[00:34.440 --> 00:39.920]  to a year-long renewable ceasefire in Gaza if Israel withdraws its forces and reopens
[00:39.920 --> 00:45.080]  the border crossings, which have long remained closed. Israel insisted Thursday it would
[00:45.080 --> 00:51.320]  never agree to a temporary ceasefire. In Gaza, an Israeli tank shell hit the crowded
[00:51.320 --> 00:56.920]  al-Quds hospital, setting it on fire. Desperate war wounded patients struggled to escape.
[00:56.920 --> 01:06.240]  40 medical personnel were trapped by the fire that was caused by a white phosphorus shell.
[01:06.240 --> 01:11.640]  The press freedom organization Reporters Without Borders has called on the Israeli military
[01:11.640 --> 01:17.600]  to explain how a 16-story building in Gaza City housing several news organizations was
[01:17.600 --> 01:23.920]  hit by high-explosive shells Thursday. An Abu Dhabi TV journalist and a Reuters cameraman
[01:23.920 --> 01:29.840]  were injured in the blast that shook the Al-Sharouk Tower. Reuters, one of the building's tenants,
[01:29.840 --> 01:34.600]  said an Israeli army spokesman contacted the news agency's Jerusalem bureau shortly before
[01:34.600 --> 01:40.240]  the explosion to verify the location of its Gaza bureau. Reuters had informed the Israeli
[01:40.240 --> 01:45.800]  army of the exact location at the start of the war and was assured by Israelis it would
[01:45.800 --> 01:50.680]  not be a target. Reporters Without Borders said that under international humanitarian
[01:50.680 --> 02:06.020]  law, news media must be given the same protection as civilians. Six days before George Bush
[02:06.020 --> 02:11.480]  leaves office, a Justice Department attorney told a federal judge Wednesday the White House
[02:11.480 --> 02:17.280]  has found 14 million missing emails. For nearly two years, the missing emails were the subject
[02:17.280 --> 02:23.000]  of lawsuits, congressional inquiries, and widespread speculation they had been destroyed.
[02:23.000 --> 02:27.840]  Helen Hong, a Justice Department attorney, said the White House spent $10 million to
[02:27.840 --> 02:33.160]  locate the emails. She said the emails would be transferred to the National Archives along
[02:33.160 --> 02:38.280]  with 300 million other documents in accordance with the Presidential Records Act immediately
[02:38.280 --> 02:44.000]  after George Bush leaves office next Tuesday. Hong's disclosure was made hours after U.S.
[02:44.000 --> 02:49.120]  District Court Judge Henry Kennedy granted an emergency order to an historical research
[02:49.120 --> 02:54.340]  group, Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, that directed Bush administration
[02:54.340 --> 03:18.080]  officials to collect all emails sent or received between March 2003 and October 2005.
[03:24.340 --> 03:49.680]  When you were eight and you had bad traits, you'd go to school and learn the golden rules.
[03:49.680 --> 04:05.280]  So why are you acting like a bloody fool? If you get caught thinking of military coup- idea
[04:05.280 --> 04:31.400]  This is the Rule of Law, Randy Kelton and Deborah Stevens on RuleOfLawRadio.com.
[04:31.400 --> 04:36.520]  Friday evening, January 16, 2009.
[04:36.520 --> 04:44.960]  We are joined tonight by our very special guest, Tim Fry from Roberts and Roberts Brokerage.
[04:44.960 --> 04:49.840]  We're going to be discussing the metals market investments.
[04:49.840 --> 04:54.040]  And Tim, thank you so very much for joining us this evening.
[04:54.040 --> 04:55.040]  Thank you for having me tonight.
[04:55.040 --> 04:56.040]  My pleasure.
[04:56.040 --> 04:57.040]  Thank you.
[04:57.040 --> 05:05.040]  And Tim, can you please just basically give us a little bit of background on your business,
[05:05.040 --> 05:08.080]  how you got into this and the metals market today?
[05:08.080 --> 05:09.080]  Sure.
[05:09.080 --> 05:13.760]  I kind of came into the business first as a client.
[05:13.760 --> 05:21.760]  This brokerage firm was something I discovered here in Pensacola, which is my town now, several
[05:21.760 --> 05:25.380]  years back, about 2000, 2001.
[05:25.380 --> 05:29.760]  When I started investing in precious metals, I met a gentleman named Les Roberts, who began
[05:29.760 --> 05:35.080]  this brokerage firm back in 1977, and I became pretty much a constant customer.
[05:35.080 --> 05:39.800]  I came in as often as he would let me, and I spent what I could afford to put into precious
[05:39.800 --> 05:40.800]  metals.
[05:40.800 --> 05:46.120]  After having been sort of burned and beat up in the stock markets in some of the tech
[05:46.120 --> 05:54.360]  boom crash that occurred in the 1999-2000 timeframe, I was looking for someplace else
[05:54.360 --> 05:55.360]  to park my money.
[05:55.360 --> 06:01.680]  I started studying silver and gold and became an investor, and a couple years back, Les
[06:01.680 --> 06:05.640]  announced to me that he was going to retire, and if he couldn't find a broker that would
[06:05.640 --> 06:09.860]  take over the business, that he would pretty much dissolve the business, and I just could
[06:09.860 --> 06:15.840]  not imagine Pensacola in this region without Roberts and Roberts Brokerage, so I bought
[06:15.840 --> 06:17.840]  the firm.
[06:17.840 --> 06:20.320]  Wow.
[06:20.320 --> 06:23.160]  So how has that worked out for you since then?
[06:23.160 --> 06:27.120]  Well, it's been different.
[06:27.120 --> 06:28.480]  I've always worked for corporations.
[06:28.480 --> 06:34.880]  I spent 30 years in the cellular telephone business, and this was a big change for me.
[06:34.880 --> 06:41.200]  I had been an investor in stocks and an investor in metals, but had never really thought about
[06:41.200 --> 06:46.200]  the idea of even being a broker, so I had to crack the books and study.
[06:46.200 --> 06:48.120]  We are a full-service brokerage firm.
