[00:00.000 --> 00:05.500]  This news brief brought to you by the International News Next.
[00:05.500 --> 00:10.520]  Former British Prime Minister Tony Blair is set to become EU President within weeks if
[00:10.520 --> 00:16.200]  Ireland votes yes in its referendum on the Lisbon Treaty Saturday.
[00:16.200 --> 00:23.520]  A new poll finds that 56% of American Jews support a US military strike against Iran.
[00:23.520 --> 00:30.120]  Asked whether Israel should attack Iran, 66% say they would support such a move.
[00:30.120 --> 00:35.720]  Rival Islamist rebels battled in the port of Kismayo in Somalia Thursday, killing at
[00:35.720 --> 00:37.600]  least 20 people.
[00:37.600 --> 00:47.520]  The rebel-held port is a lucrative source of taxes and other income.
[00:47.520 --> 00:53.480]  Public prosecutors in Italy have urged a court in Milan to jail 26 Americans for the kidnap
[00:53.480 --> 00:59.040]  of a terrorism suspect in a 2003 CIA operation.
[00:59.040 --> 01:05.320]  The Italian lawyers are seeking sentences of between 10 and 13 years for the US agents.
[01:05.320 --> 01:11.080]  They also want 13 years for the former head of Italy's secret service Niccolo Polari.
[01:11.080 --> 01:16.400]  The trial is the most high-profile case in Europe to challenge the extrajudicial transfers
[01:16.400 --> 01:18.060]  known as renditions.
[01:18.060 --> 01:22.680]  It centres on the abduction of the Muslim cleric Abu Omar, who was snatched off the
[01:22.680 --> 01:27.240]  streets of Milan and secretly flown to Egypt for interrogation.
[01:27.240 --> 01:32.480]  Omar says he was tortured and held until 2007 without charge.
[01:32.480 --> 01:37.600]  None of the Americans are at the trial as the US has refused to extradite them.
[01:37.600 --> 01:45.280]  The Bush administration admitted using rendition as part of its war on terror.
[01:45.280 --> 01:50.600]  Iran agreed in principle Thursday to export enriched uranium for processing and to open
[01:50.600 --> 01:56.160]  its newly revealed enrichment plant to UN inspections within two weeks.
[01:56.160 --> 02:02.040]  The agreements struck at negotiations in Geneva with six major powers represented the most
[02:02.040 --> 02:06.280]  significant progress in talks with Tehran in three decades.
[02:06.280 --> 02:11.760]  Western officials cautioned the preliminary agreements could unravel in negotiating the
[02:11.760 --> 02:13.040]  details.
[02:13.040 --> 02:17.760]  But if the deals are completed, it will push back the looming threat of further sanctions
[02:17.760 --> 02:19.520]  and possible military action.
[02:19.520 --> 02:26.920]  At a lunchtime break, the US delegate William Burns took aside Iran's chief nuclear negotiator
[02:26.920 --> 02:31.400]  Saeed Jalili for a one-on-one chat lasting 40 minutes.
[02:31.400 --> 02:36.080]  The most concrete gain was an agreement for Iran to send a significant quantity of its
[02:36.080 --> 02:42.400]  stockpile of low enriched uranium for further enriching and processing in Russia and France
[02:42.400 --> 02:47.840]  so it could be used as fuel in its research reactor in Tehran, which makes isotopes for
[02:47.840 --> 02:50.760]  medical uses.
[02:50.760 --> 03:10.800]  You are listening to the Rule of Law Radio Network at RuleOfLawRadio.com, live free
[03:10.800 --> 03:30.280]  speech talk radio at its best.
[03:30.280 --> 03:59.640]  This is a production of the U.S. Department of State.
[03:59.640 --> 04:26.700]  Bad boys, bad boys, bad boys, bad boys, bad boys, what are you going to do when they come
[04:26.700 --> 04:27.700]  for you?
[04:27.700 --> 04:33.400]  This is the Rule of Law, Randy Kelton and Deborah Stevens.
[04:33.400 --> 04:38.560]  Tonight we have a very special guest, an associate of Jeff Sedgwick who we had on as a guest
[04:38.560 --> 04:39.560]  last Friday night.
[04:39.560 --> 04:46.520]  Tonight we have on Mike Maris and he is going to be talking about the Fair Credit Reporting
[04:46.520 --> 04:55.240]  Act and the Debt Collections Practices Act and how to fight attorneys who are bill collectors,
[04:55.240 --> 04:59.640]  credit card companies, harassing with phone calls and letters and lawsuits and all these
[04:59.640 --> 05:00.640]  sorts of things.
[05:00.640 --> 05:03.240]  So Mike, welcome to the show.
[05:03.240 --> 05:08.440]  Well thank you very much Deborah, I appreciate you having me here and I hope we will find
[05:08.440 --> 05:09.440]  this informative.
[05:09.440 --> 05:14.240]  Yes, so we are going to talk about the bad boys, the bad credit card boys.
[05:14.240 --> 05:15.240]  So...
[05:15.240 --> 05:22.240]  Yeah and that song I usually substitute what you are going to do when I come for you.
[05:22.240 --> 05:23.240]  Exactly, exactly.
[05:23.240 --> 05:29.240]  Deborah gently says what are you going to do when Randy and Deborah come for you.
[05:29.240 --> 05:31.240]  That's right and Eddie Craig too.
[05:31.240 --> 05:32.240]  Eddie who?
[05:32.240 --> 05:35.240]  Oh yes, Eddie Craig.
[05:35.240 --> 05:44.240]  So please start off, you are going to be with us on the show and callers, listeners, we
[05:44.240 --> 05:50.360]  are going to keep the phones off for the first two hours while Michael presents his material
[05:50.360 --> 05:54.040]  and then we will take calls and questions the last two hours.
[05:54.040 --> 05:58.320]  And please stay on topic, I know we told a couple of callers to call back tonight when
[05:58.320 --> 06:02.760]  there was more time, Randy had not informed me that we had a guest tonight.
[06:02.760 --> 06:07.360]  So if you have questions about your personal cases or traffic tickets or these sorts of
[06:07.360 --> 06:14.200]  things, please call back on Monday because tonight we are going to be on topic regarding
[06:14.200 --> 06:15.400]  credit card issues.
[06:15.400 --> 06:17.360]  Yes, that was my fault.
[06:17.360 --> 06:25.640]  I talked to Mike a while back and you guys are going to like this, he is very intensive
[06:25.640 --> 06:32.440]  and very good information and for those who have special issues, send me an email, I will
[06:32.440 --> 06:38.920]  try to address them off the air if I can, if not we will open up Monday so we can take
[06:38.920 --> 06:40.920]  direct questions.
[06:40.920 --> 06:44.920]  Okay Mike, go ahead.
[06:44.920 --> 06:45.920]  Okay, very good.
[06:45.920 --> 06:53.080]  Thank you very much Randy and Deborah again, thanks for having me, it has been a long time
[06:53.080 --> 07:00.160]  doing this and it is very difficult at times to start where to begin and I give a little
[07:00.160 --> 07:06.960]  background history on myself, I am not a lawyer, I am not giving legal advice to anybody.
[07:06.960 --> 07:10.440]  So take that for what it is worth, what I am going to talk about is my experience in
[07:10.440 --> 07:16.480]  the federal court system going after these guys, the results of some of the cases and
[07:16.480 --> 07:24.880]  how you can become proactive in these situations to stop these and I will use a nice word leeches
[07:24.880 --> 07:30.760]  from messing up your life.
[07:30.760 --> 07:39.640]  By trade I am an electronics engineer, BSEE, I have worked for some major Fortune 500 companies
[07:39.640 --> 07:46.360]  and I understand how corporate America works and several years ago I went through a divorce
[07:46.360 --> 07:50.200]  and you know when you have problems with a divorce, things happen to your credit and
[07:50.200 --> 07:53.800]  I just could not get things fixed and I said there has got to be a better way to do this
[07:53.800 --> 07:58.880]  to get their attention, I am sure you have all been involved at one time or another where
[07:58.880 --> 08:05.280]  you have contacted the credit bureaus and tried to get them to remove something or fix something
[08:05.280 --> 08:12.400]  and it is like talk to the wall, they come back with the standard responses, we have
[08:12.400 --> 08:18.800]  looked at this, we have checked it and we are reporting it correctly or we have investigated
[08:18.800 --> 08:24.480]  this in the past and we find your dispute frivolous, these are standard answers that
[08:24.480 --> 08:26.520]  they provide.
[08:26.520 --> 08:29.640]  I got a little tired of that and I said you know there has got to be a better way to do
[08:29.640 --> 08:38.040]  this and I joined up with another group that got into this and I started to learn the legal
[08:38.040 --> 08:48.920]  procedures, I have a copy of Dr. Graves jurisdictionary which teaches you basic law in the courts,
[08:48.920 --> 08:53.760]  how to proceed and how to do filings and that kind of stuff but that is in the local courts.
[08:53.760 --> 09:00.160]  I have found that most people that have credit card problems, debt collectors after them,
[09:00.160 --> 09:06.680]  loan issues, credit bureau issues, it just does not work in the local courts, they do
[09:06.680 --> 09:13.760]  not get it, there is too much conspiring going on in the local courts from my personal opinion.
[09:13.760 --> 09:19.360]  I have been there and I have won but it is much more difficult and it is much less organized
[09:19.360 --> 09:27.600]  than the federal courts, primarily these laws under credit cards and loans and credit bureaus
[09:27.600 --> 09:36.440]  and so on and so forth are governed by two laws, one is the Fair Credit Reporting Act
[09:36.440 --> 09:42.360]  and the other is the Debt Collection Practices Act, these are available at the Federal Trade
[09:42.360 --> 09:48.800]  Commission site, you can get nice PDF copies of them, if you will print those documents
[09:48.800 --> 09:53.680]  out for yourself, it is not many pages and read them and learn them, that is the first
[09:53.680 --> 09:55.240]  step.
[09:55.240 --> 10:01.960]  The interesting thing is and people who do this cannot get this out of their head, I
[10:01.960 --> 10:07.000]  am a firm believer in bad things happen to good people, when you go through divorce or
[10:07.000 --> 10:12.840]  you lose a job or you get sick and you cannot pay your bills, bad things happen and you
[10:12.840 --> 10:17.920]  need to have a course of action to try to clean your life up so you can go on with a
[10:17.920 --> 10:23.680]  more subtle life than having these guys calling you all the time and harassing you and trying
[10:23.680 --> 10:29.000]  to drag you into the local courts.
[10:29.000 --> 10:32.600]  Learn the Fair Credit and the Debt Collection Practices Act, if you go in there and read
[10:32.600 --> 10:41.000]  them, they do not talk about debts or alleged debts as I refer to them, there is nothing
[10:41.000 --> 10:48.240]  in the Fair Credit Reporting Act or the Debt Collection Practices Act that says if you
[10:48.240 --> 10:55.160]  owe $1000 you cannot dispute an account or you cannot dispute with a credit bureau or
[10:55.160 --> 11:01.280]  a collector or anybody else, there is nothing in those acts that says anything about money.
[11:01.280 --> 11:07.880]  So the first thing and this is the hardest thing I have had to influence people with
[11:07.880 --> 11:14.400]  is to get the debt out of your mind, the alleged debt out of your mind, we are not talking
[11:14.400 --> 11:20.560]  about money here, we are talking about the things they are supposed to do under those
[11:20.560 --> 11:27.600]  laws when questioned and 99% of the time they do not do it and why do not they do them?
[11:27.600 --> 11:32.640]  We are a big multi-billion dollar corporation, you are nothing but a little consumer, we
[11:32.640 --> 11:39.160]  do not have to listen to you, that is the attitude and my attitude is working with corporate
[11:39.160 --> 11:43.920]  America for the many years that I have, the right hand does not know what the left hand
[11:43.920 --> 11:49.840]  is doing and it is the same with these banks and credit card companies and anybody else
[11:49.840 --> 11:54.960]  you might have a loan with, they just do not care, bottom line.
[11:54.960 --> 11:59.280]  Now you are probably sitting there thinking how does this guy, what is his credibility
[11:59.280 --> 12:03.160]  and what has he done and how does he know this stuff?
[12:03.160 --> 12:11.920]  I got to a point in my life with this stuff, I had an opportunity to learn this and take
[12:11.920 --> 12:17.280]  them into federal courts and I do not want anybody to get scared to think that oh my
[12:17.280 --> 12:21.920]  God I have to go into federal court and there are judges and lawyers and security people
[12:21.920 --> 12:27.560]  all around, it does not happen, it does not happen.
[12:27.560 --> 12:35.520]  I have been in federal court 6 times, I have won 6 cases, never lost a case, I have had
[12:35.520 --> 12:41.040]  cases dismissed prior to going to federal court simply because I presented them with
[12:41.040 --> 12:50.720]  a notice of pending lawsuit that says hey if you do not fix these problems within 10 days
[12:50.720 --> 12:57.480]  I am taking them to federal court and the complaint is attached and for some reason
[12:57.480 --> 13:01.480]  a lot of these outfits seem to get religion at that point and now they want to talk to
[13:01.480 --> 13:06.160]  you and that is what this is all about is getting them to the table and say if you do
[13:06.160 --> 13:10.440]  not fix these problems I am going to take you to that federal court and we are going
[13:10.440 --> 13:16.880]  to get them fixed, federal court is very easy, there is nothing to it, the chances of you
[13:16.880 --> 13:22.640]  appearing before a judge are slim to none, most of it is handled by the clerk of the
[13:22.640 --> 13:29.520]  court, you go in and file your complaint, fill out the necessary forms, each district
[13:29.520 --> 13:36.080]  and the district is in the area you live generally has a federal court and in some districts
[13:36.080 --> 13:40.560]  they are a little bit better, they even have a pro se office, pro se means you are representing
[13:40.560 --> 13:45.560]  yourself, you can go into the pro se office and they will guide you on your paper filings
[13:45.560 --> 13:52.560]  which are very simple what you learn how to do them, these guys will get served either
[13:52.560 --> 13:56.160]  each district is different some they will do a certified mailing the clerk will send
[13:56.160 --> 14:04.160]  it out, some cases you will have to hire a process server to send the complaint but when
[14:04.160 --> 14:12.200]  that happens they have about 20 days to respond to the complaint, it is very simple, costs
[14:12.200 --> 14:17.480]  are $350 to file in federal court, now I have people out there saying I am in enough trouble
[14:17.480 --> 14:25.120]  already and where do I get the $350 to file, the nice part is that you are indigent and
[14:25.120 --> 14:28.680]  you can't afford the money, you fill out a form to the court, explain the court your
[14:28.680 --> 14:35.720]  situation and they file it for you free and the best part of that is when you do file
[14:35.720 --> 14:40.920]  that way and it is approved and it is approved very quickly by the court they will get back
[14:40.920 --> 14:46.480]  in a day or two if they are going to allow you to submit under an indigent type situation
[14:46.480 --> 14:55.480]  and this is the part I like, the US marshals serve the complaint for you, so how would
[14:55.480 --> 15:03.160]  you like the US marshals showing up at your door, a little scary but anyway being there
[15:03.160 --> 15:07.800]  six times I am in PACER, if you don't know what PACER is and I will spell that out, it
[15:07.800 --> 15:15.960]  is P-A-C-E-R, that is where these public records are kept, all the cases in federal court are
[15:15.960 --> 15:21.040]  generally public and you can go and sign up for PACER, it doesn't cost anything, you do
[15:21.040 --> 15:27.680]  need to have a credit card or debit card, they don't charge you anything up front, they
[15:27.680 --> 15:34.360]  don't charge you anything until you have printed out $10 worth of pages and the pages are eight
[15:34.360 --> 15:38.280]  cents apiece so you can get a lot of pages printed out before you have to worry about
[15:38.280 --> 15:44.920]  paying something and the interesting part is 90 days later it resets the bill so you
[15:44.920 --> 15:52.240]  go back to zero and you can do it again, this is where you can go in, you can see my name,
[15:52.240 --> 15:59.040]  you can do a query and go in there and query my name and you can see my cases, so I don't
[15:59.040 --> 16:04.560]  like to say things that I can't prove and I am the type of guy if I don't know I will
[16:04.560 --> 16:09.400]  tell you I don't know, but I maybe know somebody who does, but the point is you can go in and
[16:09.400 --> 16:16.000]  look at my cases to verify that I have been in federal court and that I have won, the
[16:16.000 --> 16:20.840]  pleasure I have gotten out of this is teaching other people how to do it, I have a gentleman
[16:20.840 --> 16:25.320]  up in Rhode Island I have worked with for a couple of years and he is a chiropractor
[16:25.320 --> 16:37.640]  by trade and he got into this and has become very proficient, he got a notice that he owes
[16:37.640 --> 16:39.680]  some money to Bank of America.
[16:39.680 --> 16:46.360]  Okay, great, we are going to pick this up on the other side, this is the rule of law
[16:46.360 --> 16:51.760]  Randy Kelton and Debra Stevens, we are with our special guest Mike Merus, I am sorry and
[16:51.760 --> 16:56.560]  also Eddie Craig of course is with us tonight, we will hear about this chiropractor on the
[16:56.560 --> 16:57.560]  other side.
[16:57.560 --> 17:04.560]  Hello Austin, my name is Harlan Dieter, owner of Brave New Books, a local independent bookstore
[17:04.560 --> 17:09.280]  here in town, many of you are familiar with the bookstore and have attended some of our
[17:09.280 --> 17:13.920]  events, we have been proud to host speakers like Alex Jones, Ron Paul, Jim Mars, Katherine
[17:13.920 --> 17:18.320]  Albert, Webster Carpley, G. Edward Griffin and many other heroic figures in the patriot
[17:18.320 --> 17:23.280]  movement, but now Brave New Books needs your help, in order to continue to provide a space
[17:23.280 --> 17:27.640]  for these events and be an outlet for hard to find materials, we are going to need you
[17:27.640 --> 17:31.840]  Austin to help spread the word about the bookstore, please tell your friends and family about
[17:31.840 --> 17:36.920]  the wide variety of materials we offer, we also have DVD duplication capabilities for
[17:36.920 --> 17:41.920]  all you activists, also if you haven't visited us yet, please come down and show your support,
[17:41.920 --> 17:46.120]  it is so easy to support the big corporate chain stores that do nothing to further our
[17:46.120 --> 17:50.840]  message, remember you vote with your dollars, we are counting on you Austin, if you need
[17:50.840 --> 17:57.840]  any information please call 512-480-2503 or visit us at 1904 Guadalupe Street, thank
[17:57.840 --> 18:25.080]  you everyone.
