.180]  If he's not insane, then he knew exactly what he was doing.
[01:41:45.180 --> 01:41:49.880]  I actually had that upheld, and a DPS officer had to answer the question once.
[01:41:49.880 --> 01:41:51.140]  That was a hoot.
[01:41:51.140 --> 01:41:52.140]  That's pretty funny.
[01:41:52.140 --> 01:42:04.140]  If you get into this stuff, and I mean we're here on something that's pretty simple, the
[01:42:04.140 --> 01:42:10.300]  fair credit debt collection, it's pretty cut and dry, but it just amazes me the tangents
[01:42:10.300 --> 01:42:16.820]  that these guys go on, and the things they do that force you to learn more.
[01:42:16.820 --> 01:42:20.940]  And again, the upside to this whole thing is once you learn this stuff, nobody's going
[01:42:20.940 --> 01:42:22.300]  to mess with you.
[01:42:22.300 --> 01:42:25.460]  Nobody's going to mess with you.
[01:42:25.460 --> 01:42:32.420]  You welcome calls from debt collectors, because you're going to know what to do with them.
[01:42:32.420 --> 01:42:36.700]  And you'll make a little money on the side doing it when you go after them.
[01:42:36.700 --> 01:42:41.700]  You know, pay me to go away.
[01:42:41.700 --> 01:42:46.340]  So it's become quite interesting.
[01:42:46.340 --> 01:42:53.500]  I know Mark always tells me, he says, man, I'm learning a lot here, I'm finding it really
[01:42:53.500 --> 01:43:02.700]  interesting, and I'm thinking, man, Mark, you're a glut for punishment.
[01:43:02.700 --> 01:43:06.340]  He sounds to me like he's having entirely too much fun with this.
[01:43:06.340 --> 01:43:07.340]  I agree.
[01:43:07.340 --> 01:43:08.340]  It sounds like great fun.
[01:43:08.340 --> 01:43:11.220]  I find it extremely interesting.
[01:43:11.220 --> 01:43:19.100]  Well, the thing is, once you learn it, you will know so much, you're going to know more
[01:43:19.100 --> 01:43:20.100]  than these guys.
[01:43:20.100 --> 01:43:22.220]  When you come up against them, you're going to bury them.
[01:43:22.220 --> 01:43:23.660]  That's what it boils down to.
[01:43:23.660 --> 01:43:27.300]  It sounds like it doesn't take much to be able to do that either.
[01:43:27.300 --> 01:43:28.300]  No, no.
[01:43:28.300 --> 01:43:32.700]  Should I tell them what the lawyer said to me?
[01:43:32.700 --> 01:43:34.700]  Okay, wait, hold that thought.
[01:43:34.700 --> 01:43:36.420]  Wait till we come back.
[01:43:36.420 --> 01:43:38.500]  Yeah, wait till we come back, because we're about to go on break.
[01:43:38.500 --> 01:43:40.420]  Yeah, I want to hear what the lawyer said to you, Mark.
[01:43:40.420 --> 01:43:41.900]  This is awesome stuff.
[01:43:41.900 --> 01:43:44.900]  Dwayne and Pax, I'm sorry, I misread the screen.
[01:43:44.900 --> 01:43:45.900]  It's Pax.
[01:43:45.900 --> 01:43:52.260]  We'll get to you guys in just a moment when we finish up with Mark from Rhode Island.
[01:43:52.260 --> 01:43:54.220]  Mike Mirris is a very special guest.
[01:43:54.220 --> 01:44:05.780]  We'll be right back.