[06:48.120 --> 06:55.720]  We sell stocks and equities and mutual funds as well, but I'd never looked at it from the
[06:55.720 --> 06:59.320]  broker perspective, and that's not a very easy license to get for somebody that's never
[06:59.320 --> 07:03.520]  been in the business, so I studied, and in about four months' time, I passed my Series
[07:03.520 --> 07:08.120]  7 and bought the business in January.
[07:08.120 --> 07:13.320]  It's been about two years ago now.
[07:13.320 --> 07:20.840]  So you bought it in a rather turbulent time, so has it?
[07:20.840 --> 07:21.840]  Indeed.
[07:21.840 --> 07:22.840]  Yeah.
[07:22.840 --> 07:31.000]  We've seen ups and we've seen downs in the market in the precious metals price, but it's
[07:31.000 --> 07:32.000]  been exciting.
[07:32.000 --> 07:34.520]  It's been a lot of work, and we've seen a lot of growth in the business over the past
[07:34.520 --> 07:36.520]  couple of years.
[07:36.520 --> 07:43.240]  So how do you see the trends as far as the consumer, as far as your customer?
[07:43.240 --> 07:50.040]  Do you see them being more aware of the value of metals over paper or dollar-denominated
[07:50.040 --> 07:51.040]  assets?
[07:51.040 --> 07:52.040]  Well, yeah, absolutely.
[07:52.040 --> 07:57.800]  I mean, we're seeing continued support from clients that have been our clients for 20
[07:57.800 --> 08:02.760]  to 30 years, but we are also seeing an awful lot of new people and a new interest in the
[08:02.760 --> 08:04.840]  business.
[08:04.840 --> 08:12.760]  I think I've seen more checks drawn on big brokerage firms over the past year than this
[08:12.760 --> 08:19.040]  firm's probably seen in its prior lifetime.
[08:19.040 --> 08:25.240]  Morgan Stanley and Merrill Lynch and brokerage firm checks, where people have the ability
[08:25.240 --> 08:29.120]  to write checks on their brokerage account, we're seeing an awful lot of money come from
[08:29.120 --> 08:33.800]  other types of investments into gold and silver.
[08:33.800 --> 08:43.600]  Since the turmoil in September, have you seen any kind of major shifts and changes?
[08:43.600 --> 08:50.800]  We're definitely seeing a change in people's mindset and a lot more awareness of hard assets,
[08:50.800 --> 08:54.400]  silver and gold, and the benefits of investing in them.
[08:54.400 --> 09:00.640]  Tim, just for our listeners who may be hearing this show for the first time or who may not
[09:00.640 --> 09:06.280]  be familiar with investing in metals or what the advantages of that would be, could you
[09:06.280 --> 09:13.840]  please just give a brief explanation on why metals is a good investment and metals as
[09:13.840 --> 09:19.740]  far as hard commodities, not necessarily futures contracts and things, because it's a widely
[09:19.740 --> 09:29.440]  propagated myth that the metals market is volatile and it's a dangerous or hazardous
[09:29.440 --> 09:31.520]  route to go.
[09:31.520 --> 09:38.240]  I have learned, especially from Dr. Bill Veith, one of my good friends, that this is my understanding
[09:38.240 --> 09:44.240]  that the metals market is not actually volatile and the values of these metals never really
[09:44.240 --> 09:52.480]  change, but rather that it's the dollar or the currency that actually is what changes.
[09:52.480 --> 09:57.080]  Could you please speak to that and just tell our listeners what are the advantages to going
[09:57.080 --> 10:00.960]  into hard commodities like metals?
[10:00.960 --> 10:03.320]  Sure.
[10:03.320 --> 10:07.240]  One of the first things I tell clients that are brand new to metals is that you're probably
[10:07.240 --> 10:10.640]  not going to get rich investing in gold.
[10:10.640 --> 10:16.000]  Gold is a great place to park and secure your wealth.
[10:16.000 --> 10:20.240]  That may be a little strange coming from an investment broker, but in times like this,
[10:20.240 --> 10:25.600]  you would be happy to maintain the value of your investment after seeing a drop in the
[10:25.600 --> 10:29.800]  stock market like we've seen and other types of investment homes and property and things
[10:29.800 --> 10:31.500]  like that.
[10:31.500 --> 10:37.080]  I caution people that it is not a get-rich-quick scheme, and in fact, it does require some
[10:37.080 --> 10:42.640]  patience to really see the benefit of investing in gold and silver.
[10:42.640 --> 10:51.360]  The benefit is that, like you said, the value of gold and what gold will buy does not seem
[10:51.360 --> 10:53.800]  to change over the ages even.
[10:53.800 --> 10:59.040]  There's an old saw that, 5,000 years ago, a Roman citizen could outfit themselves in
[10:59.040 --> 11:04.240]  a fine man's clothing for the price of an ounce of gold, and today, you can still do
[11:04.240 --> 11:05.240]  the same thing.
[11:05.240 --> 11:11.480]  In fact, with some of the distress in the retail market, you can actually get a two-for-one.
[11:11.480 --> 11:16.200]  The other one that I use frequently is looking back at Revolutionary War times, the value
[11:16.200 --> 11:20.560]  of a rifle was about one ounce of gold, and today, you can buy a fine rifle for one ounce
[11:20.560 --> 11:22.860]  of gold.
[11:22.860 --> 11:25.080]  It does maintain its value.
[11:25.080 --> 11:31.720]  I did some calculations not long ago that, based on the value of a $20 Liberty or St.
[11:31.720 --> 11:36.160]  Godden's gold coin, a gold coin that your great-grandparents might have carried around
[11:36.160 --> 11:43.040]  in the early part of the 1900s, if they had intended to leave you what was then, given
[11:43.040 --> 11:46.760]  the inflation of the dollar or the loss of purchasing power of the dollar, the dollar
[11:46.760 --> 11:52.280]  is worth about two and a half cents right now of what it was in 1913, so in order to
[11:52.280 --> 11:56.160]  leave you the equivalent of a million dollars in today's terms, they would have only had
[11:56.160 --> 11:58.520]  to leave you $25,000.
[11:58.520 --> 12:03.760]  If they'd have done that in $20 Federal Reserve notes, that shoe box full of Federal Reserve
[12:03.760 --> 12:07.240]  notes today would be worth about $25,000.