[18:25.080 --> 18:31.280]  Great one music for you there, we are going to be releasing a CD next month, two CDs next
[18:31.280 --> 18:36.560]  month, we are going to release a new Ru1 album and a new Three Shoes Posse album, and Mike
[18:36.560 --> 18:41.680]  I guess I just need to introduce you to my band, the name of my band, one of my bands
[18:41.680 --> 18:48.080]  that I am participating in is called Three Shoes Posse, that is a Caribbean colloquialism,
[18:48.080 --> 18:53.520]  we do reggae music and are singers from Nevis, the sovereign nation island of Nevis that
[18:53.520 --> 19:00.280]  it is, and down in the Caribbean they have an expression called give them three shoes
[19:00.280 --> 19:06.080]  and what that is, it means for the bad guys you give them three shoes, two on their feet
[19:06.080 --> 19:11.200]  and one in their derriere, so it sounds to me like that is what you are doing, you are
[19:11.200 --> 19:15.880]  giving these credit card companies three shoes, I love it, so please continue your story about
[19:15.880 --> 19:16.880]  the chiropractor.
[19:16.880 --> 19:26.440]  Yes I will, thank you, yeah he had fallen on some hard times and got involved with one
[19:26.440 --> 19:35.800]  of the major banks and this was his second case in federal court and he did everything
[19:35.800 --> 19:43.080]  right, filed the documents, had them serve, etc. etc. and they didn't respond in time
[19:43.080 --> 19:48.600]  and when you don't respond in time in 20 days you can demand default judgement, well guess
[19:48.600 --> 19:53.120]  what he got, he got default judgement for $80,000 against one of the major banks in
[19:53.120 --> 19:57.880]  the country, I am not going to mention their name but they are pretty big, they have been
[19:57.880 --> 20:04.240]  fighting ever since, they claimed they weren't served properly, they had to go into a conference
[20:04.240 --> 20:14.520]  between the magistrate judge, which is a lower court judge, my friend and the attorney and
[20:14.520 --> 20:21.040]  the judge gave them an option because yes we understand that sometimes the service is
[20:21.040 --> 20:31.640]  incorrect but I am going to give you a choice, either accept the service today or I am going
[20:31.640 --> 20:38.640]  to enforce the default judgement, that's what they told the lawyers from the bank, that's
[20:38.640 --> 20:43.920]  your choice, well subsequently they accepted the default judgement, what does that mean,
[20:43.920 --> 20:47.840]  they are moving to trial, long story short they are in interrogatories, they are in discovery
[20:47.840 --> 20:52.440]  now what they call 26F, it's very easy to get there but now they are paying attention
[20:52.440 --> 20:57.160]  to you because you have learned this stuff and you have learned the laws they broke and
[20:57.160 --> 21:00.600]  I am going to go into more details on this but one of the questions I always like to
[21:00.600 --> 21:07.200]  put to everybody is let's say you go into the federal court, you go through rule 26F
[21:07.200 --> 21:14.280]  and very seldom do you ever go out of rule 26F and 26F is basically discovery, you get
[21:14.280 --> 21:23.400]  to ask interrogatories, admissions and denials, who you are going to depose, production of
[21:23.400 --> 21:27.600]  documents, expert witnesses you are going to call, that kind of stuff, it's all paper,
[21:27.600 --> 21:34.320]  most of this stuff, I would say 90% of it you could be sitting home in your underwear
[21:34.320 --> 21:39.280]  in front of your computer drinking a cup of coffee, doing emails with the attorney or
[21:39.280 --> 21:47.240]  on the phone with them, very seldom goes beyond that, the point is and you have to think about
[21:47.240 --> 21:53.280]  this and why I push this whole thing, number one is the costs that it's costing them to
[21:53.280 --> 22:00.840]  defend in these cases and number two is if it goes to trial which you are always going
[22:00.840 --> 22:07.800]  to demand a trial by jury and the question I always ask everybody is do you think there
[22:07.800 --> 22:15.360]  might be somebody on that jury that's got a credit report and then generally I get very
[22:15.360 --> 22:19.880]  quiet, this is a one sided conversation tonight, I get very quiet and I wait for somebody to
[22:19.880 --> 22:25.840]  respond and I'm sure some of you are out there saying well yeah, everybody does, okay, you're
[22:25.840 --> 22:35.120]  right, so here is a debt collector, debt collector attorney, a bank, whatever, who is in front
[22:35.120 --> 22:40.400]  of this jury, you get the picture why they don't want to go there, you think anybody
[22:40.400 --> 22:45.920]  on that jury may have had an issue with a credit reporting company, a credit card, try
[22:45.920 --> 22:51.720]  to straighten it out, pretty good chance there is and if they are, if they didn't, there's
[22:51.720 --> 22:56.880]  pretty good chance they've had a son, daughter, father, aunt, uncle, brother, sister who has
[22:56.880 --> 23:01.640]  and has heard the horror stories, so now the next question is what do you think is going
[23:01.640 --> 23:08.440]  to go on beyond the doors of the jury when it's sequestered in to make a jury decision
[23:08.440 --> 23:14.680]  on this case, my opinion is the debt collector, the credit card company is not going to get
[23:14.680 --> 23:20.880]  a lot of sympathy, I would love to be the fly on the wall to hear what would go on in
[23:20.880 --> 23:27.560]  a case like that but bottom line is they never seem to want to go there and I say that with
[23:27.560 --> 23:32.880]  a question mark at the end, they never seem to want to go in front of that jury and when
[23:32.880 --> 23:37.560]  you understand what's going on with the law and what I just disclosed to you about the
[23:37.560 --> 23:43.120]  jury, would you want to go there if you were a debt collector or a credit card company
[23:43.120 --> 23:49.560]  especially in the economy the way it is today and all the bailouts we've done, I don't think
[23:49.560 --> 23:53.640]  you want to go there, they're not going to get much sympathy and maybe the jury will
[23:53.640 --> 23:59.360]  rule instead of getting the standard damages that we're asked for, we ought to double
[23:59.360 --> 24:06.720]  them or triple them, so anyhow that's a little briefing on the front end of this, the bottom
[24:06.720 --> 24:14.600]  end is how do you get there, I'm sure you've heard about maybe even had them, the debt
[24:14.600 --> 24:20.040]  collectors calling you up constantly three and four and five and ten times a day, they
[24:20.040 --> 24:28.000]  want your money, they want you to pay, well you're in a position where maybe you can't
[24:28.000 --> 24:32.240]  pay, they don't care, they're going to keep calling you and calling you until they get
[24:32.240 --> 24:35.800]  some type of confirmation from you that you're going to pay and if that doesn't work they're
[24:35.800 --> 24:42.520]  going to take you into court, my instructions are to people who get involved in a situation
[24:42.520 --> 24:48.480]  like this is don't wait until they're serving you with a complaint to appear in the local
[24:48.480 --> 24:54.320]  court, that's the worst situation you can be in, can you fight it, yes, do we have the
[24:54.320 --> 25:01.720]  expertise to teach some of that of course, but it's a 50-50 chance in that lower court,
[25:01.720 --> 25:07.640]  I've been in the court rooms where the judge has asked the defendant in these cases, did
[25:07.640 --> 25:14.280]  you or did you not have this credit card, well I've got to scratch my head because
[25:14.280 --> 25:17.720]  knowing a little bit about the law that I know now that I've learned over the past six
[25:17.720 --> 25:24.360]  seven years, I always thought the judge was supposed to be impartial and when they ask
[25:24.360 --> 25:29.680]  questions like that they're hardly impartial, you've got to realize that they're dealing
[25:29.680 --> 25:33.760]  with attorneys they see several times a week, they don't play golf with, they have lunch
[25:33.760 --> 25:37.760]  with etc. etc. and they're buddies, okay, and they're going to find for their buddies
[25:37.760 --> 25:43.280]  and I don't even want to get into that half of the situation where I've heard about these
[25:43.280 --> 25:48.560]  funds going to judge's retirements and so on and so forth, it's inappropriate at this
[25:48.560 --> 25:55.040]  time, that's another telephone call, but the point is you want to stop them before you
[25:55.040 --> 26:03.520]  get in there and how do you do it, that's the big question, well, the laws on the books,
[26:03.520 --> 26:10.840]  the Debt Collection Practices Act says that when they call you they must identify themselves
[26:10.840 --> 26:16.800]  why they're calling and one of the first things out of their mouth better be this is an attempt
[26:16.800 --> 26:21.640]  to collect the debt, any information provided will be used for that purpose, I have that
[26:21.640 --> 26:29.800]  memorized folks, I'm not reading from a script here at all on any of this stuff, you need
[26:29.800 --> 26:36.400]  to take control of that conversation and that's the problem with people, they don't know what
[26:36.400 --> 26:41.900]  to do with this stuff, you need to take control of it and we have a list of 18 questions we
[26:41.900 --> 26:49.160]  ask you to ask this person who's calling you claiming you owe money and it's simple questions,
[26:49.160 --> 26:54.240]  it's like what's your name, what's the name of the company you're calling for, what's
[26:54.240 --> 26:58.300]  their address, what's their phone number, what's the name of the company you're trying
[26:58.300 --> 27:03.760]  to collect for, what's their address, what's their phone number, right on down the line,
[27:03.760 --> 27:12.200]  but the 18th question is kind of the interesting question, the 18th question is and what is
[27:12.200 --> 27:19.440]  your social security number, I can almost guarantee you 100% the phone gets very, very
[27:19.440 --> 27:26.280]  quiet, I've had some people tell me that debt collector hangs up on them when you ask that
[27:26.280 --> 27:30.520]  question and then for the most part they'll come back and say well I don't have to give
[27:30.520 --> 27:35.880]  you that, well yeah you do because you know I'm entitled to full disclosure and I need
[27:35.880 --> 27:40.960]  to know who I'm talking to, well I'm not going to give you that and your response is quite
[27:40.960 --> 27:49.640]  simple, well then I don't speak to non-entities and hang up.
[27:49.640 --> 28:01.520]  So at that point what do you think happens, they're a little peoed and they sometimes
[28:01.520 --> 28:05.880]  call you right back and when they call back they again forget to give you that this is
[28:05.880 --> 28:10.880]  an attempt to collect the debt and what is the purpose or the point of that, well the
[28:10.880 --> 28:16.360]  law is very clear, if they don't tell you that every time they contact you or send you
[28:16.360 --> 28:21.200]  a letter and have that in writing on the letter somewhere, this is an attempt to collect the
[28:21.200 --> 28:29.640]  debt, it's a violation of the Debt Collection Practices Act, it's $1000.
[28:29.640 --> 28:36.040]  So if they did that over the course of a couple of days and they called you two or three times
[28:36.040 --> 28:41.320]  and didn't give you that this is an attempt to collect the debt, you're recording these
[28:41.320 --> 28:47.160]  conversations now, I'm not concerned with the recording laws of every state, some states
[28:47.160 --> 28:56.080]  say you can't record unless both parties are informed of that, it's okay in some states
[28:56.080 --> 29:01.520]  as long as one party knows that they're being recorded, it varies from state to state but
[29:01.520 --> 29:07.680]  you know what, when I'm in my home nobody's telling me what I'm going to do, the purpose
[29:07.680 --> 29:15.920]  of the recording if you have a recorder is not to produce that recording as evidence,
[29:15.920 --> 29:22.920]  the purpose of the recording is that you can do a ledger, the time, the date, the name
[29:22.920 --> 29:28.480]  of the person, etc. what they said, you can write that all down because you see in a court
[29:28.480 --> 29:34.040]  of law a ledger is admissible but you go in that court of law and you tell the judge
[29:34.040 --> 29:39.200]  or whoever I've got this recording they're going to block.
[29:39.200 --> 29:43.680]  Right okay listen we're going to break, we'll be back on the other side, we'll talk more
[29:43.680 --> 29:49.200]  about this ledger, I like that idea, it's like a log showing everything that's happened.
[29:49.200 --> 29:50.200]  Exactly.
[29:50.200 --> 29:51.200]  Very good idea.
[29:51.200 --> 29:54.440]  Okay we'll be right back, this is the rule of law, Randy Kelton, Deborah Stevens, Eddie
[29:54.440 --> 29:58.720]  Craig and our guest Mike Miras.
[29:58.720 --> 30:04.360]  Are you a plaintiff or defendant in a lawsuit?
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[30:09.480 --> 30:17.200]  4 CD course that will show you how in 24 hours, step by step, if you have a lawyer know what
[30:17.200 --> 30:21.680]  your lawyer should be doing, if you don't have a lawyer know what you should do for
[30:21.680 --> 30:27.920]  yourself, thousands have won with our step by step course and now you can too.
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[30:34.640 --> 30:39.160]  Even if you're not in a lawsuit you can learn what everyone should understand about the
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[31:00.080 --> 31:24.040]  Yeah, I got a warrant and I'm going to solve them to the government them prosecute them.
[31:24.040 --> 31:36.840]  Okay, we are back.
[31:36.840 --> 31:41.680]  Okay, so Mike you were telling us about the ledger.
[31:41.680 --> 31:47.760]  Yes, it's imperative that you, all this stuff will require a good paper trail, that's all
[31:47.760 --> 31:48.760]  it takes.
[31:48.760 --> 31:51.960]  Your paper is going to be better than theirs in the long run.
[31:51.960 --> 31:56.440]  The purpose of the ledger is you're going to transmit from that recording everything
[31:56.440 --> 32:00.000]  that happened and you're going to keep that ledger as proof of the date and time you're
[32:00.000 --> 32:06.880]  contacted and so on and so forth and you're picking up violations, they fail to inform
[32:06.880 --> 32:11.920]  you of your rights, this is an attempt to collect the debt and every time they do it
[32:11.920 --> 32:14.800]  it's a thousand dollar violation.
[32:14.800 --> 32:18.600]  So by keeping track of this and keeping it for your records if and when you do have to
[32:18.600 --> 32:22.720]  go into that courtroom you have to prove positive.
[32:22.720 --> 32:27.600]  The law is very clear, just go read the law and their debt collection practice is that
[32:27.600 --> 32:37.840]  it tells you, when they contact you they need to tell you that and I often equate a lot
[32:37.840 --> 32:44.960]  of this stuff, the people who are just starting out to a similar situation, you're going down
[32:44.960 --> 32:49.080]  the street and you're doing 60 miles an hour in a 25 mile an hour zone and the cop pulls
[32:49.080 --> 32:53.720]  you over and gives you a ticket, okay well you deserved the ticket, you were speeding
[32:53.720 --> 32:57.240]  and then he takes his nightstick out and starts beating the heck out of you, can't do that
[32:57.240 --> 33:02.840]  stuff, can't do that stuff, you can't break the law and that's what these guys do on a
[33:02.840 --> 33:05.040]  regular basis.
[33:05.040 --> 33:12.520]  Now when you're first time getting contacted by these guys, again being very proactive
[33:12.520 --> 33:16.760]  not waiting for them to drag you into court to get the local lawyer to come after you
[33:16.760 --> 33:22.760]  and so on and so forth, you want to send out what we call a validation letter, a letter
[33:22.760 --> 33:30.400]  of validation basically asking them to provide proof that you owe something and you only
[33:30.400 --> 33:38.320]  do that one time, one time to the collection agency, the lawyer who's ever involved, you
[33:38.320 --> 33:44.560]  ask them for proof under penalty of perjury, we have a standard letter that says you have
[33:44.560 --> 33:48.040]  first hand knowledge of this alleged count and so on and so forth.
[33:48.040 --> 33:51.840]  We don't get into this legalese, I've seen a lot of people out there that start writing
[33:51.840 --> 33:57.800]  up all these papers and quoting the law and all this stuff, you don't want to do that,
[33:57.800 --> 34:01.240]  you want to be dumb, you're going to be dumb as a friend of mine says, you're going to
[34:01.240 --> 34:06.760]  be dumb like a fox, don't tell people what you know when you're going after them with
[34:06.760 --> 34:10.960]  this stuff, you want to just let them bury themselves and they do a very good job of
[34:10.960 --> 34:15.640]  it without you quoting the law and so on and so forth.
[34:15.640 --> 34:19.160]  And then we also have another little thing in this letter that's called a limited cease
[34:19.160 --> 34:24.400]  and desist, it doesn't say that but under the Debt Collection Practices Act you can
[34:24.400 --> 34:28.880]  tell these guys to stop calling you, so we put a little blurb in there that says oh by
[34:28.880 --> 34:38.880]  the way, don't call me at home or at work, only by U.S. Mail, contact me at home by U.S.
[34:38.880 --> 34:41.400]  Mail, that's it.
[34:41.400 --> 34:45.880]  And then a very nice closing, we hope we can settle this amicably and it's a one pager,
[34:45.880 --> 34:52.240]  that's it, certified mail, learn this now, everything you do with this stuff, certified
[34:52.240 --> 34:58.600]  mail return receipt, you want a paper trail.
[34:58.600 --> 35:05.960]  Now once that validation letter goes out, I've seen in some cases where these debt collectors,
[35:05.960 --> 35:13.280]  these companies will send you back letters saying we've returned this to the original
[35:13.280 --> 35:17.600]  creditor, we're not going to be bothering you anymore in other words, and then sometimes
[35:17.600 --> 35:24.680]  they come back with alleged proof of some alleged debt.
[35:24.680 --> 35:30.320]  Well the problem with alleged proof is, is that you don't have anyone with first hand
[35:30.320 --> 35:35.040]  knowledge and nobody knows where they got these papers from, I've heard people tell
[35:35.040 --> 35:42.920]  me well they send you back statements, so what, what does that mean?
[35:42.920 --> 35:49.960]  The statements mean nothing, it says yeah you had an account, okay, but what about all
[35:49.960 --> 35:53.600]  the payments that were made out, where is that at, where are the late fees, there was
[35:53.600 --> 35:59.840]  case law on this, and it's a very good case, well this is just one of them, there's many
[35:59.840 --> 36:06.360]  of them, Spears versus Brenner, out of Indiana, debt collector took the guy into court and
[36:06.360 --> 36:10.280]  he brought in the contract, says you see your honor he had a contract, oh yeah, you must
[36:10.280 --> 36:17.320]  owe the money, the guy appealed it up to the Supreme Court, the appeals court, appeals
[36:17.320 --> 36:23.080]  court says no, can't do that, that doesn't mean anything, the contract doesn't mean anything,
[36:23.080 --> 36:29.960]  where is the monies that were paid in, where is the late charges, et cetera, et cetera,
[36:29.960 --> 36:33.960]  you can go read that, Spears versus Brenner out of Indiana, you can go read that case,
[36:33.960 --> 36:40.680]  it's very interesting, the law come, the court came back and said here's what verifies an
[36:40.680 --> 36:47.200]  alleged debt, it's called a ledger accounting from day one to the current, where did all
[36:47.200 --> 36:51.640]  the funds go, how were the payments made, how were they credited, and the collector
[36:51.640 --> 36:57.600]  and or creditor needs to show this, so the case got remanded back to the lower court,
[36:57.600 --> 37:05.160]  they lost, I'm not making this stuff up folks, it's in the law, okay, that's what I go by,
[37:05.160 --> 37:09.720]  I go by the black and white, it's pretty hard to beat, that's why I tell you keep a good
[37:09.720 --> 37:16.640]  paper trail, all this stuff is a paper trail, long story short, when they send you those
[37:16.640 --> 37:21.720]  documents, and I don't profess anybody to do anything that would bother them, but I
[37:21.720 --> 37:27.880]  realize who I'm dealing with, especially when I'm dealing with the debt collector, I haven't
[37:27.880 --> 37:33.080]  been involved with any of those guys in years, since I know this stuff, I have AAA credit
[37:33.080 --> 37:39.920]  and I just know what to do if somebody gets out of line, when you do this stuff and you
[37:39.920 --> 37:45.360]  learn it, it's so powerful, you'll have it for the rest of your life, you'll learn how
[37:45.360 --> 37:51.560]  to do this once or twice in the federal court, and it's just like a protection net over you,
[37:51.560 --> 37:57.880]  you'll know what to do, you know how to stop these guys, the one case that comes into mind,
[37:57.880 --> 38:07.080]  I remember my very first case, well I'm going to get a little detail with it, was with Mexican
[38:07.080 --> 38:13.120]  taxes, everybody gets a chuckle out of that when I say that, yeah, they came after me
[38:13.120 --> 38:19.520]  for Mexican taxes, about $3200 worth, and you know, how do you get into a situation
[38:19.520 --> 38:20.520]  like that?