[01:44:05.780 --> 01:44:27.940]  We'll
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[01:45:14.820 --> 01:45:42.460]  Okay, we are back. And we do have the phone lines open. I know we are taking an extra
[01:45:42.460 --> 01:45:49.700]  length of time with Mark here. Mark is actually our guest guest, so please bear with us. Dwayne
[01:45:49.700 --> 01:45:54.340]  from California, I know you're waiting for a long time. Please forgive us. When we finish
[01:45:54.340 --> 01:45:57.440]  up with Mark, Dwayne, if you want to call back, we will put you at the head of the queue
[01:45:57.440 --> 01:46:02.860]  because you were next. We have Pax from Texas waiting in the wings as well. Okay, we are
[01:46:02.860 --> 01:46:12.140]  going back to Mark, who is Mike's guest. So, okay, Mark, tell us, what did the lawyer tell
[01:46:12.140 --> 01:46:19.260]  you? This is funny. After I found out that the lady in Delaware pulled the credit reports,
[01:46:19.260 --> 01:46:24.340]  I called him up to put them on notice that they pulled my credit reports and they couldn't
[01:46:24.340 --> 01:46:28.900]  do that. And I would probably have to write up another action. And he told me to go ahead
[01:46:28.900 --> 01:46:35.060]  and do it. And then he said, why don't you stick to being a chiropractor? Because that's
[01:46:35.060 --> 01:46:40.380]  what I do for a living. And he said, why don't you let me be the lawyer? And before I could
[01:46:40.380 --> 01:46:50.100]  say anything, he hung up on me. He hung up because he was afraid you would tell him because
[01:46:50.100 --> 01:46:59.940]  you're a chump. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, that's the second step in this thing is obviously
[01:46:59.940 --> 01:47:04.460]  the case the way it is right now, they're not going to let Mark amend the complaint
[01:47:04.460 --> 01:47:12.700]  and have these other two charges in because the case has moved along too far at this point.
[01:47:12.700 --> 01:47:18.220]  But what Mark can do is just go file another complaint for pulling, no permissible purpose
[01:47:18.220 --> 01:47:26.740]  for pulling the credit report. And what was the other one, Mark? Not having the systems
[01:47:26.740 --> 01:47:31.740]  in place to prevent errors from happening. Right. Then when the lawyer jumped up in the
[01:47:31.740 --> 01:47:36.180]  courtroom and he told the judge, we lost the documents, we don't have the paper trail.
[01:47:36.180 --> 01:47:42.340]  So we can file another complaint against them. Okay. And we could start again, folks. We
[01:47:42.340 --> 01:47:52.380]  could do it one more time. That's what I like about it. I'm going to suggest Mark, did you
[01:47:52.380 --> 01:47:56.140]  have anything else that you wanted to add or can we get the next caller?
[01:47:56.140 --> 01:48:01.900]  I'd like to give other people opportunity to get some of your wisdom.
[01:48:01.900 --> 01:48:08.700]  Yeah. Well, I don't know how much it's wisdom, but as opposed to doing the stuff. But I appreciate
[01:48:08.700 --> 01:48:13.260]  you coming on tonight and I know I'm going to talk to you over the weekend.
[01:48:13.260 --> 01:48:17.140]  Great. This is wonderful. Thank you, Mark.
[01:48:17.140 --> 01:48:19.980]  You're welcome. Talk to you later.
[01:48:19.980 --> 01:48:20.980]  Have a good evening. Bye.
[01:48:20.980 --> 01:48:21.980]  You too, bud.
[01:48:21.980 --> 01:48:27.820]  Okay. Okay. Sorry. We would have gone to Dwayne in California who's been waiting very patiently.
[01:48:27.820 --> 01:48:32.940]  He dropped off the line. Dwayne, if you call back in, you will be next. So in the meantime,
[01:48:32.940 --> 01:48:37.700]  we're going to go to Pax in Texas. Pax, thanks for calling in. What's on your mind tonight?