[12:07.240 --> 12:11.120]  Maybe if there were some more interesting, better-conditioned notes, maybe a coin shop
[12:11.120 --> 12:14.680]  would be interested in buying a few of those from you for more than face value.
[12:14.680 --> 12:19.640]  If they'd left you $20 gold pieces, those coins run an average even in low grades of
[12:19.640 --> 12:25.800]  about $1,100 a coin, so they would have successfully left you over $1 million in value today.
[12:25.800 --> 12:30.720]  Yes, I have an interesting example.
[12:30.720 --> 12:38.640]  A friend of mine rented a house in Milford, Texas, and it had this tiny little garage,
[12:38.640 --> 12:43.800]  and there was a chest sitting in the garage, so he couldn't get his car in there, and Leon
[12:43.800 --> 12:45.760]  was a big boy.
[12:45.760 --> 12:52.400]  He went out there and picked up that chest, and it fell apart in his hands, and out of
[12:52.400 --> 12:57.560]  the inside of the chest, a wallet fell out and a bunch of coins.
[12:57.560 --> 13:04.320]  The most recent coin that fell out was 1893.
[13:04.320 --> 13:10.340]  Out of the wallet, when he picked up the wallet, it fell apart in his hands, and folded up
[13:10.340 --> 13:19.160]  in about a half-inch square was a note printed on one side, a note drawn on the treasury
[13:19.160 --> 13:27.040]  signed by the treasurer himself for $500 in gold.
[13:27.040 --> 13:28.880]  He took it to a coin shop.
[13:28.880 --> 13:39.040]  It was virtually worthless, but it was truly a note because it had an expiration date on
[13:39.040 --> 13:40.040]  it.
[13:40.040 --> 13:47.160]  It was like a printed dollar bill or a printed piece of currency, but because it was paper,
[13:47.160 --> 13:52.200]  it was virtually worthless other than its value as a relic.
[13:52.200 --> 13:53.200]  Exactly.
[13:53.200 --> 13:58.080]  But the coins, that was a different story.
[13:58.080 --> 14:08.000]  So Tim, the business that you're in is hard commodities like coins, bars.
[14:08.000 --> 14:13.440]  Give us a little background information on what you're brokering.
[14:13.440 --> 14:16.400]  Yeah, we're brokering physical metals.
[14:16.400 --> 14:21.120]  That's what we believe in.
[14:21.120 --> 14:27.640]  At times, I will recommend to some clients the GLDETF or the SLDETF when they're looking
[14:27.640 --> 14:28.640]  for a trade.
[14:28.640 --> 14:31.960]  If you're looking to get in and get out and take advantage of what you think might be
[14:31.960 --> 14:38.200]  some upward advantage in price, then by all means buy that for short term and sell it
[14:38.200 --> 14:41.600]  short term, but it is not like having the physical metal.
[14:41.600 --> 14:45.880]  We like the physical metal because it will never go to zero.
[14:45.880 --> 14:49.160]  It is your asset and your asset alone.
[14:49.160 --> 14:50.760]  There's no liability against it.
[14:50.760 --> 14:54.960]  There's no middleman between you and that physical commodity.
[14:54.960 --> 14:58.360]  You don't have to pay taxes on it.
[14:58.360 --> 15:00.800]  You only need to secure it.
[15:00.800 --> 15:02.120]  You only need to secure it.
[15:02.120 --> 15:03.120]  Exactly.
[15:03.120 --> 15:04.120]  You need to keep it safe.
[15:04.120 --> 15:09.840]  Yes, and you mentioned that it's not something you'll get rich with and that it's something
[15:09.840 --> 15:20.080]  that you buy for long term, but clearly there are times to speculate and times to hedge,
[15:20.080 --> 15:27.920]  but as we mentioned on the break, I was talking to Dr. Veith and he showed me a chart of the
[15:27.920 --> 15:34.960]  increase in the money supply for the last 70 years, and the increase in the money supply
[15:34.960 --> 15:41.600]  rose at about a five degree angle rather steadily, little variations up and down, but a steady
[15:41.600 --> 15:44.440]  rise on about a five degree angle.
[15:44.440 --> 15:51.960]  If you took the chart for the relative value of gold and silver to the dollar, the value
[15:51.960 --> 16:00.120]  of gold and silver, you could have superimposed those values onto that chart, except in March
[16:00.120 --> 16:06.200]  of this year, gold and silver shot up quite a bit, and then around September, they dropped
[16:06.200 --> 16:08.240]  back down.
[16:08.240 --> 16:12.720]  Everybody's saying, oh, gold and silver was $20, now it's down to 10.
[16:12.720 --> 16:23.080]  If you laid a ruler across that graph, $10 is precisely where it should be relative to
[16:23.080 --> 16:30.200]  the steady increase in the money supply, except on Dr. Veith's graph of the money supply.
[16:30.200 --> 16:37.920]  It rose at about a 5% grade until September, then it shot straight up.
[16:37.920 --> 16:40.520]  All right, listen, we're going to break.
[16:40.520 --> 16:45.160]  Sam, if you would please stay with us for one more segment, I want to talk about where
[16:45.160 --> 16:52.000]  the metals market is going today, and the legal ramifications of getting into investing
[16:52.000 --> 16:53.000]  in metals.
[16:53.000 --> 16:54.000]  We'll be right back.
[16:54.000 --> 16:55.000]  You bet.
[16:55.000 --> 17:02.960]  Are you looking for an investment that has no stock market risk, has a 100% track record
[17:02.960 --> 17:09.720]  of returning profits, is not affected by fluctuations in oil prices and interest rates, is publicly
[17:09.720 --> 17:14.720]  traded and SEC regulated, if this kind of peace of mind is what you have been looking
[17:14.720 --> 17:19.480]  for in an investment, then life settlements is the investment for you.
[17:19.480 --> 17:25.440]  Our annual rate of return has been 15.83% for the last 17 years.
[17:25.440 --> 17:29.200]  Our investments are insurance and banking commission regulated.
[17:29.200 --> 17:33.080]  Our returns are assured by the largest insurance companies.