[38:20.520 --> 38:25.080]  Well, I was working, I mentioned earlier, I'm an engineer and I was working for an American
[38:25.080 --> 38:31.400]  company in Mexico, across the border, and I was living in Arizona at the time, and I'd
[38:31.400 --> 38:36.560]  cross the border every day, go down to work in Mexico and come back home, and well I was
[38:36.560 --> 38:42.080]  there when 9-11 hit, and you can imagine what the border was like that day, I've seen so
[38:42.080 --> 38:47.600]  many armed troops since I was in the service, okay, took about four hours to cross the border,
[38:47.600 --> 38:52.160]  that just wore me out, I finally decided, okay, I can't do this after about six months
[38:52.160 --> 38:56.600]  of that every day, three hours delayed at the border, which normally was a five or ten
[38:56.600 --> 39:05.320]  minute thing to get back in, I left the company, and about six months after I left the company,
[39:05.320 --> 39:12.600]  they sent me a letter saying, you owe us taxes that we paid the Mexican government.
[39:12.600 --> 39:17.540]  That's interesting, because I had an agreement with them that said when I left the company,
[39:17.540 --> 39:22.840]  they would deduct any money owed from my final paycheck, and there was certainly enough in
[39:22.840 --> 39:29.520]  there to cover the $3200 and so on and so forth, and I didn't work for them anymore,
[39:29.520 --> 39:38.320]  so I got kind of a mindset that, you know, and maybe my thought process is screwed up,
[39:38.320 --> 39:46.160]  but here was my attitude, you mess up, you cause the problem, because you didn't deduct
[39:46.160 --> 39:50.960]  the tax money, and I get the pay, is that how the system works?
[39:50.960 --> 39:57.080]  I don't think so, one story short, they turned over a commercial collection agency, very
[39:57.080 --> 40:05.120]  short time I had six violations of the Debt Collection Practices Act on them, that's $6000,
[40:05.120 --> 40:09.960]  they then turned it over to an attorney, collections attorney, the guy contacted me, I asked him
[40:09.960 --> 40:18.880]  for validation, you know what he sent me for validation, you're going to chuckle, he sent
[40:18.880 --> 40:28.000]  me copies of copies of copies of copies of faxes in Spanish, that says this is why you
[40:28.000 --> 40:37.120]  owe the money, hmm, okay, well unfortunately by the time he sent the second letter to me,
[40:37.120 --> 40:42.120]  he failed to put, this is an attempt to collect the debt on the letter, that's one violation,
[40:42.120 --> 40:48.480]  over a short period of time I had four violations against them, $4000, they were not in my
[40:48.480 --> 40:56.200]  credit report, I'll give it some more details about that, how you rack up points there,
[40:56.200 --> 41:06.280]  he was not in my credit report, they sent me this letter, you know, pay now or else,
[41:06.280 --> 41:10.840]  I didn't hear from him for quite a few months, so it's like the old sword of Damocles hanging
[41:10.840 --> 41:17.320]  over your head, what's going to happen next, and I sent a follow up letter and said hey,
[41:17.320 --> 41:24.520]  if you don't resolve this, I'm going to take you to the federal court, I had $4000 in violations,
[41:24.520 --> 41:35.000]  they're trying to collect $3200, the guy wrote me back a letter, and in the letter, this
[41:35.000 --> 41:40.840]  was the time frame from November to April, this was probably April of the following year,
[41:40.840 --> 41:46.480]  he wrote me back a letter and he said oh wait, I tried calling you on December 5th, December
[41:46.480 --> 41:54.640]  8th, December 12th and December 14th and nobody answered the phone, and he signed it, you
[41:54.640 --> 42:03.200]  know, demanding payment, so on and so forth, he just racked up another four violations,
[42:03.200 --> 42:07.520]  so now I've got him on $8000, how did he rack up the violations, you remember when I told
[42:07.520 --> 42:15.280]  you about that validation letter that says don't call me, only contact me by U.S. mail,
[42:15.280 --> 42:23.480]  he just admitted he called me four times and signed his name to it, anyhow, I filed in
[42:23.480 --> 42:32.600]  federal court, the judge ordered a good to safe conference between me, the plaintiff,
[42:32.600 --> 42:40.080]  and when you're the plaintiff in these cases, you do not realize how much power you have,
[42:40.080 --> 42:44.760]  we had a conference meeting between me, the plaintiff, and the defendant as ordered by
[42:44.760 --> 42:54.400]  Judge Proctor in the federal court system, now when you go to one of these conferences,
[42:54.400 --> 42:58.560]  you don't fall into their traps, well come to my office and we'll discuss this, no, we
[42:58.560 --> 43:04.880]  don't do that, I'm in control here, I tell you what to do, so we go down to the local
[43:04.880 --> 43:09.560]  library and you rent a room for $10 for half a day, I don't know if you know you could
[43:09.560 --> 43:15.480]  do that, they have little conference rooms and $10 or $20 for the day, and we'll meet
[43:15.480 --> 43:23.040]  there, so I went to the library, I had a very nice conference room, you know the big mahogany
[43:23.040 --> 43:29.280]  table, enough for ten people to sit around it, in walks the lawyer, he's about four
[43:29.280 --> 43:38.480]  foot two, I'm about six foot one, okay, I'm on the edge of my seat here, I can't wait
[43:38.480 --> 43:45.280]  to hear about this on the other side, in walks the lawyer, okay, we're cutting to break but
[43:45.280 --> 43:49.880]  we will be right back here on the rule of law, Randy Kelton, Eddie Craig, Deborah Stevens
[43:49.880 --> 43:54.680]  and our very special guest Mike Maris, telling us how to give free shoes to these rogue credit
[43:54.680 --> 43:59.240]  card companies, we'll be right back.
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[45:20.740 --> 45:27.200]  Okay, you're getting information here, you're not going to hear anywhere else here on the
[45:27.200 --> 45:31.880]  rule of law, rule of law radio, very special guest Mike Miras telling us how to take it
[45:31.880 --> 45:37.520]  to these credit card companies, okay so, you're in the room, the big giant mahogany table,
[45:37.520 --> 45:39.920]  in walks the lawyer, so what happens?
[45:39.920 --> 45:44.400]  Well he walks in and actually he wasn't five foot two, he was about four foot two, and
[45:44.400 --> 45:52.520]  I'm a pretty big guy, I'm about six foot and he walks in and introduces himself and we
[45:52.520 --> 45:56.800]  shook hands, you know, you're always very cordial, you don't want to show anger or get
[45:56.800 --> 46:04.040]  nasty with anybody, you want to hold the mirror about yourself, demeanor about yourself, and
[46:04.040 --> 46:09.760]  he walked in and shook hands, hi how you doing, okay and I introduced myself and then I introduced
[46:09.760 --> 46:16.720]  the lady that was sitting at the table, and he kind of looked at her and he says hi and
[46:16.720 --> 46:22.480]  I said this is Miss Rose, her last name was Rose, and I said she'll be taking the minutes
[46:22.480 --> 46:33.200]  of this meeting, he didn't see her stenographer's typewriter under the table, he says to me
[46:33.200 --> 46:40.720]  wait a minute, she can't be here, I says why, no she just can't be here, I says well let
[46:40.720 --> 46:47.160]  me ask you a question, where's your client, oh he doesn't have to be here, I says that's
[46:47.160 --> 46:51.080]  not what this paper says from the court, it says good faith meeting between the plaintiff
[46:51.080 --> 46:55.040]  and the defendant, I'm going to ask you one more time, where's your client, he doesn't
[46:55.040 --> 46:59.040]  have to be here, well the lawyer's wiping his hand across his head, he throws his books
[46:59.040 --> 47:07.560]  down, he says I'm calling the judge, okay, calls Judge Proctor, Judge Proctor does a
[47:07.560 --> 47:12.720]  three way, time to sell phones you know, he's talking to me, he's talking to the lawyer
[47:12.720 --> 47:23.680]  and the lawyer says your honor, he's got a stenographer here, and the judge says, oh
[47:23.680 --> 47:31.200]  this is his exact words, judge says oh I'll allow that, you just tell her, she's a deputy
[47:31.200 --> 47:37.640]  clerk of the court and she needs to keep the records, so much for being an attorney huh,
[47:37.640 --> 47:41.720]  now he's got to tell the truth, ain't that a son of a gun thing to have to do, because
[47:41.720 --> 47:47.000]  it's all going to be written down folks, I'm not going to let these guys push me around,
[47:47.000 --> 47:51.920]  they pushed me around enough, now you're going to do things the right way, one story short
[47:51.920 --> 47:56.360]  we talked for about an hour, nothing exciting happened, wait, wait, wait, hold on, let me
[47:56.360 --> 48:03.520]  just stop you here for a second, what about the client, well the judge said, good point
[48:03.520 --> 48:08.160]  I forgot that, the judge says to me, he says Mr. Harris, he says the client does not have
[48:08.160 --> 48:12.080]  to be there, you can talk to his attorney and that's perfectly acceptable, and I says
[48:12.080 --> 48:17.280]  alright your honor, if you're comfortable with that, I'm comfortable with it, no problem,
[48:17.280 --> 48:23.800]  that was it, no problem, so I continued the conversation with the lawyer, it lasted, I
[48:23.800 --> 48:29.000]  don't know, 45 minutes an hour, and we agreed to meet, he was going to go back and talk
[48:29.000 --> 48:33.640]  with his client about everything, you know the proof that I had that they violated the
[48:33.640 --> 48:37.720]  law, we briefly talked on that, you don't have to show anything in that because we weren't
[48:37.720 --> 48:47.440]  in essentially rule 26F, and he laughed, I laughed, and we agreed to meet about a month
[48:47.440 --> 48:55.960]  later with the stenographer in the same location, we came into the room, he came into the room,
[48:55.960 --> 48:59.400]  we're sitting there and we talked for 45 minutes, he's sitting at the end of the table, he looks
[48:59.400 --> 49:05.560]  across the table at me and he sits, Mr. Harris we're kind of tired of doing this, it's costing
[49:05.560 --> 49:09.800]  us a lot of money and time and we'd like to make you a settlement agreement or a settlement
[49:09.800 --> 49:21.120]  offer, I says okay, I'm listening, well the offer was we'll give you X amount of dollars
[49:21.120 --> 49:28.880]  to dismiss the case with prejudice and we'll have a settlement agreement in writing that
[49:28.880 --> 49:32.320]  says we ain't never going to bother you anymore about this stuff, we're not going to report
[49:32.320 --> 49:36.000]  it in the credit bureaus, we're not going to turn it over to another debt collector,
[49:36.000 --> 49:43.720]  in other words this thing is retired, I says okay you've got a deal, I made my first mistake
[49:43.720 --> 49:49.760]  but I learned, you know you learn from your mistakes, it was a minor one, lawyers have
[49:49.760 --> 49:56.920]  a problem with wording, yeah we've got an agreement but when do we settle it and that
[49:56.920 --> 50:01.400]  was my mistake, I never set a date and I should have said to them okay we've got a settlement
[50:01.400 --> 50:08.640]  agreement, I want this resolved by such and such a date and I'll tell you what happened
[50:08.640 --> 50:15.480]  as we go into the story a little bit more, at that point I accepted the settlement agreement,
[50:15.480 --> 50:22.120]  I turned off the stenographer and we sat there and we talked about the case a little bit
[50:22.120 --> 50:27.680]  and I says well I was going to be interested in your answer to the interrogatories on collecting
[50:27.680 --> 50:33.320]  Mexican taxes when my first question in the interrogatories would have been what is your
[50:33.320 --> 50:40.880]  authority to collect Mexican taxes, the next interrogatory would have been what is your
[50:40.880 --> 50:48.440]  authority to collect taxes for anybody and the third question would have been produce
[50:48.440 --> 50:54.800]  the documents that show you have authority to collect taxes and the lawyer kind of sat
[50:54.800 --> 50:59.520]  there and said yeah I understand he says but he said to be truthful with you, this is his
[50:59.520 --> 51:08.000]  exact words, he says you had four counts that we had no defense for, four counts that they
[51:08.000 --> 51:13.280]  had no defense for and I know what they were, they were the, when he called and he put in
[51:13.280 --> 51:18.280]  the letter that he called me and he signed it, it's like signing a confession, you know
[51:18.280 --> 51:24.200]  there it is, black and white, they had no defense for it, anyhow he finally left, the
[51:24.200 --> 51:29.800]  young lady that was doing the stenography bit and she was working for me, I paid her,
[51:29.800 --> 51:35.160]  you know this big stenographer company that she worked for, she looked at me and she says
[51:35.160 --> 51:39.360]  Mr. Meyers she says you know I've been doing this for ten years, she says and I've never
[51:39.360 --> 51:46.480]  seen anything like that and my first response that came into my head was you know what when
[51:46.480 --> 51:53.520]  you're right, you're right, they broke the law and I can prove it, it's that simple folks,
[51:53.520 --> 51:57.480]  they break the law and all you've got to do is prove it, the debt or alleged debt doesn't
[51:57.480 --> 52:05.840]  come into the picture, there's nothing to do with any debt, I'm sorry?
[52:05.840 --> 52:12.360]  That's the part I like the best is that you keep your issues focused, you don't let one
[52:12.360 --> 52:14.280]  issue bleed into another.
[52:14.280 --> 52:19.560]  And so Mike why did the debt not come into the picture just because you were nailing
[52:19.560 --> 52:25.720]  them on breaking the law and so they were so embroiled in dealing with that that they
[52:25.720 --> 52:27.720]  never even got to the debt, is that why?
[52:27.720 --> 52:33.080]  No because they can't bring it up in the court, it's that simple, when you file your complaint
[52:33.080 --> 52:37.920]  you're not talking about any alleged debt, I contacted these people on such and such
[52:37.920 --> 52:43.080]  a date to provide me with validation, they failed to do it, they continued to call me,
[52:43.080 --> 52:48.480]  I told them not to call me, they continued to do it, here's the law, the law says if
[52:48.480 --> 52:52.600]  you're told to do these things and you continue to do it, you break the law, it has nothing
[52:52.600 --> 52:56.160]  to do with any money, the money doesn't even attend a judge's court in the court.
[52:56.160 --> 52:58.640]  Just remember, he's the plaintiff here, he's the one that wins these.
[52:58.640 --> 53:01.360]  Oh yes, I understand that, I understand that.
[53:01.360 --> 53:07.760]  It's not about collecting a debt, that's a secondary issue, that's not before the court
[53:07.760 --> 53:08.760]  at this time.
[53:08.760 --> 53:09.760]  That's right.
[53:09.760 --> 53:15.720]  That was the part that I liked, keeping the issues separate, which is not you violating
[53:15.720 --> 53:21.560]  laws relating to your business practice, it's not about my debt.
[53:21.560 --> 53:27.960]  Right, it's the interesting part to this whole thing, I'm getting a little ahead of myself,
[53:27.960 --> 53:34.760]  but when you take these cases into the federal court, and again I may have mentioned it earlier,
[53:34.760 --> 53:41.640]  you're in there because of civil rights issues, not because of alleged debt, your civil rights
[53:41.640 --> 53:45.880]  have been violated under the Fair Credit and Debt Collection Practices Act, and federal
[53:45.880 --> 53:50.880]  court, what are you going to do to fix this?
[53:50.880 --> 53:59.920]  So basically you're just beating them up with civil rights issues under this Fair Credit
[53:59.920 --> 54:08.120]  Reporting Act and the Debt Collections Practices Act in order to get them to just blow off
[54:08.120 --> 54:13.280]  the debt, make it go away, even give you money and take all this stuff off your credit report
[54:13.280 --> 54:18.080]  and promise to never sell the quote unquote debt again.
[54:18.080 --> 54:19.080]  That's exactly right.
[54:19.080 --> 54:20.080]  Okay.
[54:20.080 --> 54:25.360]  You're going to cross them, well here, see, if you haven't got the picture, and as I get
[54:25.360 --> 54:31.360]  in more and more into detail, let's say somebody, they're trying to collect 5,000 from you or
[54:31.360 --> 54:37.800]  10,000 or 6,000 or 8,000, whatever the number is, okay, you're racking up violations under
[54:37.800 --> 54:39.720]  Fair Credit and Debt Collection.
[54:39.720 --> 54:44.680]  I haven't gotten into the Fair Credit, how this all plays into it, but over a period
[54:44.680 --> 54:50.280]  of a couple months you'll have 6, 8, 10, and the more you can wait, the more violations
[54:50.280 --> 54:53.320]  you'll get racked up, especially under Fair Credit.
[54:53.320 --> 54:55.640]  So let me give you a hypothetical situation.
[54:55.640 --> 54:57.920]  They're trying to collect 5,000.
[54:57.920 --> 55:03.640]  You have $8,000 in violations under Fair Credit and Debt Collection, okay?
[55:03.640 --> 55:09.560]  Now, the debt collector or the credit card company, the bank, whatever loans you money,
[55:09.560 --> 55:14.880]  whatever is in Oshkosh, and you're in Miami, well you take them into federal court in Miami,
[55:14.880 --> 55:17.000]  they've got to hire an attorney in Miami.
[55:17.000 --> 55:21.880]  So let me get this straight, see if this makes sense to you.
[55:21.880 --> 55:25.400]  Orders today, I'm sure in Miami, they probably get $400 or $500 an hour.
[55:25.400 --> 55:27.160]  I don't think that's an unreasonable number.
[55:27.160 --> 55:32.280]  I really don't know, but I don't think $400 or $500 an hour is unreasonable.
[55:32.280 --> 55:35.480]  So the bank contacts me and says, hey, we're being sued, can you represent it?
[55:35.480 --> 55:39.920]  And oh boy, the lawyers are rubbing his head, oh yeah, we can, yeah, sure.
[55:39.920 --> 55:43.520]  So I've got to answer by such and such a day, so I've got to drop everything.
[55:43.520 --> 55:49.760]  So I'm going to charge you 10 hours right off the top, so let's see, that's $4,000.
[55:49.760 --> 55:56.160]  And then if it goes to 26F, Rule 26F, which most of these cases do, because the federal
[55:56.160 --> 56:02.520]  courts are very closely watched to how they handle pro se litigants, another topic of
[56:02.520 --> 56:03.520]  conversation.