[01:48:37.700 --> 01:48:43.580]  Not much. I really appreciate it and the wait is no problem. I actually really appreciate
[01:48:43.580 --> 01:48:49.620]  the conversation and I hope to be on topic. So everything that I hear so far is that you're
[01:48:49.620 --> 01:48:58.620]  engaging the court system and what I'm wondering is have you had any success with denying the
[01:48:58.620 --> 01:49:06.140]  court's jurisdiction and doing, excuse my simplification, but the acknowledgement of
[01:49:06.140 --> 01:49:10.020]  you're a straw man basically and you're a legal person?
[01:49:10.020 --> 01:49:16.860]  Yeah. No, I haven't done anything like that, but one of the things I will get into a little
[01:49:16.860 --> 01:49:26.060]  bit here is about the local courts. This is one of the things that goes on. They try to
[01:49:26.060 --> 01:49:31.020]  get you into that local court either to sue you for an alleged debt or alleged account.
[01:49:31.020 --> 01:49:38.300]  It's very difficult to deal in the local courts. Again, it's the old buddy system in place
[01:49:38.300 --> 01:49:43.500]  and they see these debt collector attorneys in the court several times a week and they
[01:49:43.500 --> 01:49:48.620]  know each other and they just hope you don't show up so they can get the full judgment,
[01:49:48.620 --> 01:49:54.940]  but it is a more difficult situation there. The federal court to me is so laid back and
[01:49:54.940 --> 01:50:03.660]  it's so organized. You get in there and you go to a local court, they want everything
[01:50:03.660 --> 01:50:12.540]  next week. You go in the federal court, okay, give us that 45 days. If you go in a federal
[01:50:12.540 --> 01:50:17.740]  court, I've had people who've walked in there and said to me, I went up to the courtroom,
[01:50:17.740 --> 01:50:23.100]  there's nobody in the courtroom. Yeah, I know. I've been there a few times myself. You walk
[01:50:23.100 --> 01:50:28.460]  in and the only one you deal with is the clerk of the court, okay? You don't even see a judge
[01:50:28.460 --> 01:50:32.540]  and it's like a 10 minute wait sometimes because there might be somebody in front of you and
[01:50:32.540 --> 01:50:41.660]  that's it. And a lot of these cases, a lot of the cases that I've been involved with,
[01:50:41.660 --> 01:50:48.060]  I've never even been in front of a judge. Never in front of a judge. They settle before
[01:50:48.060 --> 01:50:56.860]  they go in front of that judge. That's amazing. That's what makes me think is if you could
[01:50:56.860 --> 01:51:02.140]  actually approach it so that you don't even actually have to, for use of the term, step
[01:51:02.140 --> 01:51:10.380]  onto their court and prevent that from going from the first place. Well, see, Pax, remember,
[01:51:10.380 --> 01:51:16.860]  Mike's method, he's not in a defensive posture. He's not trying to defend himself from actions
[01:51:16.860 --> 01:51:21.500]  that other entities are taking against him. He's a plaintiff. He's going after them under civil
[01:51:21.500 --> 01:51:26.940]  rights violations. So he's using the courts to his advantage in these situations.
[01:51:26.940 --> 01:51:31.900]  Right. He has invoked the court's jurisdiction, so he wants it.
[01:51:31.900 --> 01:51:36.620]  Yeah, exactly. He's invoked the court's jurisdiction. He wants it. So it's a whole
[01:51:36.620 --> 01:51:41.100]  different ball game than when like, say, for example, like the system or public servants
[01:51:41.100 --> 01:51:45.660]  are after you and then you're in a defensive posture. No, thank you. Thank you for that
[01:51:45.660 --> 01:51:50.860]  clarification. Actually, that's actually right on. And yeah, so he's actually moving the courts,
[01:51:50.860 --> 01:51:57.500]  the boat, if you will, for your team. Yeah, no, that's an excellent point.
[01:51:57.500 --> 01:52:04.380]  Well, I really do appreciate everything that y'all are doing and the information. And yeah,
[01:52:04.380 --> 01:52:09.660]  I just wanted to bring that up and I was a little slipped on that side. But hey,
[01:52:09.660 --> 01:52:13.420]  keep it up and much love to y'all. Thank you, Pax.