[17:33.080 --> 17:39.120]  Even qualified retirement plans such as 401Ks and IRAs are eligible for transfer.
[17:39.120 --> 17:41.200]  We charge absolutely no commissions.
[17:41.200 --> 17:44.840]  100% of your investment goes to work for you.
[17:44.840 --> 17:54.360]  Please visit sleepwellinvestment.com or call Bill Shelbur at 817-975-2431.
[17:54.360 --> 18:23.320]  Sleepwellinvestment.com or call 817-975-2431.
[18:23.320 --> 18:30.240]  This is the Rule of Law, Randy Kelton and Deborah Stevens on ruleoflawradio.com.
[18:30.240 --> 18:35.320]  We are here with Tim Frye from Roberts and Roberts, one of our sponsors.
[18:35.320 --> 18:39.040]  Please check out Roberts and Roberts.
[18:39.040 --> 18:45.560]  Tim, if you could give out your website so that people can go and check it out.
[18:45.560 --> 18:51.200]  Yeah, probably the best advantage to our website is it has good contact information there,
[18:51.200 --> 18:57.640]  but it is www.rrbrokerageinc.com, inc.com.
[18:57.640 --> 19:04.680]  Excellent, and Randy, on the break we were discussing about why metals is such a good
[19:04.680 --> 19:12.000]  investment to hedge against inflation, whether or not it comes, so go ahead, Randy, please.
[19:12.000 --> 19:18.280]  I was looking at this graph since the beginning of the Federal Reserve, the supply of money,
[19:18.280 --> 19:26.360]  the amount of money the Federal Reserve put into the economy rose at on about a five degree
[19:26.360 --> 19:37.240]  angle, and the value of gold and silver was in lockstep with that rise, so taking that
[19:37.240 --> 19:41.680]  and then looking at what happened in September, for those people who think this bailout was
[19:41.680 --> 19:51.520]  not such a big deal, I forgot exactly the amounts, but the amount of money, of dollars
[19:51.520 --> 20:01.480]  injected into the economy in September caused that graph for the first time in the history
[20:01.480 --> 20:08.720]  of the Federal Reserve to go straight up, and it didn't just go straight up, it went
[20:08.720 --> 20:12.360]  up almost off the top of the graph.
[20:12.360 --> 20:19.760]  It's scary to see how much that went up, and if the value of gold and silver matches or
[20:19.760 --> 20:27.560]  tends to follow the amount of dollars in the treasury, and that makes sense because more
[20:27.560 --> 20:35.000]  dollars, it's like if you have a checking account and you write checks on money you
[20:35.000 --> 20:40.560]  don't have in your account, each one of the checks get worth less relative to the amount
[20:40.560 --> 20:47.360]  of money you started with, so the value of the gold and silver the government supposedly
[20:47.360 --> 20:56.080]  has was a dollar per dollar you reserve note, theoretically at the beginning, but as they
[20:56.080 --> 21:02.440]  added more dollars and didn't add more gold, the number of dollars rose, the value of gold
[21:02.440 --> 21:09.800]  and silver rose to match the number of dollars, so the value of the dollar, if you inverse
[21:09.800 --> 21:17.080]  the graph, the value of the dollar dropped inversely to the amount of dollars in the
[21:17.080 --> 21:18.080]  economy.
[21:18.080 --> 21:25.560]  Well, in September the graph shot straight up about five or six times the total amount
[21:25.560 --> 21:32.520]  put in since the beginning of the Federal Reserve, so we could expect the relative value
[21:32.520 --> 21:38.640]  of the dollar to do the same thing, but from talking to people around they're saying that
[21:38.640 --> 21:44.000]  the government is injecting gold and silver into the markets and other metals into the
[21:44.000 --> 21:48.080]  markets to hold the value of the dollar up.
[21:48.080 --> 21:55.720]  What they did was created a whole bunch of new dollars, now these new dollars appear
[21:55.720 --> 22:02.280]  to have the same value as the dollars that are in the market today, but as they filter
[22:02.280 --> 22:09.400]  into the market, the effect of all of these extra dollars is going to degrade their value.
[22:09.400 --> 22:17.120]  The government, if they keep the market relatively stable for a period of time, gets to spend
[22:17.120 --> 22:24.440]  all these dollars at current value, and those people who accept these dollars are going
[22:24.440 --> 22:31.880]  to find as the economy adjusts that the value of each one of those dollars goes down as
[22:31.880 --> 22:36.640]  sharply as the number of dollars in the economy went up.
[22:36.640 --> 22:42.920]  Yes, so Tim, how does this all affect the metals market?
[22:42.920 --> 22:49.040]  Well, those issued dollars are in fact tied up, they have not hit the economy.
[22:49.040 --> 22:52.880]  They're sitting in brokerage firms and an awful lot of them are stuffed into treasury
[22:52.880 --> 22:55.300]  bonds and that's why we see treasury bonds.
[22:55.300 --> 23:01.040]  Not long ago we saw the three month bill actually paying negative interest rates, meaning negative
[23:01.040 --> 23:05.880]  yields, so if you gave the government your money, tied it up for three months, you gave
[23:05.880 --> 23:11.080]  them $1,000 at the end of it when you went to sell that treasury note or were redeemed
[23:11.080 --> 23:17.360]  on that treasury note, you might only net $990, so you would actually have lost it.
[23:17.360 --> 23:22.000]  It's Uncle Sam's giant mattress and at times it has a hole in it and so you don't actually
[23:22.000 --> 23:29.680]  make back all of your money when people are buying bonds, buying treasuries and stuffing
[23:29.680 --> 23:30.680]  that money in there.
[23:30.680 --> 23:31.680]  So that's where they're putting it.
[23:31.680 --> 23:34.640]  They can't trust banks to hold it because they don't know which banks are solvent, which
[23:34.640 --> 23:38.320]  banks are going to be the chosen ones to get the bailouts and survive.
[23:38.320 --> 23:45.200]  They don't know, there are no good looking equities at this point, nothing just jumps
[23:45.200 --> 23:50.920]  out that's going to be a dead bank success, so they're unwilling to do that and they don't
[23:50.920 --> 23:53.800]  want to loan it in the commercial paper market because they don't know what companies are
[23:53.800 --> 23:55.440]  going to be able to pay that money back.