[56:03.520 --> 56:10.160]  The lawyer now will have to prepare the interrogatories, et cetera, et cetera, get that all done,
[56:10.160 --> 56:11.360]  so maybe another 10 hours.
[56:11.360 --> 56:20.560]  So let's say 20 hours at $400, that's $8,000, and they're trying to collect $5,000.
[56:20.560 --> 56:24.600]  The interesting thing is you haven't even hit them with your damages yet.
[56:24.600 --> 56:26.320]  Then what are your damages?
[56:26.320 --> 56:34.320]  Well, a lot of people get a little crazy with this stuff, and I suggest you don't, okay?
[56:34.320 --> 56:37.640]  Be practical, do things that you can prove.
[56:37.640 --> 56:44.120]  You'll hear people come in and say, wow, I got high blood pressure, I couldn't sleep
[56:44.120 --> 56:50.360]  at night, I couldn't sexually perform for my significant other, all this kind of good
[56:50.360 --> 56:51.360]  stuff.
[56:51.360 --> 56:59.760]  Don't go there unless you can get an affidavit from a doctor that would be willing to swear
[56:59.760 --> 57:01.960]  to that, okay?
[57:01.960 --> 57:07.520]  However, what you do go after, which is in black and white, and you can show it to the
[57:07.520 --> 57:17.680]  court, they damage my credit score, they damage my credit report, and they damage my reputation
[57:17.680 --> 57:20.040]  because they say I don't pay my bills.
[57:20.040 --> 57:25.280]  Now you tell me what that's worth for damages.
[57:25.280 --> 57:28.040]  I have a young lady who just has her first case.
[57:28.040 --> 57:33.520]  They're trying to collect $260 from her from a second largest collection agency in the
[57:33.520 --> 57:34.520]  United States.
[57:34.520 --> 57:38.560]  She's suing them for $1.14 million.
[57:38.560 --> 57:40.720]  She's a law student, okay?
[57:40.720 --> 57:44.560]  Don't expect to get $1.14 million, okay?
[57:44.560 --> 57:49.000]  But she's filed a complaint, and that's what she's suing them for.
[57:49.000 --> 57:51.760]  So guys, you tell me what you want to do, okay?
[57:51.760 --> 57:52.760]  I got the goods on you.
[57:52.760 --> 57:54.760]  I can prove you broke the law.
[57:54.760 --> 57:55.760]  I'm going to win.
[57:55.760 --> 58:00.680]  If you don't want to settle, what's going before that jury I was talking about a little
[58:00.680 --> 58:01.680]  while ago?
[58:01.680 --> 58:04.080]  12 people on there who don't have credit reports?
[58:04.080 --> 58:06.080]  Oh yeah, let's do it.
[58:06.080 --> 58:07.080]  Let's go.
[58:07.080 --> 58:08.080]  I'm ready.
[58:08.080 --> 58:09.080]  I love it.
[58:09.080 --> 58:15.560]  So pretty much in all of these cases, they're always doing something to break the law, is
[58:15.560 --> 58:16.560]  what you're saying.
[58:16.560 --> 58:17.560]  Absolutely.
[58:17.560 --> 58:21.200]  And you'll have the paper trail in place to prove it, and that's all you got to do.
[58:21.200 --> 58:22.200]  All right, wonderful.
[58:22.200 --> 58:24.000]  All right, listen, we're coming to the top of the hour here.
[58:24.000 --> 58:27.120]  We got a three-minute break for the top of the hour news.
[58:27.120 --> 58:33.560]  We're going to come back with more from Mike Maris on how to beat these guys up in federal
[58:33.560 --> 58:39.160]  court and hopefully before it even gets to that point, because again, they're breaking
[58:39.160 --> 58:40.160]  the law.
[58:40.160 --> 58:48.840]  We'll be right back.
[58:48.840 --> 59:04.520]  Activism, education, celebration, looking for something to do this October?
[59:04.520 --> 59:25.360]  The end of September is coming.
[59:25.360 --> 59:28.000]  for everyone who loves freedom of all ages.
[59:28.000 --> 59:30.480]  Don't miss the Midwest Liberty Festival
[59:30.480 --> 59:33.280]  at the State Fairgrounds in Duquion, Illinois,
[59:33.280 --> 59:36.080]  October 9th, 10th, and 11th.
[59:36.080 --> 59:40.240]  Visit the website at www.MidwestLibertyFest.com
[59:40.240 --> 59:41.600]  for all the details.
[59:41.600 --> 59:45.120]  That's www.MidwestLibertyFest.com.
[59:45.120 --> 59:47.440]  Don't let the fall blues get you down.
[59:47.440 --> 59:48.720]  Come join the fun.
[59:48.720 --> 59:49.680]  Tickets are going fast,
[59:49.680 --> 59:52.480]  so don't miss out on the Midwest Liberty Fest,
[59:52.480 --> 59:59.040]  the best October fest this year at www.MidwestLibertyFest.com.
[59:59.040 --> 01:00:03.200]  This news brief brought to you by the International Newsnet.
[01:00:03.200 --> 01:00:08.000]  A new poll in Pakistan shows 76% opposed Pakistan's
[01:00:08.000 --> 01:00:11.040]  partnering with the US on drone attacks,
[01:00:11.040 --> 01:00:15.200]  and 80% opposed accepting US military assistance.
[01:00:15.200 --> 01:00:18.640]  Media personality Kamran Khan says the United States
[01:00:18.640 --> 01:00:22.000]  is seen as an occupying force moving unilaterally
[01:00:22.000 --> 01:00:24.320]  against Muslim nations.
[01:00:24.320 --> 01:00:28.320]  In Iraq Wednesday, seven Iraqis were killed and 10 wounded.
[01:00:28.320 --> 01:00:31.120]  General Ray Odierno said 4,000 US troops
[01:00:31.120 --> 01:00:33.600]  will be heading home from Iraq next month.
[01:00:33.600 --> 01:00:36.640]  However, Defense Secretary Robert Gates last month
[01:00:36.640 --> 01:00:40.400]  approved adding 1,000 troops to those already in Iraq
[01:00:40.400 --> 01:00:44.720]  on top of a significant increase in US contractors.
[01:00:44.720 --> 01:00:47.520]  Venezuela's top prosecutor is asking Interpol
[01:00:47.520 --> 01:00:51.040]  to capture former President Carlos Andres Perez
[01:00:51.040 --> 01:00:54.800]  for violence committed during protests two decades ago.
[01:00:54.800 --> 01:00:58.000]  He's also wanted on corruption charges.
[01:00:58.000 --> 01:01:02.400]  Top of the hour news brought to you by INN World Report.
[01:01:02.400 --> 01:01:05.600]  The American Civil Liberties Union says the FBI
[01:01:05.600 --> 01:01:08.800]  is abusing the Patriot Act's gag order provision,
[01:01:08.800 --> 01:01:13.040]  thus stifling debate about reforming that very law.
[01:01:13.040 --> 01:01:16.080]  National security letters created under the Patriot Act
[01:01:16.080 --> 01:01:19.840]  allow the FBI to demand sensitive information
[01:01:19.840 --> 01:01:22.640]  about libraries and internet service providers
[01:01:22.640 --> 01:01:24.720]  and then bar those organizations
[01:01:24.720 --> 01:01:27.200]  from revealing the order was ever given.
[01:01:27.200 --> 01:01:30.640]  The ACLU's claim comes after Senate Democrats
[01:01:30.640 --> 01:01:33.520]  introduced the Justice Act, a bill designed
[01:01:33.520 --> 01:01:36.960]  to protect civil rights threatened by the Patriot Act.
[01:01:36.960 --> 01:01:38.640]  Several elements of the Patriot Act
[01:01:38.640 --> 01:01:41.440]  are set to expire at the end of the year.
[01:01:41.440 --> 01:01:44.800]  The ACLU says the FBI's use of gag orders
[01:01:44.800 --> 01:01:46.960]  makes it impossible to evaluate
[01:01:46.960 --> 01:01:49.600]  how national security letters have been used
[01:01:49.600 --> 01:01:52.160]  and what needs to be done to fix them.
[01:01:52.160 --> 01:01:54.560]  The Patriot Act was rammed through Congress
[01:01:54.560 --> 01:01:57.440]  during the 2001 anthrax scare.
[01:01:57.440 --> 01:02:00.560]  The group is challenging the NSLs in a lawsuit
[01:02:00.560 --> 01:02:05.440]  claiming misuse of government power.
[01:02:05.440 --> 01:02:09.600]  CIT, the major lender to small and medium-sized businesses
[01:02:09.600 --> 01:02:12.720]  that came back from the brink of bankruptcy in July,
[01:02:12.720 --> 01:02:14.400]  is back on the brink.
[01:02:14.400 --> 01:02:16.320]  The Wall Street Journal says the company
[01:02:16.320 --> 01:02:18.720]  is furiously trying to work out a deal
[01:02:18.720 --> 01:02:20.960]  with bondholders that would wipe out
[01:02:20.960 --> 01:02:24.320]  30 to 40% of its $30 billion debt.
[01:02:24.320 --> 01:02:26.640]  If the bondholder deal falls through,
[01:02:26.640 --> 01:02:29.760]  the company will likely have to file for bankruptcy.
[01:02:29.760 --> 01:02:31.840]  The last ditch effort to avoid bankruptcy
[01:02:31.840 --> 01:02:35.760]  is the latest chapter in a saga that has gone on for months.
[01:02:35.760 --> 01:02:39.280]  CIT accounts for 60 to 70% of financing
[01:02:39.280 --> 01:02:41.600]  for small and medium-sized businesses
[01:02:41.600 --> 01:02:45.440]  such as Dillard's department stores and Dunkin' Donuts.
[01:02:45.440 --> 01:02:47.360]  But the company ran into problems
[01:02:47.360 --> 01:02:51.120]  after getting into subprime mortgage and student lending.
[01:02:51.120 --> 01:02:54.400]  In July, CIT secured a $3 billion agreement
[01:02:54.400 --> 01:03:21.120]  with bondholders to stave off bankruptcy.
[01:03:21.120 --> 01:03:27.840]  It's all according to the will of the Almighty.
[01:03:27.840 --> 01:03:35.200]  I read his book and he says he cares not for the unsightly.
[01:03:35.200 --> 01:03:44.000]  These warmongers come by that term rightly.
[01:03:44.000 --> 01:03:47.280]  I won't pay for the war with my body.
[01:03:47.280 --> 01:03:50.640]  Ain't gonna pay for the car with my money.
[01:03:50.640 --> 01:03:54.000]  I won't pay for the fun with my body.
[01:03:54.000 --> 01:03:57.440]  Their plans wicked and their logic shoddy.
[01:03:57.440 --> 01:04:00.880]  Ain't gonna pay for the oil with my body.
[01:04:00.880 --> 01:04:04.160]  I won't pay for the boys with my money.
[01:04:04.160 --> 01:04:08.400]  Ain't gonna pay for the kids with my body.
[01:04:08.400 --> 01:04:11.760]  The whole agenda smells funny.
[01:04:11.760 --> 01:04:18.400]  I wanna fight in a war of my own.
[01:04:18.400 --> 01:04:21.360]  That one would be left back to the cold.
[01:04:21.360 --> 01:04:24.160]  Perfect song for the segue.
[01:04:24.160 --> 01:04:28.560]  When I'm fighting in a war of my own.
[01:04:28.560 --> 01:04:32.560]  Okay, we're the ones picking the fight this time.
[01:04:32.560 --> 01:04:35.040]  We're calling the shots.
[01:04:35.040 --> 01:04:38.240]  We're setting the rules of the game and we're gonna win.
[01:04:38.240 --> 01:04:40.960]  So perfect, perfect song.
[01:04:40.960 --> 01:04:43.760]  More Three Shoes Posse and Route 1 music there for you.
[01:04:43.760 --> 01:04:45.200]  Actually, that's Route 1.
[01:04:45.200 --> 01:04:47.200]  It's gonna be on the Route 1 CD.
[01:04:47.200 --> 01:04:50.400]  So Mike, we were discussing as we were leading into the break,
[01:04:50.400 --> 01:04:53.920]  you were talking about why they don't want to fight us.
[01:04:53.920 --> 01:04:55.200]  Right.
[01:04:55.200 --> 01:04:58.000]  Yeah, and as I said, we were talking about racking up
[01:04:58.000 --> 01:05:01.680]  the violations and the damages, if you remember.
[01:05:01.680 --> 01:05:06.240]  And, you know, you improve your damages on your credit score.
[01:05:06.240 --> 01:05:13.680]  It certainly has dropped well below the greatly admired 700 points or better.
[01:05:13.680 --> 01:05:15.360]  You can show damage to the report
[01:05:15.360 --> 01:05:19.120]  because they're reporting it in your report.
[01:05:19.120 --> 01:05:23.360]  And you can show that, you know, you're being turned down for credit cards.
[01:05:23.360 --> 01:05:25.200]  It's important you keep that paper trail.
[01:05:25.200 --> 01:05:27.040]  When you get turned down for that credit card,
[01:05:27.040 --> 01:05:28.720]  keep that letter they send you that says,
[01:05:28.720 --> 01:05:30.480]  ah, we can't issue the credit card
[01:05:30.480 --> 01:05:32.480]  because you've got something in your credit report
[01:05:32.480 --> 01:05:34.720]  that's preventing us from doing that.
[01:05:34.720 --> 01:05:37.520]  That's proof, ladies and gentlemen, black and white.
[01:05:37.520 --> 01:05:39.520]  Mike, let me ask you something here real quick.
[01:05:39.520 --> 01:05:40.640]  I just wanted to interject.
[01:05:40.640 --> 01:05:42.000]  Okay, you're talking about the damages
[01:05:42.000 --> 01:05:46.400]  and them ruining your credit score and all these kinds of things.
[01:05:46.400 --> 01:05:49.520]  At that point, does the debt come into play
[01:05:49.520 --> 01:05:52.160]  or whether you've been making payments or not?
[01:05:52.160 --> 01:05:55.280]  Does that enter into the equation at all?
[01:05:55.280 --> 01:05:57.520]  I mean, wouldn't a judge or a jury say,
[01:05:57.520 --> 01:06:02.320]  well, wait a minute, you're saying this credit card company damaged you,
[01:06:02.320 --> 01:06:04.720]  but if you didn't pay, then you deserved it.
[01:06:04.720 --> 01:06:07.920]  I mean, does that ever come into the picture at this point?
[01:06:07.920 --> 01:06:10.960]  No, because they're reporting erroneous and inaccurate information.
[01:06:10.960 --> 01:06:12.000]  And I'm going to explain that.
[01:06:12.000 --> 01:06:13.120]  I'm glad you brought that up.
[01:06:13.120 --> 01:06:13.600]  Excellent.
[01:06:13.600 --> 01:06:14.960]  I'm going to make things a little clearer.
[01:06:15.920 --> 01:06:17.840]  Under the law, it's quite simple.
[01:06:17.840 --> 01:06:22.400]  When you dispute or ask for validation, there is a difference.
[01:06:23.120 --> 01:06:27.600]  You validate with a debt collector or a debt collector attorney.
[01:06:28.160 --> 01:06:33.760]  You dispute with the credit card creditor, bank or the credit bureau.
[01:06:35.440 --> 01:06:39.440]  A dispute to the bank or credit card company is quite simple.
[01:06:39.440 --> 01:06:44.400]  You send them a little letter, don't help them, don't help them.
[01:06:44.720 --> 01:06:46.400]  Okay, I'll tell you why in a minute.
[01:06:47.920 --> 01:06:51.520]  Your name, address, on the letter, that's it.
[01:06:51.920 --> 01:06:54.960]  I noticed this credit line in my credit report.
[01:06:55.440 --> 01:06:59.200]  I dispute the account, sign it and mail it to them.
[01:06:59.920 --> 01:07:01.040]  Certified mail.
[01:07:02.560 --> 01:07:03.360]  Why?
[01:07:03.920 --> 01:07:04.880]  Go read the law.
[01:07:06.160 --> 01:07:07.360]  I don't make this stuff up.
[01:07:07.360 --> 01:07:09.920]  It's in black and white under the Fair Credit Reporting Act.
[01:07:09.920 --> 01:07:15.280]  And it says, if you dispute an account, they need to do a couple of things.
[01:07:16.720 --> 01:07:19.280]  And the first thing they need to do is an investigation.
[01:07:20.000 --> 01:07:25.840]  They need to verify the information and to determine if they're reporting it correctly or not.
[01:07:26.400 --> 01:07:36.000]  But the law also states, the part I love, is that they must mark the account in dispute when challenged.
[01:07:36.000 --> 01:07:39.840]  And they never do, or seldom do.
[01:07:39.840 --> 01:07:44.320]  I'd say 99% of the time they never do, because you're just a little consumer, what do you know?
[01:07:44.320 --> 01:07:45.120]  Okay?
[01:07:47.280 --> 01:07:52.320]  If they don't mark the account in dispute, it's a $1,000 violation.
[01:07:53.920 --> 01:07:57.360]  Now, if it's in three credit reports, guess what?
[01:07:57.920 --> 01:07:59.680]  It's $3,000.
[01:08:01.120 --> 01:08:04.480]  Right across the board, black and white folks, look at it.
[01:08:04.480 --> 01:08:06.080]  Okay? It's right there.
[01:08:06.080 --> 01:08:08.080]  They need to mark the account in dispute.
[01:08:08.080 --> 01:08:10.080]  They don't do it.
[01:08:10.800 --> 01:08:15.120]  Now, you sent them that dispute letter, and the dispute letter says,
[01:08:15.120 --> 01:08:17.600]  hey, I don't know what you're talking about, da-da-da-da-da.
[01:08:17.600 --> 01:08:19.600]  Okay.
[01:08:23.600 --> 01:08:28.640]  They are supposed to validate or prove the debt.
[01:08:29.120 --> 01:08:34.400]  Most of the time, they don't answer, and I can almost assuredly assure you that
[01:08:34.400 --> 01:08:38.640]  assure you 100% that if it's been charged off, they're not even going to bother
[01:08:38.640 --> 01:08:40.400]  because you're not in their records anymore.
[01:08:41.360 --> 01:08:45.680]  That's a real problem, because the law says if you dispute it, they have to answer you.
[01:08:46.480 --> 01:08:51.840]  And when they don't, they're reporting erroneous and inaccurate information.
[01:08:51.840 --> 01:08:53.680]  Hey, I asked you to prove something to me.
[01:08:54.240 --> 01:08:58.480]  In black and white, such a certified letter, you don't even respond.
[01:08:58.480 --> 01:09:01.440]  So you must be reporting erroneous and inaccurate information.
[01:09:01.440 --> 01:09:04.240]  That's your second violation across three boards.
[01:09:04.240 --> 01:09:05.760]  There's $6,000.
[01:09:05.760 --> 01:09:07.040]  Wait a minute, it gets better.
[01:09:07.040 --> 01:09:09.040]  It gets better.
[01:09:10.800 --> 01:09:15.840]  The next month, when they update the report again, it doubles.