[01:52:13.420 --> 01:52:17.660]  Thank you very much. Yeah, y'all take care and God bless.
[01:52:17.660 --> 01:52:22.540]  God bless. Yeah. And it's an excellent question, too, because on this network,
[01:52:22.540 --> 01:52:26.220]  there are other shows that discuss these kinds of commercial issues in the straw man. Agenda
[01:52:26.220 --> 01:52:32.700]  21 Talk discusses commercial issues in the straw man and things like that to protect yourself,
[01:52:32.700 --> 01:52:40.060]  becoming toxic to the system, so to speak. So you can't be bonded concerning crimes that they may
[01:52:40.060 --> 01:52:45.180]  allege you have committed and things like this. But when you're the plaintiff, when you go after
[01:52:45.180 --> 01:52:51.420]  them, then you actually do want to invoke the court's jurisdiction. You do want to use those
[01:52:51.420 --> 01:52:56.540]  statutes to your advantage. So all right, at this point in time, we don't have any other callers on
[01:52:56.540 --> 01:53:04.220]  the board. So callers, if you'd like to call in 512-646-1984, Dwayne from California, if you
[01:53:04.220 --> 01:53:08.700]  would like to call back in, we'll put you at the head of the queue. You'll be next up in line.
[01:53:08.700 --> 01:53:16.220]  In the meantime, Eddie, I think you had a question for Mike. Yes, I do. Good evening, Mr. Moser.
[01:53:16.220 --> 01:53:24.700]  Hey, man. Okay, here's what I've got. I have a friend of mine who, her husband passed away here
[01:53:24.700 --> 01:53:35.180]  recently. Her husband was utilizing for his estate's attorney, the most crooked lawyer anywhere on this
[01:53:35.180 --> 01:53:42.860]  side of Texas. And I can say this with all honesty, as I know the man personally. Now, almost
[01:53:42.860 --> 01:53:50.860]  immediately upon the estate falling into this attorney's hands, all these credit card debts
[01:53:50.860 --> 01:54:00.780]  started showing up for thousands of dollars. And this attorney was recommending to this lady that
[01:54:00.780 --> 01:54:12.300]  she pay them. Of course. And my question is, one, how do we go about finding out whether or not
[01:54:12.300 --> 01:54:17.260]  this attorney cut a deal with the insurance company to be a beneficiary of the amounts paid?
[01:54:20.220 --> 01:54:25.980]  Good question. Because I'm willing to bet you that's exactly what this man did. He got a cut of
[01:54:25.980 --> 01:54:33.820]  the money for getting her to pay it in a deal with the credit card company. Yeah. Yeah. He was
[01:54:33.820 --> 01:54:43.500]  acting as a debt collector. Okay. I'm not sure how I would proceed on that. It's a very interesting
[01:54:43.500 --> 01:54:54.540]  situation. I have no doubt that stuff like that happens. And I'm not sure, you know, has it all
[01:54:54.540 --> 01:55:00.220]  been settled? Has everything been paid off? Not all of them. There's still a couple of small ones
[01:55:00.220 --> 01:55:06.620]  left. Wonder of wonders. They didn't get paid first. Yeah. It was only the big one for over
[01:55:06.620 --> 01:55:13.980]  $7,000. Yeah. That he jumped on immediately to say, let's get that one paid. Yeah. Basically,
[01:55:13.980 --> 01:55:18.700]  what's happening is, is all the money that was left to this lady in the estate is being bled
[01:55:18.700 --> 01:55:26.300]  off by this attorney to pay these debts that she did not accrue. Yeah. So this is in the deceased
[01:55:26.300 --> 01:55:32.300]  husband's name? Correct. These debts? Correct. Yeah. It's getting a little thin ice for me,
[01:55:32.300 --> 01:55:41.180]  but here would be my suggestion, what I would do. I would send them the typical dispute letter.