[23:55.440 --> 23:59.800]  So the best place for them to put it is in treasury bonds, all this currency, all this
[23:59.800 --> 24:03.800]  money and they're putting it in short term notes and that's why you're seeing the yields
[24:03.800 --> 24:04.840]  driven down.
[24:04.840 --> 24:08.080]  They don't have to pay a great rate in order to get people's money, in fact they can give
[24:08.080 --> 24:12.480]  them back less than they put in it, just as long as they get most of their money back.
[24:12.480 --> 24:18.520]  So as soon as we see the stock market bottom out, once they choose that it has now bottomed
[24:18.520 --> 24:22.920]  out and the money starts flowing back out of treasuries into the market and into investing
[24:22.920 --> 24:30.440]  again, we will see the tsunami of the dollars coming out and into circulation and that I
[24:30.440 --> 24:35.760]  believe will be when we start to see hyperinflation, when all these dollars actually do start to
[24:35.760 --> 24:37.200]  come out into the market.
[24:37.200 --> 24:42.840]  Getting money out there that is just going to sit is not a problem now, but it is certainly
[24:42.840 --> 24:48.840]  going to be one when these dollars start to be released and what metals will do, go ahead.
[24:48.840 --> 24:53.640]  Do you have any idea of when that may occur?
[24:53.640 --> 24:58.200]  Well I think it's interesting that the pressure seems to be in the shorter term notes, so
[24:58.200 --> 25:03.960]  three months, six months, people aren't piling in as hard on two year, three year treasuries
[25:03.960 --> 25:11.280]  are still paying a couple of points of yield, so I tend to think it's short term, very short
[25:11.280 --> 25:12.280]  term.
[25:12.280 --> 25:17.880]  Tim, could you please speak to the laws of supply and demand, because they seem to be
[25:17.880 --> 25:24.480]  thrown out the window here, from the research that I've done, it seems that there's a short
[25:24.480 --> 25:32.360]  physically in the silver market, at least for the little man trying to buy coins or
[25:32.360 --> 25:38.880]  not big, giant pounds and pounds of silver or whatever, and so even though there seems
[25:38.880 --> 25:45.720]  to be a high demand and a low supply, yet the price, the spot price, the so called spot
[25:45.720 --> 25:53.120]  price, it seems to be driven down all the time, can you please speak to this?
[25:53.120 --> 25:58.200]  Well as you said, the investor market is a small market, it is a very thinly traded market
[25:58.200 --> 26:03.760]  on investment silver, unfortunately the price of most commodities is set by the futures
[26:03.760 --> 26:08.480]  markets, and the futures markets are a paper game, they can create as much paper silver
[26:08.480 --> 26:13.400]  and paper gold as they would like to in the form of contracts, and 99% of the time there's
[26:13.400 --> 26:18.200]  never a delivery, more than 99% of the time, there's never an actual physical delivery
[26:18.200 --> 26:24.680]  of metals or for that matter, most commodities, the contracts expire worthless because it
[26:24.680 --> 26:29.360]  didn't hit the strike price I was looking for, or we had hit, you won, I'm just going
[26:29.360 --> 26:33.320]  to pay you out in cash because I really don't have gold and I really don't have silver,
[26:33.320 --> 26:37.120]  we're just going to pay you out in cash, so most of the time we do not see a settlement
[26:37.120 --> 26:40.620]  in physical, it's a paper market.
[26:40.620 --> 26:46.240]  That paper market however does drive spot price, and spot price is the large market,
[26:46.240 --> 26:50.880]  in the spot market, the true spot market on the floor of a true metals exchange where
[26:50.880 --> 26:57.440]  metals really do change hands, trades are done in 100 ounce bars of gold and it's done
[26:57.440 --> 27:02.920]  in 1,000 ounce bars of silver, well 1,000 ounce bar of silver is the size of a loaf
[27:02.920 --> 27:09.720]  of bread and weighs about 70 pounds, and it's going to cost $11,000 to $12,000 for an investor
[27:09.720 --> 27:14.200]  to buy one, and then you have to transport it and then you have to find a place to store
[27:14.200 --> 27:19.880]  it and all these things, and then if you ever sell it, you have to sell 1,000 ounces at
[27:19.880 --> 27:26.160]  a time, you might only need a few dollars, you'd have to sell 1,000 ounces.
[27:26.160 --> 27:29.400]  So when it comes to smaller pieces, when it comes to smaller pieces, that is where the
[27:29.400 --> 27:33.480]  high demand is at and that is why we see tremendous premiums, I mean we're seeing premiums of
[27:33.480 --> 27:38.200]  two to three, we've seen as high as four or five dollars for silver eagles, seen eagles
[27:38.200 --> 27:42.400]  when gold or when silver was trading at $10, I've seen silver American eagles selling
[27:42.400 --> 27:48.560]  on eBay for $22 and $25 a coin.
[27:48.560 --> 27:54.760]  Okay, so basically what you're saying and this is what I've learned too is that the
[27:54.760 --> 27:59.280]  laws of supply and demand just don't really apply to spot prices, spot price it seems
[27:59.280 --> 28:05.880]  to me is just a farce, it's completely controlled and manipulated by the futures market and
[28:05.880 --> 28:12.000]  actually I have looked up the algorithm, it's a very complex mathematical formula and there's
[28:12.000 --> 28:20.640]  all kinds of variables involved, hedging and all kinds of things that are very sophisticated
[28:20.640 --> 28:28.920]  investment terms that actually goes into determining what the spot price is and it seems to have
[28:28.920 --> 28:35.160]  very little to do with the actual laws of supply and demand on the real market when
[28:35.160 --> 28:38.640]  the rubber hits the road, is that correct?
[28:38.640 --> 28:44.920]  It still works to some extent when you're buying it by the truckload but when you're
[28:44.920 --> 28:49.320]  buying it in amounts that the average investor is looking for, I've never sold a hundred
[28:49.320 --> 28:54.920]  ounce bar of gold, I've sold them for clients but I've never had anybody come in here wanting
[28:54.920 --> 29:01.600]  a hundred ounce bar of gold or a thousand ounce bar of silver, it's just not a practical
[29:01.600 --> 29:03.480]  amount for the average investor.