[01:09:15.840 --> 01:09:19.040]  So now you've got $12,000 in violations.
[01:09:19.040 --> 01:09:23.840]  Wait one more month, you've got $18,000 in violations.
[01:09:23.840 --> 01:09:29.440]  And you know what I get a kick out of, is I've had letters come back, not me personally,
[01:09:29.440 --> 01:09:35.120]  but people I've worked with, that the bank will send you back a letter and say to you,
[01:09:35.120 --> 01:09:37.920]  geez, we can't find this account.
[01:09:37.920 --> 01:09:41.200]  Can you provide us with your Social Security number?
[01:09:42.880 --> 01:09:45.440]  And I just kind of chuckle and say, yeah, right.
[01:09:47.680 --> 01:09:50.080]  Folks, they're in your records.
[01:09:50.080 --> 01:09:56.880]  Folks, they're in your credit report and they're trying to tell you they don't know who you are.
[01:09:56.880 --> 01:09:58.080]  Is that what you're trying to get?
[01:09:58.080 --> 01:10:00.880]  Try to get that to fly with the jury, okay?
[01:10:02.800 --> 01:10:05.680]  You're in my credit report and you don't know who I am.
[01:10:05.680 --> 01:10:09.360]  You won't even send an explanation as to why you're into it.
[01:10:09.360 --> 01:10:13.840]  And you're now asking me to prove to you who I am when you're making the accusation.
[01:10:13.840 --> 01:10:17.040]  There's a thing in this country called due process.
[01:10:17.040 --> 01:10:18.640]  You're accusing me of something.
[01:10:18.640 --> 01:10:21.440]  You better be able to prove it and they never do.
[01:10:22.080 --> 01:10:24.160]  Now, Mike, let me ask you something.
[01:10:24.160 --> 01:10:32.080]  Are the credit reporting agencies as well as the banks liable for these fines since
[01:10:32.080 --> 01:10:36.240]  the credit reporting agencies are actually the ones that are reporting this erroneous information?
[01:10:36.960 --> 01:10:40.640]  Yes, but in this phase of it, you're going to use the credit bureau against them.
[01:10:41.440 --> 01:10:41.760]  Okay.
[01:10:42.480 --> 01:10:43.920]  Okay, and here's how that's done.
[01:10:43.920 --> 01:10:49.680]  When you dispute this with the creditor, you do it certified mail.
[01:10:49.680 --> 01:10:51.200]  Everything is certified mail.
[01:10:52.240 --> 01:10:54.640]  Return, receive, request it, okay?
[01:10:55.440 --> 01:10:59.280]  I don't want any BS down the line that says we never got it.
[01:10:59.280 --> 01:11:00.320]  Oh, yes, you did.
[01:11:00.320 --> 01:11:02.160]  I got the signed card right here.
[01:11:02.160 --> 01:11:04.960]  And the courts love black and white folks.
[01:11:04.960 --> 01:11:09.120]  When you go to those interrogatories and you got to show them proof and they say,
[01:11:09.120 --> 01:11:10.560]  oh, we never got the letter.
[01:11:10.560 --> 01:11:12.160]  Well, here's the signed green card.
[01:11:12.160 --> 01:11:12.720]  What do you mean?
[01:11:12.720 --> 01:11:15.600]  Go and dispute that one in the court, okay?
[01:11:15.600 --> 01:11:22.480]  Anyhow, when you send those letters out, the validation letter, the dispute letters,
[01:11:23.120 --> 01:11:27.360]  you wait, you go on the internet, you look at the US Postal Service site,
[01:11:27.360 --> 01:11:30.800]  you can track your certified mailing and you'll see the day they get it.
[01:11:33.680 --> 01:11:38.000]  The day they get it, you're going to start a dispute for the same credit line
[01:11:39.200 --> 01:11:40.240]  with the credit bureau.
[01:11:40.240 --> 01:11:43.440]  Now, the credit bureau's got to do an investigation.
[01:11:45.280 --> 01:11:49.680]  They'll tell you, oh, yeah, we've got to, you know, you got to give us 30 days
[01:11:49.680 --> 01:11:52.800]  and it's more like 45, you know, to do the investigation.
[01:11:52.800 --> 01:11:56.800]  But by law, it says it in the Fair Credit Reporting Act.
[01:11:57.520 --> 01:12:00.560]  If I dispute something, you need to do an investigation.
[01:12:00.560 --> 01:12:01.600]  The law is very clear.
[01:12:02.640 --> 01:12:08.240]  The problem is if you really know how long it takes for the bureaus to do an investigation,
[01:12:08.240 --> 01:12:10.640]  you'll fall out of the chair.
[01:12:10.640 --> 01:12:13.920]  And here's the whole bit behind that.
[01:12:13.920 --> 01:12:16.800]  There's 350 million people in the United States
[01:12:16.800 --> 01:12:19.840]  and say 300 million of them have credit reports
[01:12:19.840 --> 01:12:22.240]  and they get complaints on a daily basis
[01:12:22.240 --> 01:12:26.480]  and they've got 200 agents who work in the bureau that have to do,
[01:12:26.480 --> 01:12:29.040]  the credit bureau that have to do investigations.
[01:12:29.040 --> 01:12:29.760]  They're told.
[01:12:31.200 --> 01:12:32.000]  They're told.
[01:12:32.640 --> 01:12:37.040]  They must perform six investigations a day, or an hour rather.
[01:12:37.040 --> 01:12:38.480]  Six investigations an hour.
[01:12:38.480 --> 01:12:39.040]  Well, let's see.
[01:12:40.080 --> 01:12:44.720]  60 minutes to an hour, six, that's 10 minutes per investigation.
[01:12:44.720 --> 01:12:46.240]  What do you think they're investigating?
[01:12:47.440 --> 01:12:49.280]  They're investigating the computer screen
[01:12:49.280 --> 01:12:52.560]  to see how the creditor reported it the last month.
[01:12:52.560 --> 01:12:55.040]  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's your debt.
[01:12:55.040 --> 01:12:55.600]  You got it.
[01:12:56.320 --> 01:12:59.440]  The whole purpose of disputing this with them at this time
[01:13:01.040 --> 01:13:03.520]  is you want them to come back to you and say,
[01:13:03.520 --> 01:13:07.040]  hey, we're reporting this correctly.
[01:13:08.800 --> 01:13:10.960]  Well, if you're reporting it correctly
[01:13:10.960 --> 01:13:14.560]  and you've disputed it with the debt collector or the creditor,
[01:13:14.560 --> 01:13:16.480]  why haven't they marked it in dispute?
[01:13:20.080 --> 01:13:21.840]  Raises some questions, doesn't it?
[01:13:22.880 --> 01:13:26.240]  But the problem with this whole thing
[01:13:26.240 --> 01:13:28.080]  or the reason why you do it this way
[01:13:28.080 --> 01:13:30.080]  is that when they go in that courtroom,
[01:13:30.080 --> 01:13:32.400]  they will use that, if you don't do it this way,
[01:13:32.400 --> 01:13:35.840]  they will use that as an excuse to get out of this,
[01:13:35.840 --> 01:13:40.800]  is that, listen, we told the credit bureau to mark that in a dispute
[01:13:40.800 --> 01:13:43.600]  and they failed to do it, and you can sit there and go,
[01:13:43.600 --> 01:13:45.760]  eh, I got the report right here.
[01:13:45.760 --> 01:13:47.920]  They were investigating it the same time
[01:13:47.920 --> 01:13:50.400]  you were supposed to be investigating it,
[01:13:50.400 --> 01:13:53.520]  and they're saying you didn't mark it in dispute.
[01:13:54.400 --> 01:13:55.520]  So who's lying here?
[01:13:55.520 --> 01:13:58.160]  So who's lying here?
[01:13:59.600 --> 01:14:02.240]  Let's not muddy the waters, let's make it black and white.
[01:14:02.880 --> 01:14:03.920]  They don't want to go there.
[01:14:03.920 --> 01:14:06.080]  I never had one of these guys come back
[01:14:06.080 --> 01:14:09.040]  when I've had this stuff in hand and say that to me.
[01:14:09.920 --> 01:14:12.800]  It's very powerful, very powerful.
[01:14:12.800 --> 01:14:15.360]  And all you're doing is invoking your right under the law.
[01:14:17.120 --> 01:14:20.080]  You're asking them to do an investigation
[01:14:20.080 --> 01:14:24.320]  and you're disputing the account, do the right thing.
[01:14:24.320 --> 01:14:28.720]  Now, the bureau can mark that account in dispute,
[01:14:28.720 --> 01:14:32.400]  they can say, the consumer disputes this,
[01:14:32.400 --> 01:14:33.680]  and I've seen that happen.
[01:14:34.400 --> 01:14:38.000]  Well, it's a big difference between the consumer disputing it
[01:14:38.000 --> 01:14:40.880]  and the creditor debt collector saying it's in dispute.
[01:14:41.520 --> 01:14:45.120]  Two different things, because the creditor will come back
[01:14:45.120 --> 01:14:48.080]  and say the creditor's marking this in dispute
[01:14:48.080 --> 01:14:49.680]  as opposed to the consumer.
[01:14:49.680 --> 01:14:51.680]  So it's very clear, it's black and white.
[01:14:51.680 --> 01:14:52.880]  They're going to do one or two things.
[01:14:52.880 --> 01:14:55.280]  Either they're going to say they're reporting it correctly
[01:14:55.280 --> 01:14:56.960]  or the consumer's disputing this.
[01:14:58.160 --> 01:15:01.280]  So the question is why isn't the debt collector
[01:15:01.280 --> 01:15:03.440]  or the credit card company not putting it in dispute
[01:15:03.440 --> 01:15:05.520]  when they're doing their alleged investigation?
[01:15:08.880 --> 01:15:10.000]  Is it getting a little clearer?
[01:15:11.200 --> 01:15:14.640]  And you have black and white that you disputed it.
[01:15:15.520 --> 01:15:16.160]  Yep.
[01:15:16.160 --> 01:15:18.400]  So it's kind of what we call dead bang.
[01:15:18.400 --> 01:15:24.000]  Yeah, yeah, you know, I cannot emphasize the paper trail.
[01:15:24.000 --> 01:15:25.440]  This is what's going to kill them.
[01:15:25.440 --> 01:15:27.840]  Because when you're dealing with big corporations,
[01:15:27.840 --> 01:15:29.120]  they're not good paper trail.
[01:15:29.680 --> 01:15:32.480]  This gentleman I was talking about earlier, the chiropractor,
[01:15:33.920 --> 01:15:36.640]  he went into this court case recently with this big bank
[01:15:37.360 --> 01:15:39.520]  that the judge turned the decision around
[01:15:39.520 --> 01:15:42.480]  and told them they have to accept the service
[01:15:42.480 --> 01:15:44.800]  or he's going to get default judgment, and they did.
[01:15:45.440 --> 01:15:47.280]  And they went to the second conference meeting.
[01:15:47.280 --> 01:15:49.600]  And this conference meeting is just the magistrate judge,
[01:15:50.320 --> 01:15:51.600]  my guy, and the lawyer,
[01:15:51.600 --> 01:15:53.040]  just three of them in a little courtroom.
[01:15:54.160 --> 01:15:58.000]  The lawyer gets up during the conversation.
[01:15:58.000 --> 01:15:58.880]  I love it.
[01:15:58.880 --> 01:16:00.160]  I just love this stuff.
[01:16:01.040 --> 01:16:03.680]  The lawyer stands up and he says to the judge,
[01:16:05.040 --> 01:16:08.800]  your honor, we're having a problem finding the letter.
[01:16:08.800 --> 01:16:12.400]  We're having a problem with the paper trail finding the letter.
[01:16:12.400 --> 01:16:15.440]  And I asked my guy, who didn't pick up on that quick enough,
[01:16:15.440 --> 01:16:17.840]  I said, did you get up and object?
[01:16:19.200 --> 01:16:20.480]  And he says, no, why?
[01:16:20.480 --> 01:16:26.160]  And I says, because the attorney just admitted
[01:16:27.840 --> 01:16:31.600]  when he said, we can't find the letter.
[01:16:31.600 --> 01:16:34.000]  We don't, we're having trouble with the paper trail.
[01:16:37.920 --> 01:16:38.420]  Yeah.
[01:16:39.280 --> 01:16:40.080]  He just admitted what?
[01:16:40.080 --> 01:16:40.400]  Go ahead.
[01:16:40.400 --> 01:16:41.440]  You got 18 seconds.
[01:16:41.440 --> 01:16:42.960]  He just admitted guilt
[01:16:42.960 --> 01:16:46.320]  that they don't have the systems in place to prevent errors.
[01:16:46.320 --> 01:16:47.760]  Go read the floor, folks.
[01:16:47.760 --> 01:16:50.080]  It says right in the wall, these creditors,
[01:16:50.080 --> 01:16:53.040]  the credit reporting agencies must have systems in place
[01:16:53.040 --> 01:16:54.480]  to prevent error.
[01:16:54.480 --> 01:16:55.280]  All right.
[01:16:55.280 --> 01:16:56.480]  We'll be right back.
[01:16:56.480 --> 01:16:58.400]  Hello, Austin.
[01:16:58.400 --> 01:17:00.880]  My name is Harlan Deidre, owner of Brave New Books,
[01:17:00.880 --> 01:17:03.280]  a local independent bookstore here in town.
[01:17:03.280 --> 01:17:04.960]  Many of you are familiar with the bookstore
[01:17:04.960 --> 01:17:06.880]  and have attended some of our events.
[01:17:06.880 --> 01:17:09.040]  We've been proud to host speakers like Alex Jones,
[01:17:09.040 --> 01:17:11.440]  Ron Paul, Jim Mars, Catherine Albert,
[01:17:11.440 --> 01:17:13.360]  Webster Carpenter, G. Edward Griffin,
[01:17:13.360 --> 01:17:16.000]  and many other heroic figures in the patriot movement.
[01:17:16.000 --> 01:17:18.640]  But now Brave New Books needs your help.
[01:17:18.640 --> 01:17:21.360]  In order to continue to provide a space for these events
[01:17:21.360 --> 01:17:23.760]  and be an outlet for hard to find materials,
[01:17:23.760 --> 01:17:25.280]  we're going to need you, Austin,
[01:17:25.280 --> 01:17:27.440]  to help spread the word about the bookstore.
[01:17:27.440 --> 01:17:28.960]  Please tell your friends and family
[01:17:28.960 --> 01:17:31.440]  about the wide variety of materials we offer.
[01:17:31.440 --> 01:17:33.920]  We also have DVD duplication capabilities
[01:17:33.920 --> 01:17:35.520]  for all you activists.
[01:17:35.520 --> 01:17:37.440]  Also, if you haven't visited us yet,
[01:17:37.440 --> 01:17:39.440]  please come down and show your support.
[01:17:39.440 --> 01:17:41.840]  It is so easy to support the big corporate chain stores
[01:17:41.840 --> 01:17:44.000]  that do nothing to further our message.
[01:17:44.000 --> 01:17:46.240]  Remember, you vote with your dollars.
[01:17:46.240 --> 01:17:47.680]  We're counting on you, Austin.
[01:17:47.680 --> 01:17:52.240]  If you need any information, please call 512-480-2503
[01:17:52.240 --> 01:17:54.800]  or visit us at 1904 Guadalupe Street.
[01:17:54.800 --> 01:17:56.240]  Thank you, everyone.
[01:17:56.240 --> 01:18:09.040]  Thank you, everyone.
[01:18:26.240 --> 01:18:33.280]  Okay, we're not going to fall for the same old tricks again.
[01:18:33.280 --> 01:18:35.840]  Well, I'll tell you that I got the bumper music program
[01:18:35.840 --> 01:18:37.040]  just perfect tonight.
[01:18:38.960 --> 01:18:42.240]  Mike, okay, please go over this again one time.
[01:18:43.280 --> 01:18:46.240]  Where you're talking about, it says in the law
[01:18:46.240 --> 01:18:49.200]  that they have to have all these systems in place
[01:18:50.480 --> 01:18:52.080]  to keep this paper trail going.
[01:18:52.080 --> 01:18:53.760]  And then also, if you would just back up
[01:18:53.760 --> 01:18:57.760]  and go over that dispute section again that you were discussing
[01:18:57.760 --> 01:19:01.200]  where it will say in one case, the consumer disputes
[01:19:01.200 --> 01:19:04.400]  rather than the creditors reporting that it's in dispute.
[01:19:04.400 --> 01:19:07.280]  So if you could just go over those two things again, please.
[01:19:07.280 --> 01:19:07.780]  Sure.
[01:19:08.480 --> 01:19:10.960]  I'll just touch on that briefly again.
[01:19:12.080 --> 01:19:15.280]  When they do an investigation, okay,
[01:19:15.280 --> 01:19:19.280]  the law says they must mark the account in dispute, okay?
[01:19:19.920 --> 01:19:23.040]  They're doing an investigation and they might require 30 days.
[01:19:23.040 --> 01:19:25.120]  The bureau or the creditor or whatever.
[01:19:25.680 --> 01:19:30.240]  But the law also states that if it's disputed by a consumer,
[01:19:30.240 --> 01:19:32.000]  they have to mark the account in dispute.
[01:19:32.000 --> 01:19:33.600]  Now, they can do an investigation
[01:19:33.600 --> 01:19:36.720]  and come back a month later and remove the dispute.
[01:19:38.480 --> 01:19:39.920]  Nothing stops them from doing that.
[01:19:39.920 --> 01:19:41.600]  And I don't know anything in the law
[01:19:41.600 --> 01:19:42.960]  that prevents them from doing that.
[01:19:42.960 --> 01:19:45.680]  But they don't do it from the first set.
[01:19:45.680 --> 01:19:49.840]  So why follow the law and take it back out or put it in?
[01:19:49.840 --> 01:19:51.440]  They just don't do it, okay?
[01:19:51.440 --> 01:19:54.320]  So you're saying that they would have to report
[01:19:54.320 --> 01:19:58.240]  to the credit agency that the account is in dispute.
[01:19:59.120 --> 01:20:02.320]  The creditor has to report to the credit agency
[01:20:02.320 --> 01:20:03.520]  that the account is in dispute.
[01:20:03.520 --> 01:20:05.200]  And you're saying they don't do that.
[01:20:05.200 --> 01:20:08.480]  And so when you're telling the credit agency it's in dispute,
[01:20:08.480 --> 01:20:10.320]  then what will appear on your credit record
[01:20:10.320 --> 01:20:12.480]  is that the consumer disputes it.
[01:20:12.480 --> 01:20:14.240]  Is that what you're saying goes on?
[01:20:14.240 --> 01:20:15.200]  Well, maybe.
[01:20:15.760 --> 01:20:17.120]  Sometimes they do.
[01:20:17.120 --> 01:20:18.160]  Sometimes they do.
[01:20:18.160 --> 01:20:19.920]  But that doesn't apply to the creditor.
[01:20:20.560 --> 01:20:20.880]  Right.
[01:20:20.880 --> 01:20:22.560]  The consumer, there's a big difference
[01:20:22.560 --> 01:20:24.640]  between a consumer and a creditor, okay?