[01:55:41.180 --> 01:55:47.740]  I'm going to guess that by any chance was she authorized to use her on any of those cards?
[01:55:47.740 --> 01:55:53.500]  Do you know? I don't know directly, but I don't think so, because she was not aware of these
[01:55:53.500 --> 01:56:00.140]  debts were outstanding, if they actually even exist. Yeah. Because I also would not put it
[01:56:00.140 --> 01:56:04.780]  past this attorney. See, the only thing in any of the paperwork that was given her by this attorney
[01:56:05.340 --> 01:56:12.780]  is a bunch of affidavits, which mean nothing. I think, yeah. Yeah. And that's all she was given
[01:56:12.780 --> 01:56:18.860]  to certify these debts. And I wouldn't be surprised if he just cooked them up and kept the money.
[01:56:18.860 --> 01:56:24.540]  That would not surprise me about this man at all. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Are they by any chance
[01:56:25.260 --> 01:56:30.540]  in her credit report for any of this stuff? Do you know? I don't know, but I can find out.
[01:56:30.540 --> 01:56:35.740]  She's actually should be listening into the show tonight to hear this information. Well,
[01:56:35.740 --> 01:56:41.660]  I think the first thing I would do is if I was her, I'd pull my credit reports and find out if
[01:56:41.660 --> 01:56:46.060]  they're in there, because they have a tendency that when there's a husband and wife, even though
[01:56:46.780 --> 01:56:52.140]  the wife may not be on the card, if the husband defaults or the wife defaults, they go after the
[01:56:52.140 --> 01:56:57.900]  other party as well. So that's the first thing I would do is pull my credit report to see if they're
[01:56:57.900 --> 01:57:04.700]  reporting anything in there. And then if they are, then you could use the process that I advocate
[01:57:04.700 --> 01:57:10.620]  and send them a dispute letter, prove to me I owe you something. I don't know why you're in my credit
[01:57:10.620 --> 01:57:16.060]  report. You don't help them. Don't give them count numbers, just the plain, simple dispute letter,
[01:57:16.780 --> 01:57:21.900]  your name addressed, and that's it. And what are you doing to my credit report? What's this about?
[01:57:23.020 --> 01:57:28.700]  And let them come back and show you that you owe something. Let me ask a question on this issue.
[01:57:28.700 --> 01:57:35.180]  Can she pull her deceased husband's credit reports? I don't see why she couldn't. She's
[01:57:35.180 --> 01:57:40.700]  probably... She's the executor of the estate, so she probably could. Because what if it's just a
[01:57:40.700 --> 01:57:46.460]  fraudulent thing? What if this attorney just made the whole thing up and these alleged creditors
[01:57:46.460 --> 01:57:52.700]  are not even in her deceased husband's credit report? That's correct. And yes, she could do
[01:57:52.700 --> 01:57:57.180]  that. And I'm sure she's got a social security number. And basically, that's all you need to
[01:57:57.180 --> 01:58:01.660]  do to get a credit report is you've got somebody's social security number. So she probably really
[01:58:01.660 --> 01:58:07.580]  should pull both. I would say so, but she can do that free if she hasn't utilized your yearly
[01:58:07.580 --> 01:58:15.820]  free credit report, which was passed by law a few years ago. I'll come back and tell you where you
[01:58:15.820 --> 01:58:21.100]  can find that. Okay, excellent. And we've got Mark from Wisconsin, Alan from California, and we'll
[01:58:21.100 --> 01:58:25.100]  be taking your calls right on the other side of the top of the hour break with the top of the hour
[01:58:25.100 --> 01:58:31.980]  news, INN World Report. We'll be right back with our very special guest, Mike Maris. Callers,
[01:58:31.980 --> 01:59:01.820]  if you'd like to call in 512-646-1984. This is Debra Stevens from Rule of Law Radio,
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