[29:03.480 --> 29:04.480]  Right.
[29:04.480 --> 29:10.800]  So if you're buying in those amounts, spot does still have some credence with some fees
[29:10.800 --> 29:19.840]  attached to it, you can still really buy silver for $11.40 an ounce but just not in increments
[29:19.840 --> 29:22.520]  or in products that you would actually want to have.
[29:22.520 --> 29:23.520]  Right.
[29:23.520 --> 29:28.360]  This is not where you're buying silver that you put in your hand, this is where you're
[29:28.360 --> 29:34.320]  essentially trading ledger entries.
[29:34.320 --> 29:39.160]  Well there is in the futures contract or paper market, yes, where you can create as much
[29:39.160 --> 29:43.640]  silver as you would like on paper but where the rubber meets the road when you actually
[29:43.640 --> 29:48.440]  do have to deliver physical silver, it's generally done in thousand ounce bars for industrial
[29:48.440 --> 29:55.460]  purposes and bank to bank type, they don't trade it in gold American Eagles or silver
[29:55.460 --> 29:59.320]  American Eagles, they do it in thousand ounce bars of silver, they do it in hundred ounce
[29:59.320 --> 30:01.760]  bars of gold or even kilo bars of gold.
[30:01.760 --> 30:06.840]  And I take it that the silver doesn't actually move, just the ledger?
[30:06.840 --> 30:14.840]  All the time it doesn't, it just changes custody in a warehouse vault somewhere, yes, oftentimes
[30:14.840 --> 30:19.800]  with investors actually buying physical silver, it will just change hands, big investors,
[30:19.800 --> 30:24.760]  they do it just by changing who owns the silver that's contained in that box over there.
[30:24.760 --> 30:33.360]  So Tim, for potential clients that would approach you from listening to this show, you're not
[30:33.360 --> 30:39.920]  selling futures contracts, you're actually selling physical possession of the metals,
[30:39.920 --> 30:41.920]  is that correct?
[30:41.920 --> 30:42.920]  That's correct.
[30:42.920 --> 30:51.520]  Okay, and could you please explain the legal issues surrounding reporting to the government
[30:51.520 --> 30:57.800]  because there was some mention of that in your ad about if necessary, why would it be
[30:57.800 --> 31:03.040]  necessary to report to the government and when would those cases be, what are the circumstances
[31:03.040 --> 31:05.560]  and could you please explain that?
[31:05.560 --> 31:10.920]  Right, the only time we would need to report the sale, meaning a client would purchase
[31:10.920 --> 31:16.120]  from us, what we would call a sale, the only time we would need to report that is if the
[31:16.120 --> 31:25.040]  client chose to purchase using cash or cash equivalents, meaning third party checks, bank
[31:25.040 --> 31:31.040]  checks made out to cash, money orders, certain instruments or actual cash.
[31:31.040 --> 31:36.720]  So if their transaction exceeded $10,000, which is the cash reporting transaction, cash
[31:36.720 --> 31:42.840]  transaction reporting limit, then we would need to fill out the CTR or cash transaction
[31:42.840 --> 31:44.760]  report and send that off.
[31:44.760 --> 31:49.040]  We don't do very good at filling out forms.
[31:49.040 --> 31:51.840]  It's not something we do well, is government reporting.
[31:51.840 --> 31:54.400]  I choose not to do those types of transactions.
[31:54.400 --> 31:55.720]  You can spend any amount you want to.
[31:55.720 --> 31:57.000]  You can write me a check.
[31:57.000 --> 32:03.000]  You can send me a bank check off on your account from your bank issued by you to me and I can
[32:03.000 --> 32:04.000]  take any amount for that.
[32:04.000 --> 32:06.120]  I can do any amount in a wire transfer.
[32:06.120 --> 32:11.480]  We just won't do a cash transaction that exceeds $10,000 or any transaction that exceeds $10,000
[32:11.480 --> 32:12.920]  that involves any amount of cash.
[32:12.920 --> 32:16.360]  It's the only time we'd have to do a report when you buy.
[32:16.360 --> 32:22.720]  When you sell items, if you sell certain amounts of certain items, then it would trigger the
[32:22.720 --> 32:27.320]  need for us to complete a 1099 form, which is simply a tax form that shows that you may
[32:27.320 --> 32:33.280]  have had a gain in an item that you sold or a group of items that you sold to us.
[32:33.280 --> 32:36.720]  And the list is very limited.
[32:36.720 --> 32:47.360]  I think we did thousands of transactions in 2007 and I think we mailed out 16 1099 forms.
[32:47.360 --> 32:51.400]  But things like if you sell a thousand ounce bar, that bar that we were talking about that
[32:51.400 --> 32:56.520]  is generally used for industrial use or for trading between banks or large investors,
[32:56.520 --> 32:59.240]  that would be an item that would trigger a transaction report.
[32:59.240 --> 33:02.920]  A hundred ounce bar of gold would do that.
[33:02.920 --> 33:06.560]  A hundred gold American Eagles would not need to be reported.
[33:06.560 --> 33:11.680]  It's not on the list of items that would need to be reported.
[33:11.680 --> 33:14.520]  So there's very, very little reporting that needs to be done.
[33:14.520 --> 33:22.080]  So let me get this straight, buying a solid brick or bar of gold that weighs a hundred
[33:22.080 --> 33:28.400]  ounces triggers the need to report to the government the transaction.
[33:28.400 --> 33:41.040]  But if you buy the same amount in pieces as coins, you don't need to report to the government?
[33:41.040 --> 33:46.040]  Never when you purchase do you have to fill out any sort of government reporting.
[33:46.040 --> 33:47.040]  Okay.
[33:47.040 --> 33:48.760]  Only when you sell.
[33:48.760 --> 33:52.920]  There's never a need unless it triggers a cash transaction report.
[33:52.920 --> 34:00.720]  And you know, I don't do those reports because I just don't do those deals.