[01:20:26.000 --> 01:20:27.680]  And they'll put in, you know, okay,
[01:20:27.680 --> 01:20:29.920]  the consumer disputes this, okay?
[01:20:29.920 --> 01:20:30.720]  Okay, who cares?
[01:20:31.520 --> 01:20:33.520]  But most of the time,
[01:20:33.520 --> 01:20:35.600]  they come back with the standard response
[01:20:35.600 --> 01:20:38.560]  because they don't want to P.O. their customers, okay?
[01:20:40.640 --> 01:20:42.880]  And the response will be from the credit bureau,
[01:20:42.880 --> 01:20:44.560]  we're reporting this correctly.
[01:20:44.560 --> 01:20:47.040]  Or we find this dispute frivolous
[01:20:47.040 --> 01:20:48.960]  because you've asked us in the past
[01:20:48.960 --> 01:20:50.560]  and we reported on it.
[01:20:50.560 --> 01:20:53.200]  And we find it's frivolous.
[01:20:53.200 --> 01:20:55.440]  We're not going to do anything, okay?
[01:20:55.440 --> 01:20:56.000]  Which is good.
[01:20:56.000 --> 01:20:57.040]  That's what you want them to do.
[01:20:57.920 --> 01:20:59.360]  That's what you want them to do.
[01:20:59.360 --> 01:21:00.880]  And the law is very clear.
[01:21:02.080 --> 01:21:07.040]  It says any person who enters into credit reports
[01:21:08.000 --> 01:21:10.080]  is responsible for following the law.
[01:21:10.080 --> 01:21:11.600]  And a person in this case,
[01:21:12.720 --> 01:21:16.880]  they're using it as a word that covers creditors,
[01:21:17.600 --> 01:21:18.560]  debt collectors,
[01:21:18.560 --> 01:21:21.600]  any person who enters into the credit report.
[01:21:21.600 --> 01:21:22.720]  And when you read the law,
[01:21:22.720 --> 01:21:25.760]  you'll see that word in their person, okay?
[01:21:25.760 --> 01:21:27.280]  In this case, it means a bank,
[01:21:27.280 --> 01:21:29.360]  a credit card company, a loan company,
[01:21:29.360 --> 01:21:30.560]  I don't care what it is.
[01:21:30.560 --> 01:21:32.480]  They loan you money, they're considered a person.
[01:21:35.840 --> 01:21:37.920]  So I think that'll make it a little bit clearer for you.
[01:21:37.920 --> 01:21:41.920]  I think Eddie has addressed the definition of person.
[01:21:43.120 --> 01:21:44.160]  Eddie, you there?
[01:21:44.160 --> 01:21:45.120]  Yeah, I'm here.
[01:21:45.120 --> 01:21:48.720]  Can you kind of step through the definition of person?
[01:21:50.240 --> 01:21:52.960]  Well, the definition of person basically is
[01:21:54.160 --> 01:21:57.280]  an association, corporation, governmental entity,
[01:21:57.280 --> 01:21:59.760]  basically anything created from statute
[01:22:01.920 --> 01:22:04.800]  that can engage in commerce through contracts
[01:22:04.800 --> 01:22:06.880]  or any other means of that nature.
[01:22:06.880 --> 01:22:08.720]  That is a person in law.
[01:22:08.720 --> 01:22:11.920]  So it sounds like to a normal person listening to this,
[01:22:12.800 --> 01:22:14.640]  normal person, a normal human,
[01:22:14.640 --> 01:22:17.440]  that they're talking about a living being.
[01:22:18.640 --> 01:22:19.680]  Yeah, they probably.
[01:22:19.680 --> 01:22:22.000]  Person, they're talking about the company,
[01:22:22.880 --> 01:22:26.640]  not the human being who actually typed the keys.
[01:22:26.640 --> 01:22:27.280]  Correct.
[01:22:27.280 --> 01:22:29.760]  Anytime the term person is used
[01:22:29.760 --> 01:22:31.600]  in reference to an actual man,
[01:22:32.160 --> 01:22:35.040]  the definition of person must contain
[01:22:35.040 --> 01:22:37.280]  the term natural person.
[01:22:38.240 --> 01:22:40.000]  Yeah, they purposely use.
[01:22:40.000 --> 01:22:42.240]  Does not apply to a man at all.
[01:22:42.240 --> 01:22:44.880]  It only applies to a statutory position.
[01:22:45.520 --> 01:22:49.920]  Yeah, they purposely use common language terms like this
[01:22:50.640 --> 01:22:53.440]  that they twist around to mean other things
[01:22:53.440 --> 01:22:54.400]  to try to trick us.
[01:22:55.840 --> 01:22:59.840]  Well, you guys did notice that in the federal constitution,
[01:22:59.840 --> 01:23:03.120]  the term person exists in only one section.
[01:23:05.360 --> 01:23:06.960]  And that is the 14th Amendment.
[01:23:06.960 --> 01:23:10.880]  And all the rest of the time, it's the people.
[01:23:12.880 --> 01:23:13.380]  Right.
[01:23:16.320 --> 01:23:17.520]  Okay, go ahead, Mike.
[01:23:17.520 --> 01:23:18.480]  So go ahead, Mike.
[01:23:18.480 --> 01:23:19.680]  So right before the break,
[01:23:19.680 --> 01:23:20.960]  thank you for going over that again.
[01:23:20.960 --> 01:23:22.640]  So right before the break,
[01:23:22.640 --> 01:23:24.240]  you were talking about how they're required
[01:23:24.240 --> 01:23:29.760]  under the statute to basically keep their records in order.
[01:23:30.560 --> 01:23:31.060]  Yes.
[01:23:31.600 --> 01:23:34.480]  Well, and this is to get back to this one case,
[01:23:34.480 --> 01:23:37.440]  my friend, the chiropractor, is handling up in Rhode Island.
[01:23:37.440 --> 01:23:38.880]  And we're very good friends.
[01:23:38.880 --> 01:23:40.320]  We've known each other.
[01:23:40.320 --> 01:23:42.880]  He calls me probably two or three times a week,
[01:23:42.880 --> 01:23:43.840]  sends me documents.
[01:23:43.840 --> 01:23:44.720]  What do you think?
[01:23:44.720 --> 01:23:46.560]  You know, and I'll review them.
[01:23:46.560 --> 01:23:47.920]  And we kept joking around
[01:23:47.920 --> 01:23:49.440]  because he's getting experience now.
[01:23:49.440 --> 01:23:50.800]  You know, he doesn't need me much.
[01:23:51.760 --> 01:23:54.800]  And, but he went in the court with this guy.
[01:23:54.800 --> 01:23:56.400]  And, you know, the guy got up and he said,
[01:23:57.200 --> 01:23:59.120]  we're having trouble following the paper trail.
[01:23:59.120 --> 01:23:59.680]  Okay.
[01:23:59.680 --> 01:24:01.120]  I said, you should have jumped up and said,
[01:24:01.120 --> 01:24:02.400]  Your Honor, you know,
[01:24:02.400 --> 01:24:04.400]  if the lawyer of the council is going to admit guilt,
[01:24:05.360 --> 01:24:09.200]  they're admitting that they don't have the systems in place
[01:24:09.200 --> 01:24:11.360]  to prevent errors, you know,
[01:24:11.360 --> 01:24:13.120]  and just embarrassed the hell out of them.
[01:24:13.120 --> 01:24:13.520]  All right.
[01:24:13.520 --> 01:24:18.080]  Anyway, he didn't do that.
[01:24:18.080 --> 01:24:22.320]  He was sleeping or maybe wasn't educated enough to do that.
[01:24:22.320 --> 01:24:23.680]  If I had been there, I'd have done it.
[01:24:23.680 --> 01:24:25.200]  But that's because I've been doing this
[01:24:25.200 --> 01:24:26.720]  a little bit longer than him.
[01:24:26.720 --> 01:24:31.840]  But anyhow, on the way out the door,
[01:24:31.840 --> 01:24:33.120]  the lawyer says to him,
[01:24:35.520 --> 01:24:37.760]  can I get a copy of your credit report?
[01:24:37.760 --> 01:24:39.600]  And my guy didn't answer him.
[01:24:39.600 --> 01:24:40.800]  And the lawyer says to him,
[01:24:40.800 --> 01:24:41.360]  oh, it's okay.
[01:24:41.360 --> 01:24:41.840]  I'll pull it.
[01:24:45.840 --> 01:24:46.800]  The only problem is,
[01:24:46.800 --> 01:24:48.080]  is when you're in litigation,
[01:24:48.800 --> 01:24:50.320]  they can't pull your credit report.
[01:24:51.360 --> 01:24:52.800]  I'll say that one more time.
[01:24:52.800 --> 01:24:54.400]  When you're in litigation,
[01:24:54.400 --> 01:24:56.000]  they can't pull your credit report.
[01:24:56.720 --> 01:24:57.440]  So you say to me,
[01:24:57.440 --> 01:24:58.880]  well, how the heck do you know that?
[01:24:58.880 --> 01:25:04.000]  The 10th Circuit, Federal Court,
[01:25:04.000 --> 01:25:07.440]  10th Circuit Federal Court a couple years ago
[01:25:09.440 --> 01:25:10.960]  made case law on this stuff
[01:25:10.960 --> 01:25:12.720]  that says during litigation,
[01:25:12.720 --> 01:25:14.560]  you can't pull a credit report.
[01:25:16.880 --> 01:25:19.920]  So now my guy's got two more violations on him.
[01:25:22.480 --> 01:25:25.440]  So when he did his interrogatories to the lawyer,
[01:25:25.440 --> 01:25:28.560]  which is representing the client, this big bank,
[01:25:30.160 --> 01:25:32.000]  in one of the interrogatories,
[01:25:32.000 --> 01:25:34.960]  did you pull my credit report on such and such a date?
[01:25:34.960 --> 01:25:37.600]  And you had so-and-so pull the report.
[01:25:37.600 --> 01:25:38.720]  And who did they give it to?
[01:25:41.280 --> 01:25:43.360]  And they have admitted they pulled the report.
[01:25:45.520 --> 01:25:48.480]  And in the court in front of the judge on that one day,
[01:25:48.480 --> 01:25:50.560]  did you not stand up and say,
[01:25:51.040 --> 01:25:54.320]  you're having trouble finding the paperwork,
[01:25:54.320 --> 01:25:56.400]  the letter, and so on and so forth,
[01:25:57.440 --> 01:26:02.400]  do you not have these systems in place to prevent errors?
[01:26:05.040 --> 01:26:08.160]  So now he's got some ammunition.
[01:26:08.160 --> 01:26:09.200]  So the next step,
[01:26:09.200 --> 01:26:10.720]  once you're in litigation like this,
[01:26:10.720 --> 01:26:12.560]  you just can't go and amend the complaint.
[01:26:12.560 --> 01:26:15.920]  Both parties have to agree to amending of the complaint
[01:26:15.920 --> 01:26:17.360]  at this point.
[01:26:17.360 --> 01:26:21.920]  If this had happened prior to it being in the court,
[01:26:21.920 --> 01:26:25.200]  in other words, if they hadn't been served yet,
[01:26:25.200 --> 01:26:27.360]  you could go and amend the complaint on your own
[01:26:27.360 --> 01:26:29.040]  as the plaintiff with no problem.
[01:26:29.040 --> 01:26:31.200]  But once it's going through the litigation phase,
[01:26:31.200 --> 01:26:35.040]  both parties have to agree to amend the complaint.
[01:26:35.040 --> 01:26:37.520]  So I told my guy, so that's no problem.
[01:26:37.520 --> 01:26:39.040]  Just tell him what you're going to do
[01:26:40.080 --> 01:26:42.000]  is if you don't want to amend the complaint,
[01:26:42.000 --> 01:26:43.600]  maybe you don't even want to go there anymore.
[01:26:43.600 --> 01:26:45.680]  Maybe you're getting tired of doing this.
[01:26:47.120 --> 01:26:49.040]  How I'll do is I'll just write up a new complaint
[01:26:49.040 --> 01:26:51.200]  and come after you for pulling my credit report
[01:26:51.200 --> 01:26:56.200]  during litigation and not having the systems in place
[01:26:57.600 --> 01:26:58.480]  to prevent errors.
[01:26:58.480 --> 01:27:00.000]  I'll just file a new complaint against you
[01:27:00.000 --> 01:27:01.280]  and we'll start all over again.
[01:27:04.720 --> 01:27:06.480]  So the bull's in your court, pal.
[01:27:06.480 --> 01:27:08.000]  You tell me what you want to do.
[01:27:10.160 --> 01:27:11.120]  Now it's a big bank.
[01:27:11.120 --> 01:27:12.720]  They got money, okay?
[01:27:14.000 --> 01:27:17.360]  But common sense is going to tell you after a while,
[01:27:17.360 --> 01:27:18.160]  somebody is going to say,
[01:27:18.160 --> 01:27:20.400]  hey, we're just throwing good money after bad here.
[01:27:20.400 --> 01:27:22.240]  Why don't we just give this guy what he wants,
[01:27:23.040 --> 01:27:25.840]  make him an offer, get him to dismiss the case
[01:27:25.840 --> 01:27:26.560]  and go away.
[01:27:27.360 --> 01:27:29.920]  And this is basically what happens with this stuff.
[01:27:29.920 --> 01:27:32.000]  It becomes so costly, it's ridiculous.
[01:27:32.640 --> 01:27:34.880]  They're trying to collect, you know,
[01:27:34.880 --> 01:27:36.800]  this girl I was telling you about,
[01:27:36.800 --> 01:27:38.800]  young lady, she's not a girl, she's 35 years old,
[01:27:38.800 --> 01:27:42.560]  but they're trying to collect $262
[01:27:43.280 --> 01:27:45.760]  and she's tried for a year to get rid of these guys.
[01:27:46.560 --> 01:27:48.560]  Finally, she learned this stuff from me.
[01:27:48.560 --> 01:27:51.040]  She's gone in federal court now and now they're crying
[01:27:51.040 --> 01:27:54.400]  and complaining and, you know, it's only $262.
[01:27:54.400 --> 01:27:56.880]  Hey, I didn't cause this problem, you did.
[01:27:57.520 --> 01:27:59.040]  What don't I understand?
[01:27:59.040 --> 01:28:00.480]  I asked you to validate.
[01:28:00.480 --> 01:28:02.320]  They didn't even respond to her.
[01:28:02.320 --> 01:28:04.480]  Okay, so now you're reporting erroneous
[01:28:04.480 --> 01:28:05.920]  and inaccurate information.
[01:28:05.920 --> 01:28:07.360]  What are you doing in my credit report?
[01:28:07.360 --> 01:28:08.560]  You're going with debt, what debt?
[01:28:10.800 --> 01:28:12.800]  I've gone around with lawyers on this.
[01:28:14.320 --> 01:28:16.400]  It's kind of funny because you kind of meet
[01:28:16.400 --> 01:28:19.280]  some of the same people when you go around.
[01:28:21.120 --> 01:28:25.280]  This collection agency that she's dealing with right now
[01:28:25.280 --> 01:28:29.040]  about four years ago appeared in my credit report
[01:28:29.040 --> 01:28:30.800]  for a $500 bill.
[01:28:30.800 --> 01:28:32.880]  I didn't know who it was, I didn't know what it was about.
[01:28:33.680 --> 01:28:35.600]  I sent out the validation letter to them.
[01:28:38.240 --> 01:28:39.040]  No response.
[01:28:39.600 --> 01:28:41.680]  Well, it started maybe in August
[01:28:41.680 --> 01:28:45.520]  and went through to the following April or May
[01:28:45.520 --> 01:28:46.800]  and I think it was April.
[01:28:51.040 --> 01:28:53.360]  I finally did notice of pending lawsuit
[01:28:53.360 --> 01:28:54.640]  because I'm a nice guy.
[01:28:54.640 --> 01:28:56.240]  You know, I always want to give people a break.
[01:28:56.240 --> 01:28:58.000]  You want to do the right thing, you know.
[01:28:58.000 --> 01:28:59.280]  Nobody wants to go into court.
[01:28:59.280 --> 01:29:00.720]  Nobody wants to do all the paper
[01:29:00.720 --> 01:29:02.240]  if you can work it out some other way.
[01:29:03.520 --> 01:29:05.360]  I sent them notice of pending lawsuit,
[01:29:05.360 --> 01:29:08.640]  this big collection company out of Niles, Illinois.
[01:29:08.640 --> 01:29:09.840]  I won't mention their name.
[01:29:12.240 --> 01:29:13.680]  Second largest in the country.
[01:29:13.680 --> 01:29:16.080]  They're now owned by Sallie Mae.
[01:29:17.040 --> 01:29:18.480]  The government now owns them.
[01:29:20.480 --> 01:29:21.680]  Well, I went up against the guy
[01:29:21.680 --> 01:29:23.680]  and I sent him the pending lawsuit.
[01:29:23.680 --> 01:29:26.560]  I get a phone call, message on my mentor's answering machine
[01:29:26.560 --> 01:29:28.080]  when I got home and it said,
[01:29:28.080 --> 01:29:30.880]  Mr. So-and-so, I'm the corporate attorney
[01:29:34.000 --> 01:29:35.120]  for this company.
[01:29:37.120 --> 01:29:39.200]  Okay, we'll hear what this message was
[01:29:39.200 --> 01:29:40.480]  when we get back on the other side.
[01:29:40.480 --> 01:29:42.320]  Again, I'm on the edge of my seat here,
[01:29:42.320 --> 01:29:43.680]  I'm on the edge of my seat here.
[01:29:43.680 --> 01:29:45.680]  This is great stuff.
[01:29:45.680 --> 01:29:46.960]  Great stuff, Mike.
[01:29:46.960 --> 01:29:49.280]  My favorite part about all of this is that
[01:29:49.280 --> 01:29:50.880]  it's similar strategy to ours.
[01:29:50.880 --> 01:29:52.320]  You never go to the mayor to the case.
[01:29:52.320 --> 01:29:55.360]  You just pin them on, nail them down on breaking the law.
[01:29:55.360 --> 01:29:56.000]  We'll be right back.
[01:29:59.760 --> 01:30:02.320]  Are you the plaintiff or defendant in a lawsuit?
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[01:30:12.640 --> 01:30:13.600]  step-by-step.
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[01:31:23.520 --> 01:31:24.400]  Okay, we're back
[01:31:24.400 --> 01:31:26.160]  with our very special guest, Mike Mears.
[01:31:26.800 --> 01:31:29.120]  And again, Mike, I love it, I love it.
[01:31:29.120 --> 01:31:34.000]  This is very similar strategy to what Randy and I
[01:31:34.000 --> 01:31:34.960]  and Eddie do,
[01:31:35.600 --> 01:31:36.480]  which is basically,
[01:31:36.480 --> 01:31:38.240]  we don't go to the mayor to the case.
[01:31:38.240 --> 01:31:40.160]  We just point out the fact that
[01:31:40.160 --> 01:31:43.520]  of every place where these guys are breaking the law.
[01:31:43.520 --> 01:31:45.440]  So, okay, I'm on the edge of my seat.
[01:31:45.440 --> 01:31:47.680]  You listen to the answering machine, the message,
[01:31:47.680 --> 01:31:50.400]  and there's a message from the corporate attorney.
[01:31:50.400 --> 01:31:51.920]  So what would the guy say?
[01:31:51.920 --> 01:31:54.240]  Well, he called up, he was nice as pie,
[01:31:54.240 --> 01:31:55.600]  butter wouldn't melt in his mouth,
[01:31:55.600 --> 01:31:57.200]  and this is a lawyer, you know.
[01:31:58.720 --> 01:32:02.400]  Hey, we got your notice of pending lawsuit type of thing
[01:32:02.400 --> 01:32:05.520]  and really like to resolve this.
[01:32:05.520 --> 01:32:06.640]  Can you get back with me?
[01:32:06.640 --> 01:32:08.320]  So I called him the next day.
[01:32:08.320 --> 01:32:09.520]  This was Tuesday.
[01:32:11.920 --> 01:32:16.560]  And it was the Tuesday before Easter.
[01:32:17.360 --> 01:32:18.160]  Okay.
[01:32:18.160 --> 01:32:22.800]  Okay, so I called him back, introduced himself.
[01:32:22.800 --> 01:32:25.600]  Oh, yes, we got your notice of pending lawsuit
[01:32:25.600 --> 01:32:26.480]  and blah, blah, blah, blah.
[01:32:28.400 --> 01:32:29.280]  What's this all about?
[01:32:29.280 --> 01:32:30.240]  And I explained it to him.
[01:32:30.240 --> 01:32:31.600]  Well, he said, that's funny.
[01:32:31.600 --> 01:32:34.720]  If I'm looking at my records here, my computer screen,
[01:32:34.720 --> 01:32:37.920]  and it says we notified the credit bureau
[01:32:37.920 --> 01:32:39.040]  to mark it in dispute.
[01:32:39.760 --> 01:32:41.520]  Yeah, well, they said they didn't.
[01:32:41.520 --> 01:32:43.280]  I got a letter from them that says that
[01:32:43.920 --> 01:32:45.360]  they're reporting it correctly.
[01:32:45.360 --> 01:32:48.160]  So somebody's not right here. All right.
[01:32:48.160 --> 01:32:50.480]  He says, well, we went back and forth for a couple minutes,
[01:32:50.480 --> 01:32:52.400]  nothing nasty or anything like that.
[01:32:52.400 --> 01:32:54.160]  He said, let me check it out and get back with you.
[01:32:55.440 --> 01:32:56.720]  I said, yeah, okay.
[01:32:56.720 --> 01:32:59.920]  Well, you know, when I send a notice of pending lawsuit out,
[01:33:00.640 --> 01:33:03.520]  I prepare the case, prepare the complaint.
[01:33:03.520 --> 01:33:06.560]  I attach a sheet to the front and 72 point type,
[01:33:06.560 --> 01:33:10.080]  you know, word 72 point that says notice of pending lawsuit.
[01:33:10.960 --> 01:33:13.200]  And then I just go back to the regular 12 point type
[01:33:13.200 --> 01:33:15.120]  at the bottom and say, you got 10 days
[01:33:15.120 --> 01:33:17.920]  to respond if I don't hear from you in 10 days,
[01:33:18.960 --> 01:33:20.480]  I'm going to file in federal court,
[01:33:21.200 --> 01:33:23.040]  cure or be sued.
[01:33:23.040 --> 01:33:23.920]  And I sign it.
[01:33:25.120 --> 01:33:26.160]  That's what he was looking at.
[01:33:27.600 --> 01:33:29.040]  So now he's called me up.
[01:33:29.040 --> 01:33:31.440]  The 10 days is approaching and I'll be a nice guy.
[01:33:31.440 --> 01:33:32.720]  Give an extra five days.
[01:33:32.720 --> 01:33:33.760]  He'll get back with me.
[01:33:34.480 --> 01:33:36.080]  So do you think he got back with me?
[01:33:38.880 --> 01:33:40.240]  You're just a little consumer.
[01:33:40.240 --> 01:33:41.200]  You don't mean nothing.
[01:33:42.720 --> 01:33:43.440]  They don't care.
[01:33:43.440 --> 01:33:44.880]  So what did Mike do?
[01:33:44.880 --> 01:33:46.080]  You know what Mike did.
[01:33:46.800 --> 01:33:49.520]  Mike went down to his friendly federal court,
[01:33:49.520 --> 01:33:52.560]  put up 350 bucks and filed the complaint.
[01:33:53.680 --> 01:33:57.280]  The court clerk in this case, in this district,
[01:33:58.400 --> 01:34:00.480]  serves it via certified mail.
[01:34:01.200 --> 01:34:03.920]  He prepared the envelopes and I won't go into all those details.
[01:34:03.920 --> 01:34:06.400]  Those are the real intricacies that you need to know.
[01:34:08.160 --> 01:34:09.280]  He gets served.
[01:34:10.320 --> 01:34:12.720]  I come home from work and here's a message on it.
[01:34:12.720 --> 01:34:15.520]  There's a message on the answering machine about
[01:34:17.680 --> 01:34:20.480]  that this time it was now five days before Easter.
[01:34:20.480 --> 01:34:22.800]  Before this, it was maybe two weeks before Easter.
[01:34:22.800 --> 01:34:26.720]  But five days before Easter, I call him back to Tuesday
[01:34:26.720 --> 01:34:29.840]  and he says, yeah, we got you notice of the pending lawsuit.
[01:34:29.840 --> 01:34:31.920]  You know, I remember you talked to me a couple of weeks ago.
[01:34:31.920 --> 01:34:32.960]  I said, yeah, I remember.
[01:34:34.720 --> 01:34:37.440]  Well, we've been served and we see that, you know,
[01:34:37.440 --> 01:34:38.560]  we've got to go into court.
[01:34:38.560 --> 01:34:40.400]  I'd really like to work this out with you.
[01:34:40.400 --> 01:34:43.040]  I says, okay, well, I'm listening.
[01:34:43.680 --> 01:34:48.640]  And he says, well, you know, what is it that you want?
[01:34:48.640 --> 01:34:50.160]  I says, well, I want you out of my life.
[01:34:50.160 --> 01:34:50.880]  That's what I want.
[01:34:51.440 --> 01:34:52.400]  This is that simple.
[01:34:53.200 --> 01:34:55.920]  I says, I want you to remove it from my credit report.
[01:34:55.920 --> 01:34:59.520]  I want a settlement agreement in writing black and white
[01:35:00.960 --> 01:35:02.800]  signed by both parties
[01:35:03.760 --> 01:35:06.640]  that you're never going to report this again now or in the future.
[01:35:06.640 --> 01:35:09.920]  You're not going to turn over to another debt collector attorney.
[01:35:09.920 --> 01:35:12.800]  And his words to me, as I was saying that, he says,
[01:35:12.800 --> 01:35:15.200]  so we're going to retire this thing, essentially.
[01:35:15.200 --> 01:35:16.720]  I said, yeah, that's a good word.
[01:35:17.520 --> 01:35:18.480]  We can do that.
[01:35:20.880 --> 01:35:23.120]  Now, he says, we can't resolve this.
[01:35:23.120 --> 01:35:26.160]  He says, I'm going to have to get an attorney where you live to respond.
[01:35:26.160 --> 01:35:30.080]  The response was due the Monday after Easter Sunday.
[01:35:30.960 --> 01:35:33.280]  I'm going to have to get an attorney to respond to this thing.
[01:35:33.280 --> 01:35:35.120]  And I'm thinking to myself, yeah, right.
[01:35:35.120 --> 01:35:40.880]  Tuesday before Easter, you're going to find an attorney here
[01:35:40.880 --> 01:35:43.680]  that's going to respond to this thing in time
[01:35:43.680 --> 01:35:48.480]  so you don't go into a default judgment on the 21st day, OK?
[01:35:48.480 --> 01:35:51.840]  Because I can assure you, folks, on the 20th day,
[01:35:51.840 --> 01:35:55.120]  I'm watching it on the internet because I have access to Pacer.
[01:35:55.600 --> 01:35:57.040]  And I can see all this stuff.
[01:35:57.040 --> 01:36:01.680]  If they're answering or not, the 21st day,
[01:36:01.680 --> 01:36:04.640]  guess who's down in that courtroom filing a default judgment.
[01:36:04.640 --> 01:36:06.400]  And you don't have to go before the judge.
[01:36:06.400 --> 01:36:09.680]  The clerk can issue the default judgment, OK?
[01:36:10.560 --> 01:36:15.280]  Anyhow, he says to me, OK, well, we've reached a settlement agreement.
[01:36:15.280 --> 01:36:17.520]  We got talking about the case a little bit.
[01:36:17.520 --> 01:36:20.800]  And he says, wow, he said a couple of things I didn't understand.
[01:36:20.800 --> 01:36:24.000]  I said, well, you have no permissible purpose to pull my credit report.
[01:36:25.760 --> 01:36:28.320]  He says, are you telling me I can't pull your credit report?
[01:36:28.320 --> 01:36:29.120]  I said, no.
[01:36:29.120 --> 01:36:30.720]  I said, you can do anything you want.
[01:36:30.720 --> 01:36:32.000]  I can't stop you.
[01:36:32.000 --> 01:36:34.880]  I can't stop you. You can do anything you want.
[01:36:37.040 --> 01:36:38.880]  But you've got to have a permissible purpose.
[01:36:38.880 --> 01:36:39.360]  And you don't.
[01:36:39.360 --> 01:36:41.040]  It's where you owe this alleged money.
[01:36:41.040 --> 01:36:44.720]  He says, you owe this card, this credit card, or whatever it was.
[01:36:46.640 --> 01:36:48.400]  I says, that's not what this is about.
[01:36:50.960 --> 01:36:53.120]  He says, it's not about the debt.
[01:36:53.120 --> 01:36:53.760]  I says, no.
[01:36:54.480 --> 01:36:58.880]  I says, I sent you a validation letter six months ago.
[01:36:58.880 --> 01:37:01.360]  They asked me to ask you to prove that I owe this thing.
[01:37:01.360 --> 01:37:02.560]  And you never responded.
[01:37:03.440 --> 01:37:05.040]  Yet you're in my credit report.
[01:37:05.040 --> 01:37:07.840]  So what is your permissible purpose to pull my credit report?
[01:37:11.200 --> 01:37:14.480]  Well, we got on that talk for about 10 minutes or so going back and forth.
[01:37:14.480 --> 01:37:16.320]  He says, wow, this is an interesting point.
[01:37:17.360 --> 01:37:20.960]  He says, I guess if we went to trial, we'd make some case law.
[01:37:20.960 --> 01:37:22.880]  And I'm thinking to myself, oh, brother.
[01:37:22.880 --> 01:37:26.000]  OK, there's already case law in the books about this stuff.
[01:37:26.000 --> 01:37:26.500]  OK.
[01:37:27.280 --> 01:37:30.720]  Anyway, long story short, the next thing he says to me is, OK,
[01:37:30.720 --> 01:37:32.800]  now you're going to dismiss this with prejudice, right?
[01:37:34.400 --> 01:37:35.200]  I says, yeah.
[01:37:35.200 --> 01:37:37.120]  I said, I'll dismiss it with prejudice, sir.
[01:37:37.680 --> 01:37:43.520]  When I get your check and it clears my bank, that was my exact response to him.
[01:37:43.520 --> 01:37:45.520]  Because I'm the plaintiff in this case.
[01:37:45.520 --> 01:37:48.160]  And I'm not going to put up with your BS, OK?
[01:37:51.360 --> 01:37:53.040]  That was my exact response.
[01:37:53.040 --> 01:37:54.320]  You're going to dismiss this case?
[01:37:54.320 --> 01:37:55.760]  We reached a settlement agreement?
[01:37:55.760 --> 01:37:56.320]  Yeah.
[01:37:56.320 --> 01:37:58.160]  When the check clears my bank.
[01:37:58.160 --> 01:38:07.280]  OK, folks, next day, DHL at my front door is the check for me to go away.
[01:38:10.400 --> 01:38:10.900]  Love it.
[01:38:12.480 --> 01:38:16.800]  OK, to pay me for my time to go away.
[01:38:16.800 --> 01:38:19.520]  Now, let me straighten you out on a couple of things here.
[01:38:19.520 --> 01:38:22.960]  Don't let all this stuff go to your head and think you're going to become a millionaire.
[01:38:22.960 --> 01:38:25.040]  You ain't going to become a millionaire, OK?
[01:38:25.040 --> 01:38:28.160]  But you can get reasonable costs.
[01:38:28.160 --> 01:38:30.560]  Your court costs can be reimbursed.
[01:38:32.000 --> 01:38:35.360]  They'll pay something most of the time just to have you go away.
[01:38:36.400 --> 01:38:38.640]  And if you're not unreasonable, you'll get a check.
[01:38:39.760 --> 01:38:44.000]  So, Mike, let me ask you, if you feel comfortable answering,
[01:38:44.000 --> 01:38:51.760]  what would be a reasonable settlement that you would ask for in a hypothetical case like this?
[01:38:51.760 --> 01:38:58.400]  Well, I've had them range anywhere from, you know, $1,000 to $10,000, $15,000, $20,000,
[01:38:58.400 --> 01:39:06.000]  depending on the seriousness of the case and how devoted you are on wanting to go to trial, OK?
[01:39:06.800 --> 01:39:08.000]  I'm not big on that.
[01:39:08.000 --> 01:39:09.520]  I don't want to spend my life.
[01:39:09.520 --> 01:39:10.800]  I have a full-time job.
[01:39:10.800 --> 01:39:12.720]  I don't do this full-time.
[01:39:12.720 --> 01:39:15.200]  I want to enjoy my life, OK?
[01:39:15.760 --> 01:39:19.920]  I don't want to spend all my time in a courtroom or chasing these guys.
[01:39:19.920 --> 01:39:21.360]  You don't spend a lot of time in the courtroom.
[01:39:21.360 --> 01:39:23.600]  But chasing these guys, OK?
[01:39:24.560 --> 01:39:27.200]  And nobody bothers me today.
[01:39:27.200 --> 01:39:30.720]  I get kind of a little bored because, you know, nobody's bothering me.
[01:39:30.720 --> 01:39:37.920]  But I don't tolerate a lot from the bureaus and from the credit card companies and so on and so forth.
[01:39:37.920 --> 01:39:40.160]  If you break the law and I catch it, you're in trouble.
[01:39:41.360 --> 01:39:44.800]  And, you know, we talked about your favorite song, you know,
[01:39:44.800 --> 01:39:52.560]  Bad Boys, Bad Boys, you know, from cops, and my interjection in that song is,
[01:39:52.560 --> 01:39:58.560]  bad boys, bad boys, what you going to do when I come for you, OK?
[01:40:00.960 --> 01:40:06.160]  So it's just very powerful stuff once you learn how to do it.
[01:40:06.160 --> 01:40:12.960]  It becomes so cost-efficient for them to do this stuff that, you know,
[01:40:12.960 --> 01:40:15.040]  they've got to pay you a couple of thousand dollars to go away.
[01:40:15.040 --> 01:40:20.560]  They have to pay some attorney fifteen or twenty thousand dollars to collect an alleged account
[01:40:20.560 --> 01:40:23.920]  that can't even be brought into the case because it's not part of the case.
[01:40:24.800 --> 01:40:26.480]  It's just easier to pay you to go away.
[01:40:27.280 --> 01:40:28.080]  And you know what?
[01:40:28.800 --> 01:40:34.240]  They can write that off their taxes, you know, so it's a business expense to them.
[01:40:34.240 --> 01:40:34.880]  What the heck?
[01:40:36.480 --> 01:40:39.840]  And, you know, we get into this stuff about loans and money.
[01:40:39.840 --> 01:40:44.720]  And this is another telephone call, you know, number one.
[01:40:46.160 --> 01:40:51.280]  And I used to talk to people about this stuff and I often said that, you know,
[01:40:51.280 --> 01:40:54.320]  these guys are right wing nuts or something like that.
[01:40:54.320 --> 01:40:55.280]  I don't know.
[01:40:55.280 --> 01:40:59.280]  But the more I've learned and the more I've heard and the stuff I've seen
[01:40:59.280 --> 01:41:02.720]  just convinces me that a lot of this stuff is so true is that
[01:41:02.720 --> 01:41:04.240]  they didn't loan you any money anyway.
[01:41:04.240 --> 01:41:09.440]  Yeah, they just monetize your signature.
[01:41:10.160 --> 01:41:15.120]  Yeah, and I mean, you know, I'm on my sixth home that I've owned
[01:41:15.120 --> 01:41:18.240]  and I just closed on the one I'm in right now just a little over a year ago.
[01:41:18.240 --> 01:41:24.240]  And I sat at the closing table and I signed the papers,
[01:41:24.240 --> 01:41:29.520]  but I didn't see any big pile of money go across the table to pay for the note,
[01:41:29.520 --> 01:41:34.560]  you know, I didn't see any money, any checks other than I brought a closing
[01:41:34.560 --> 01:41:36.720]  check with me for four or five thousand dollars.
[01:41:36.720 --> 01:41:38.160]  I remember that much.
[01:41:38.160 --> 01:41:39.360]  So where the heck's the money?
[01:41:41.360 --> 01:41:42.640]  Anyhow, that's another show.
[01:41:43.600 --> 01:41:47.280]  But anyhow, once you start racking up these violations,
[01:41:48.320 --> 01:41:51.200]  you can build your case very quickly, doesn't take long.
[01:41:52.560 --> 01:41:57.440]  The monthly updates to your credit report double and triple and quadruple
[01:41:57.440 --> 01:41:59.680]  the violations and what do you base that on?
[01:41:59.680 --> 01:42:01.440]  And I'll give you a real simple example.
[01:42:02.320 --> 01:42:03.440]  You're a bank robber.
[01:42:04.960 --> 01:42:05.920]  You're a bank robber.
[01:42:05.920 --> 01:42:08.880]  You go into a bank in May and you rob that bank,
[01:42:08.880 --> 01:42:11.120]  and then you go there in another bank in June,
[01:42:11.120 --> 01:42:15.680]  you rob that bank and then July you rob a third bank and you get caught.
[01:42:15.680 --> 01:42:18.160]  And the cops know you rob the ones in May and June,
[01:42:18.720 --> 01:42:22.960]  but the only charger with the charges were the one you did in July, right?
[01:42:22.960 --> 01:42:23.840]  I don't think so.
[01:42:23.840 --> 01:42:26.400]  Now, you broke the law.
[01:42:26.400 --> 01:42:31.200]  Every month they update that account and I can assure you they do that.
[01:42:31.200 --> 01:42:32.800]  Just go look at your credit reports.
[01:42:32.800 --> 01:42:36.640]  If you've got an active credit card, you go in there one month
[01:42:36.640 --> 01:42:38.880]  and it's got a credit line of four thousand dollars
[01:42:38.880 --> 01:42:40.240]  and you charge a hundred bucks.