[34:00.720 --> 34:04.320]  When you sell, if you ever have to sell your items, if you sell a hundred ounce bar of
[34:04.320 --> 34:05.960]  gold, yes, I would have to do a 1099.
[34:05.960 --> 34:09.120]  If you sell a thousand ounce bar of silver, I would have to do a 1099.
[34:09.120 --> 34:15.440]  But if you sold, okay, if you sold a thousand ounce bar of gold, you would have to report.
[34:15.440 --> 34:22.040]  But if you sold a thousand one ounce pieces as coins, you wouldn't have to report?
[34:22.040 --> 34:23.040]  No.
[34:23.040 --> 34:24.040]  Not gold American eagles.
[34:24.040 --> 34:29.080]  I would have to report a transaction that involved 25 or more Krugerrands, Maple Leaves,
[34:29.080 --> 34:30.080]  or Anzas.
[34:30.080 --> 34:34.600]  Because essentially those are not currency.
[34:34.600 --> 34:38.880]  The gold and the eagles are very...
[34:38.880 --> 34:44.880]  The reporting requirements were determined based on what was at the time was a commodity.
[34:44.880 --> 34:48.160]  You could do a commodity futures contract actually in Maple Leaves or Krugerrands or
[34:48.160 --> 34:50.760]  Mexican Anzas way back when.
[34:50.760 --> 34:55.480]  I mean, those items appeared on the market before the gold American eagle.
[34:55.480 --> 34:59.280]  The gold American eagle is just not on the list, so there's no need to report a transaction
[34:59.280 --> 35:07.960]  involving any amount, the sale by a client to me of any amount of gold American eagles.
[35:07.960 --> 35:10.360]  What if they were just ships of gold?
[35:10.360 --> 35:17.840]  What if they were just one ounce chunks and not imprinted or any coined whatsoever?
[35:17.840 --> 35:18.840]  Any coinage whatsoever?
[35:18.840 --> 35:19.840]  Not on the list.
[35:19.840 --> 35:20.840]  Okay.
[35:20.840 --> 35:24.720]  Chinese pandas are not on the list.
[35:24.720 --> 35:30.040]  Australian kangaroos are not on the list.
[35:30.040 --> 35:33.440]  Silver American eagles are not on the list.
[35:33.440 --> 35:38.640]  The only silver coins, in fact, that you would have to report a client selling to me would
[35:38.640 --> 35:45.840]  be more than $1,000 in the old US 90% coins, the 1964 and prior coins.
[35:45.840 --> 35:51.520]  If you sold $1,000 face value of those, you sold me $2,500.
[35:51.520 --> 35:59.160]  I'd have to report that in a 1099 to the IRS.
[35:59.160 --> 36:03.440]  That doesn't mean when you sell those gold American eagles, it does not, in the IRS's
[36:03.440 --> 36:06.280]  opinion, eliminate the need for you to report that.
[36:06.280 --> 36:08.720]  It just means I don't have to do it for you.
[36:08.720 --> 36:09.720]  Right.
[36:09.720 --> 36:10.720]  Right.
[36:10.720 --> 36:16.400]  They still expect you to report it and capital gain, capital loss, or in some cases, some
[36:16.400 --> 36:18.640]  accountants handle it like a collectible.
[36:18.640 --> 36:22.560]  It doesn't eliminate your need to manage the tax event.
[36:22.560 --> 36:27.000]  If there is a taxable event, then you would still have to report that.
[36:27.000 --> 36:30.360]  You would still have to pay taxes if it was a taxable event.
[36:30.360 --> 36:31.360]  Wow.
[36:31.360 --> 36:32.360]  Interesting.
[36:32.360 --> 36:33.360]  Okay.
[36:33.360 --> 36:35.960]  There's very little reporting.
[36:35.960 --> 36:41.880]  I know that some companies kind of make a big deal of if you buy this certain coin,
[36:41.880 --> 36:47.000]  there's no government reporting, but there's really no government reporting necessary in
[36:47.000 --> 36:49.000]  most transactions.
[36:49.000 --> 36:54.000]  Well, and that's as well as it should be.
[36:54.000 --> 36:58.440]  We should be able to have private contracts without having to report to the government
[36:58.440 --> 37:00.720]  everything we buy and sell.
[37:00.720 --> 37:09.800]  If I have a sum of money that I wish to invest, what portion should I invest... Say I have
[37:09.800 --> 37:17.000]  money that I want to invest for speculation and for long term.
[37:17.000 --> 37:20.320]  What portion would you... Well, my answer to that is whatever you don't
[37:20.320 --> 37:27.040]  want to see with or away in what is going to come to pass with the money in the world,
[37:27.040 --> 37:29.200]  actually, economic situation.
[37:29.200 --> 37:31.160]  Whatever you don't want to see with or away.
[37:31.160 --> 37:35.520]  If I want to... Whatever I want to speculate with, I set that aside.
[37:35.520 --> 37:42.520]  If I go to Vegas, I decide how much I'm going to use in the slots, the rest of it I would
[37:42.520 --> 37:46.840]  put in hard commodities, gold, silver.
[37:46.840 --> 37:47.840]  I think so.
[37:47.840 --> 37:48.840]  Yeah.
[37:48.840 --> 37:51.840]  Gold, silver, land, food, ammo.
[37:51.840 --> 37:52.840]  Yeah.
[37:52.840 --> 37:56.240]  Basically, he... Our founder's favorite expression is he calls
[37:56.240 --> 38:05.120]  it the 5 Gs, god, gold, guns, groceries, and girls, or for the gals, it's guys.
[38:05.120 --> 38:06.120]  Oh my goodness.
[38:06.120 --> 38:08.320]  You remind me of Michael Badnerich.
[38:08.320 --> 38:15.040]  He said there are three metals we should all keep, gold, silver, and land.
[38:15.040 --> 38:16.040]  And lead.
[38:16.040 --> 38:17.040]  Yes, indeed.
[38:17.040 --> 38:19.400]  I'm sure Dr. Bill Vieth will agree to that.
[38:19.400 --> 38:22.760]  Maybe Dr. Vieth will call in.