[01:42:40.240 --> 01:42:43.840]  The next month it shows up, you got a hundred dollar charge on there.
[01:42:43.840 --> 01:42:47.120]  They're updating the account every month so they're lying
[01:42:47.120 --> 01:42:50.000]  and reporting erroneous and inaccurate information
[01:42:50.000 --> 01:42:52.800]  and failing to mark the account in dispute every time.
[01:42:52.800 --> 01:42:54.160]  And that's how you build your case.
[01:42:55.520 --> 01:43:00.480]  Now, Mike, are they, say you settle with these guys out of court,
[01:43:00.480 --> 01:43:05.600]  you know, either before or after you've actually filed a complaint,
[01:43:05.600 --> 01:43:11.440]  are they still liable for all these fines if you settle out of court?
[01:43:13.600 --> 01:43:17.200]  Once you reach a settlement agreement, generally in that settlement agreement,
[01:43:17.200 --> 01:43:20.480]  it will say that both parties are satisfied.
[01:43:20.480 --> 01:43:22.480]  Neither party is going to seek anything else.
[01:43:22.480 --> 01:43:28.320]  But if they broke the law and the government can fine them for that,
[01:43:28.320 --> 01:43:30.720]  then that's not really between you and them anymore.
[01:43:31.280 --> 01:43:31.920]  That's correct.
[01:43:31.920 --> 01:43:33.360]  You have nothing to do with that.
[01:43:33.360 --> 01:43:35.120]  Yeah, that's totally out of your hands.
[01:43:36.640 --> 01:43:39.600]  What the government does and what you do, two different things.
[01:43:39.600 --> 01:43:40.400]  Okay, yeah.
[01:43:40.400 --> 01:43:41.920]  All right, let's pick this up on the other side.
[01:43:41.920 --> 01:43:46.080]  I was mainly just wondering if they still end up having to pay these fines anyway.
[01:43:46.080 --> 01:43:46.580]  Right.
[01:43:47.200 --> 01:43:49.440]  Okay, we'll discuss that and more on the other side.
[01:43:50.000 --> 01:43:50.640]  Very good.
[01:43:50.640 --> 01:43:52.640]  This is the rule of law.
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[01:45:48.000 --> 01:45:57.680]  Okay, as we so surely shall, we read some more Route 1 music for you.
[01:45:58.720 --> 01:46:02.000]  Okay, and Mike, and what I'm going to do right now, listeners,
[01:46:02.800 --> 01:46:08.320]  I'm going to open the phone lines so people can start calling in and getting in the queue
[01:46:08.320 --> 01:46:11.600]  so that we'll start taking calls at the top of the hour.
[01:46:11.600 --> 01:46:15.200]  When we come back from the news break at the top of the hour,
[01:46:15.200 --> 01:46:18.800]  then we'll actually start taking your calls.
[01:46:18.800 --> 01:46:22.960]  But for now, just to give people a chance to call in and get in the queue,
[01:46:22.960 --> 01:46:28.400]  you're welcome to call in and get your spot in line here to ask Mike questions.
[01:46:28.400 --> 01:46:37.520]  So Mike, I guess concerning these fines, do you also make a criminal complaint
[01:46:37.520 --> 01:46:39.840]  to the government regarding this?
[01:46:39.840 --> 01:46:45.280]  Does the government ever go after these companies for these fines?
[01:46:47.280 --> 01:46:49.680]  Well, let me clarify a couple things.
[01:46:49.680 --> 01:46:51.280]  Now, I don't get into criminal complaints.
[01:46:51.840 --> 01:46:58.480]  The fair credit and the debt collection is straightly pointed at the consumer only.
[01:46:59.200 --> 01:47:03.600]  Okay, the ones that come after them, and if you look in the law under fair credit,
[01:47:03.600 --> 01:47:07.840]  you'll see the FTC is the one that enforces violations.
[01:47:07.840 --> 01:47:09.200]  Okay.
[01:47:09.200 --> 01:47:12.000]  And you don't make a complaint to the FTC?
[01:47:12.000 --> 01:47:14.080]  No, I don't because it's almost useless.
[01:47:15.360 --> 01:47:18.720]  There's, you know, 1,500 people complaining about the same thing.
[01:47:19.360 --> 01:47:21.360]  Most of the time, they don't even respond to you.
[01:47:22.720 --> 01:47:29.600]  Then why would these credit card companies and these debt collectors have such a fear
[01:47:29.600 --> 01:47:33.440]  when you start pointing out where they've broken the law so many times?
[01:47:33.440 --> 01:47:38.000]  Well, because they know they're only dealing with an individual, I think.
[01:47:38.000 --> 01:47:40.960]  And here's my theory behind that.
[01:47:40.960 --> 01:47:47.920]  If we get 100,000 people doing this stuff, somebody would wake up, okay?
[01:47:48.560 --> 01:47:55.040]  And number one, they would change the consumer laws and even make higher fines and violations
[01:47:56.160 --> 01:47:59.680]  and make it easier for the consumers to go after these guys.
[01:47:59.680 --> 01:48:05.360]  And number two, we would back up the federal courts so much that somebody up there's got
[01:48:05.360 --> 01:48:10.160]  to say, we need to change the laws, we need to do something, that these people don't need
[01:48:10.160 --> 01:48:12.800]  to be coming in here all the time to get the law enforced.
[01:48:13.600 --> 01:48:17.200]  But we haven't got 100,000 people yet doing this stuff.
[01:48:17.200 --> 01:48:21.440]  So you've never really seen, like, in any of these cases where the government actually
[01:48:21.440 --> 01:48:24.000]  goes after these credit card companies for the fines?
[01:48:24.000 --> 01:48:29.920]  Not to my knowledge, and I'm biting my tongue because I'm sure there's stuff out there,
[01:48:29.920 --> 01:48:31.920]  but to my knowledge, no.
[01:48:31.920 --> 01:48:33.120]  Okay, okay.
[01:48:33.120 --> 01:48:37.760]  But it's just the fact that you're pointing out all these violations and the fact that
[01:48:37.760 --> 01:48:45.120]  you are costing them so much money way beyond what they could ever possibly hope to collect
[01:48:45.120 --> 01:48:50.400]  that they're just like, look, this is getting too expensive, you nailed us, let's just get
[01:48:50.400 --> 01:48:53.600]  out of this, get, well, the getting is good, so to speak.
[01:48:53.600 --> 01:48:56.400]  Exactly, and here's the point.
[01:48:56.400 --> 01:48:59.040]  Again, let's go back and hypothetical number.
[01:48:59.040 --> 01:49:04.080]  I don't care if it's 50,000 or 20,000 or 100,000 that's involved, but hypothetically,
[01:49:04.080 --> 01:49:10.320]  let's say $5,000, you've racked up violations, you've got, again, hypothetically, $8,000
[01:49:10.320 --> 01:49:14.320]  in violations plus damage, and you go into court and you say, hey, I'm coming after you
[01:49:14.320 --> 01:49:17.760]  for $60,000 with damages and the violations.
[01:49:17.760 --> 01:49:27.120]  Okay, so now you've scheduled, you know, you've gone into discovery, the Rule 26F,
[01:49:27.120 --> 01:49:32.080]  Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, Rule 26F, you're going to trial, you've got to prepare,
[01:49:33.040 --> 01:49:37.200]  and generally the court has you do what they call, I call, a business plan.
[01:49:37.200 --> 01:49:40.640]  It's just two sheets of paper, it says, it asks how many interrogatories you're going
[01:49:40.640 --> 01:49:46.320]  to ask, you can ask 13, how many depositions you're going to take, and so on and so forth,
[01:49:46.320 --> 01:49:53.440]  and most of the time, the opposing counsel will prepare that for you, okay, and you review
[01:49:53.440 --> 01:49:57.360]  it, it's done back and forth by email, you're happy, they're happy, you sign it.
[01:49:58.240 --> 01:50:03.360]  Most of the time, the counsel, the legal counsel who has full access to pay, so will even upload
[01:50:03.360 --> 01:50:07.040]  it for you, so you still want to put your clothes on if you're sitting home at your
[01:50:07.040 --> 01:50:14.480]  computer screened with a cup of coffee, okay, but the court generally gives you 45 days
[01:50:14.480 --> 01:50:18.400]  to prepare, to prepare this business plan. This isn't like the local courts where you
[01:50:18.400 --> 01:50:27.040]  got to respond in 10 days or else, okay. Now, that lawyer's getting paid, and let's say
[01:50:28.240 --> 01:50:33.280]  you're trying to collect 60,000 in damages and violations, the lawyer's going to get paid 10
[01:50:33.280 --> 01:50:41.360]  or 15 or 20,000, let's see, that's 80,000. If you win the case, it's $80,000. And they're
[01:50:41.360 --> 01:50:47.440]  trying to collect 5,000. Does anybody see anything wrong with this picture, or is it
[01:50:47.440 --> 01:50:56.960]  just me, or am I messed up in my head? Yeah, this is, this is the whole, you know,
[01:50:56.960 --> 01:51:04.160]  it just becomes so costly to go there, you know, what are we doing? Okay. Now, don't get me wrong,
[01:51:04.880 --> 01:51:09.040]  if you're in a hole for a million bucks for some bank, they're going to fight you.
[01:51:09.040 --> 01:51:13.600]  It doesn't mean you're not going to win, but they're going to fight you. I've had the credit
[01:51:13.600 --> 01:51:19.920]  bureaus in federal court, they will fight you, they've got lots of money. I've been told by
[01:51:19.920 --> 01:51:26.080]  NAWCA attorneys, I don't know if anyone is familiar with that term, NAWCA, N-A-C-A, the National
[01:51:26.080 --> 01:51:31.680]  Association of Consumer Attorneys. Most of these guys are not in the bar association,
[01:51:32.160 --> 01:51:37.200]  they are not members of the bar, because they're consumer attorneys, and they enforce these laws,
[01:51:37.200 --> 01:51:43.040]  and that's how they get their brothers, or debt collector attorneys in the court. And you don't
[01:51:43.040 --> 01:51:47.200]  like to do that to your brother when you're going to the bar association meetings monthly, and
[01:51:47.760 --> 01:51:52.080]  playing pool, and going to lunch, you know, it's not a good thing to do, so they don't join the bar
[01:51:52.080 --> 01:52:01.360]  association. I have a very knowledgeable NAWCA attorney out of Louisiana, his name is David
[01:52:01.360 --> 01:52:11.920]  Schwak, S-Z-W-A-K, and Mr. Schwak is an excellent attorney on consumer law, excellent. I was fortunate
[01:52:11.920 --> 01:52:17.520]  to meet him, actually via telephone, from another NAWCA attorney who I've become good friends with.
[01:52:17.520 --> 01:52:23.680]  They went to a convention in Las Vegas, and this attorney mentioned my name to him, and
[01:52:23.680 --> 01:52:31.680]  the guy called me out of the blue. Now, what Mr. Schwak does, is he does class action suits
[01:52:31.680 --> 01:52:38.720]  against the credit bureaus, and the credit bureaus hate him with a passion, and I was able to learn
[01:52:38.720 --> 01:52:42.960]  a little from him about this stuff. He called me up out of the blue, introduced himself, and he
[01:52:42.960 --> 01:52:46.480]  said, I'm not going to take your case, Mike, because it's too small, but you know what I'm
[01:52:46.480 --> 01:52:53.840]  going to do? Is there anything I can do to help you, any guidance I can give you, just let me know?
[01:52:53.840 --> 01:52:59.680]  And I was flabbergasted, I almost fell out of the chair, okay? A week later, I get a call from
[01:52:59.680 --> 01:53:04.080]  his secretary, Mr. Schwak wanted me to call you to know if you need any help, and he had a very,
[01:53:04.080 --> 01:53:09.600]  very cordial, very helpful, and I learned a few things from this man about them not having the
[01:53:09.600 --> 01:53:16.000]  correct systems in place, about having antiquated computer systems in place, and oh yeah, if I
[01:53:16.000 --> 01:53:21.520]  had a way, Mike, when you do take that credit bureau into court, you've got to be for that jury,
[01:53:21.520 --> 01:53:26.000]  you know, the jury of the 12 people that don't have credit reports, and you've got a credit
[01:53:26.000 --> 01:53:32.560]  bureau in front of it, you're going to win, you're going to win. The only problem is, they're going
[01:53:32.560 --> 01:53:36.160]  to appeal it, and they're going to, because they've got the money to do it, and they're going to keep
[01:53:36.160 --> 01:53:40.880]  on appealing it until it gets up to the Supreme Court. You've got to ask yourself, do you want
[01:53:40.880 --> 01:53:47.680]  to spend the next six, seven years doing this stuff? And my answer is, no, I do not. I want
[01:53:47.680 --> 01:53:52.640]  to lead a normal life. I don't want to spend my life in courtrooms and front juries and arguing,
[01:53:52.640 --> 01:54:00.320]  okay? But I got that from a very profound expert, and oh by the way, and I'm not supporting anybody's
[01:54:00.320 --> 01:54:05.440]  movie, but there was a movie out a few years ago, and it is available, if you check that on the net,
[01:54:05.440 --> 01:54:12.880]  it's called Maxed Out, M-A-X-E-D, Maxed Out, that talks about debt collection, credit card companies,
[01:54:12.880 --> 01:54:26.080]  the downside, and Mr. Schwach is in that movie. He's in a section called special handling, he talked
[01:54:26.080 --> 01:54:32.880]  about that, and special handling by the credit bureaus. What is special handling? Well,
[01:54:32.880 --> 01:54:39.920]  people who are in special handling are like state senators, congressmen, the president, movie actors,
[01:54:39.920 --> 01:54:48.480]  anybody who gets a lot of publicity if the credit bureaus mess with them. Hmm, well, very interesting,
[01:54:48.480 --> 01:54:56.400]  when I went after the credit bureau I went after, I happened to call them one day because of
[01:54:56.400 --> 01:55:01.840]  something I found, and when I got the clerk on the phone, they normally ask you your social security
[01:55:01.840 --> 01:55:09.200]  number, and I gave that to the clerk, and her response to me was, oh wait a minute sir, I can't
[01:55:09.200 --> 01:55:14.240]  talk to you, I have to turn you over to special handling, and in the back of my mind I'm thinking
[01:55:14.240 --> 01:55:19.280]  you're doggone right, I am special, and that's because I had him in the federal court, so now
[01:55:19.280 --> 01:55:25.200]  I'm in special handling with that one credit bureau. I don't talk to clerks, I talk to management.
[01:55:25.200 --> 01:55:31.120]  Ask your question, Deborah. Oh yeah, I was just wondering, how do you work it so that
[01:55:32.560 --> 01:55:39.440]  you don't get in a situation where, like what you were describing, you're spending six, seven years
[01:55:39.440 --> 01:55:43.520]  on something like this, and in front of juries, and arguing, and all the way up to the Supreme
[01:55:43.520 --> 01:55:48.320]  Court and stuff, how do you, I mean in some of these other cases you're describing, it sounds
[01:55:48.320 --> 01:55:52.080]  like they back down pretty easily, but now you're saying like with the credit bureau,
[01:55:52.080 --> 01:55:56.480]  it sounds like they back down pretty easily, but now you're saying like with the credit agencies,
[01:55:56.480 --> 01:56:01.520]  the credit bureaus, they don't back down so easily. Is that correct? It's because I'm a
[01:56:01.520 --> 01:56:07.200]  gauntlet for punishment at times. When I did this, this was the first credit bureau, and I'm not
[01:56:07.200 --> 01:56:11.440]  mentioning their names because a lot of these settlement agreements, there's confidentiality
[01:56:11.440 --> 01:56:16.880]  clauses. That's okay, that's okay. Okay, you know, confidentiality clause means, you know,
[01:56:16.880 --> 01:56:21.680]  the first one I was telling you about, the Mexican taxes, you know what the lawyer told me when we're
[01:56:21.680 --> 01:56:28.640]  talking about the confidentiality clause, his words to me were, we don't want to appear in
[01:56:28.640 --> 01:56:36.320]  tomorrow's newspaper that a pro se beach bum beats attorney. Of course not, that would make me look
[01:56:36.320 --> 01:56:44.560]  terrible. Okay, so yeah, this is interesting stuff, but when I was after the bureau, they offered me
[01:56:44.560 --> 01:56:50.800]  settlement agreements several times. I went into depositions with them. Now, if you're not familiar
[01:56:50.800 --> 01:56:56.320]  with what a deposition is, that's where you're questioned by the opposite counsel, in this case,
[01:56:56.320 --> 01:57:02.480]  the defendant's lawyer. You're sworn in under penalty of perjury in front of an older republic,
[01:57:02.480 --> 01:57:09.760]  and they get to ask you questions. Well, the day that happened, they flew the attorney in from Texas
[01:57:09.760 --> 01:57:14.800]  to Alabama, where I was living at the time, to depose me. And of course, they wanted to meet in
[01:57:14.800 --> 01:57:18.640]  their local lawyer's office. I said, yeah, right, we're going to meet in the library, and that's
[01:57:18.640 --> 01:57:26.000]  where we met. So it was me, him, and the stenographer. And of course, this was the stenographer
[01:57:26.000 --> 01:57:30.480]  they were paying for, because they wanted to do the deposition. Got into the room, we're sitting
[01:57:30.480 --> 01:57:36.960]  there, and he looks at me from across the table, and he says, I'm willing to offer you right now
[01:57:36.960 --> 01:57:42.000]  X amount of dollars to stop this, and we'll fix your credit report the way you want it,
[01:57:42.000 --> 01:57:50.240]  and you won't have to do the interrogatories. And my response to him was, you know what? I don't
[01:57:50.240 --> 01:57:55.760]  know if that's a good number. I'd have to talk to my colleagues about it. Let's proceed, because
[01:57:56.480 --> 01:58:00.720]  I wanted to learn what happened in the deposition. What are they going to ask you?
[01:58:02.240 --> 01:58:07.120]  You did it just for educational purposes. Exactly. Did you end up getting a bigger
[01:58:07.120 --> 01:58:17.040]  settlement later on down the line? Yes. You're great. And again, this is not a money-making
[01:58:17.040 --> 01:58:23.120]  venture here. This is about getting paid for damages. Right, exactly. This is about kicking
[01:58:23.120 --> 01:58:29.280]  behind taking names. Yes, it's about you've been damaged, and these guys are rogues, they're
[01:58:29.280 --> 01:58:33.920]  thugsters, they're thieves, they're banksters, and they've been ripping people off and ruining
[01:58:33.920 --> 01:58:41.840]  people's lives for too long, and the buck stops here, literally. Yeah, you know, the point is,
[01:58:41.840 --> 01:58:46.560]  and I'm going to tell you, when I did the deposition, I wanted to learn what was going on,
[01:58:46.560 --> 01:58:50.960]  and I'm going to tell you that deposition was six hours long. Oh my goodness. Okay, listen,
[01:58:50.960 --> 01:58:54.400]  hold that thought. We're going to break. We'll be right back on the other side,
[01:58:54.400 --> 01:59:01.440]  and we'll take your calls. Jim and Jessica. Activism, education, celebration, looking for
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