[38:22.760 --> 38:30.160]  Basically, and I agree, it sounds like paper, it's just going down.
[38:30.160 --> 38:32.440]  It is just going down.
[38:32.440 --> 38:34.200]  That's just the bottom line.
[38:34.200 --> 38:37.680]  It's the history of all fiat currencies.
[38:37.680 --> 38:42.200]  They will degrade to nothing.
[38:42.200 --> 38:50.120]  You better put your worth into something that is of hard commodities, and gold and silver
[38:50.120 --> 38:53.240]  is the obvious choice.
[38:53.240 --> 38:57.040]  And there's something I'd like to kind of... There's a bit in my head that I've been
[38:57.040 --> 38:59.720]  wanting to say.
[38:59.720 --> 39:06.200]  You said that gold and silver is not something to get rich at, but right now, if you take
[39:06.200 --> 39:14.920]  your dollar-denominated assets and put them into gold and silver, if what we absolutely
[39:14.920 --> 39:21.000]  expect to happen, the hyperinflation occurs, it's going to look like you're getting very
[39:21.000 --> 39:22.000]  rich.
[39:22.000 --> 39:25.360]  It's going to look like your assets are growing greatly.
[39:25.360 --> 39:33.600]  Yes, but as Bill would say, as Dr. Vieth would say, really, the value of gold and silver
[39:33.600 --> 39:34.600]  does not change.
[39:34.600 --> 39:37.360]  And Tim, you were speaking to this earlier.
[39:37.360 --> 39:42.760]  A one-ounce piece of gold would buy a tunic and a nice leather belt and a pair of leather
[39:42.760 --> 39:45.640]  shoes back in the day, 3,000 years ago.
[39:45.640 --> 39:46.640]  Same thing today.
[39:46.640 --> 39:50.880]  A one-ounce piece of gold will buy a nice suit with a silk tie and a nice pair of shoes.
[39:50.880 --> 39:54.360]  It's like the value of the metals do not change.
[39:54.360 --> 40:00.600]  It's the purchasing power of the paper currency is what changes.
[40:00.600 --> 40:02.900]  And so, you're not going to get... It's true.
[40:02.900 --> 40:09.120]  You're not going to get rich from investing in hard metals, but what is the point?
[40:09.120 --> 40:10.920]  Are you out to get rich?
[40:10.920 --> 40:14.360]  Are you out to earn interest on your investment?
[40:14.360 --> 40:21.640]  Or are you out to just protect the worth that you have because, I mean, I really don't see
[40:21.640 --> 40:29.120]  the point in continuing to propagate this fiat currency and investing in the paper market
[40:29.120 --> 40:34.840]  to try to get a return when all that does is just create more inflation.
[40:34.840 --> 40:36.280]  Well, exactly.
[40:36.280 --> 40:43.040]  I mean, you can do what they are doing... Pretty much, you can do what the planners of this
[40:43.040 --> 40:49.440]  economy are doing right now, and that's you maintain the value of what you have, and as
[40:49.440 --> 40:56.220]  the value of all assets decrease in value, as that value falls, you can then start to
[40:56.220 --> 41:03.200]  buy things because you still have that dollar that is still worth a dollar when the dollar
[41:03.200 --> 41:07.120]  in everybody's pocket has fallen to 20 cents, and maybe the value of their home, their car,
[41:07.120 --> 41:14.040]  their property, their business, you could still buy what you could buy with that original
[41:14.040 --> 41:17.160]  dollar invested in silver and gold.
[41:17.160 --> 41:21.320]  So you start to look like the rich guys, like the genius is the guy that can keep his head
[41:21.320 --> 41:23.040]  when everybody else is panicking.
[41:23.040 --> 41:27.040]  Yes, and I think this is all relative.
[41:27.040 --> 41:28.040]  It is.
[41:28.040 --> 41:34.800]  You have relatively the same amount of money, but everybody around you now is flat broke
[41:34.800 --> 41:40.320]  because the dollar turned into crap, and they are selling everything they have got at next
[41:40.320 --> 41:46.480]  to nothing, so while you may not have literally gotten wealthy, it will certainly look and
[41:46.480 --> 41:55.200]  feel like it, and when the economy stabilizes, you will still have those assets that you
[41:55.200 --> 42:01.200]  were able to purchase at a much reduced cost, you will still have those when they return
[42:01.200 --> 42:02.200]  to normal.
[42:02.200 --> 42:09.440]  As Thomas Jefferson said, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations
[42:09.440 --> 42:12.960]  that grew up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until the children
[42:12.960 --> 42:17.680]  wake up homeless on the continent, their fathers conquered, and it is that.
[42:17.680 --> 42:22.400]  They will have all the money, the value of all assets will fall, and they will buy them
[42:22.400 --> 42:24.200]  up for virtually nothing.
[42:24.200 --> 42:31.240]  If you maintain the purchasing power of your money by not keeping it in dollars or money,
[42:31.240 --> 42:35.560]  then you can also swoop in and take advantage and buy things.
[42:35.560 --> 42:38.000]  We need people to do that.
[42:38.000 --> 42:44.520]  We need ordinary people to be able to do that so that those who have engineered this crisis,
[42:44.520 --> 42:50.400]  who have bled all the value out of the system, now they are holding the value, they crash
[42:50.400 --> 42:56.560]  the system, and then they bring that value back to suck up everything that's left.
[42:56.560 --> 43:05.400]  We need some people who had a little foreknowledge and are able to distribute some of this wealth
[43:05.400 --> 43:10.040]  around so that it doesn't wind up in a few single hands.
[43:10.040 --> 43:12.160]  Yeah, absolutely.
[43:12.160 --> 43:13.160]  Absolutely.
[43:13.160 --> 43:15.160]  It should wind up in my hands.
[43:15.160 --> 43:16.160]  Oh, come on.
[43:16.160 --> 43:17.160]  That's right.
[43:17.160 --> 43:18.160]  It should be.
[43:18.160 --> 43:19.160]  I'll share it with you.
[43:19.160 --> 43:20.480]  Oh, for real.
[43:20.480 --> 43:21.960]  For my beer fund.
[43:21.960 --> 43:23.440]  Oh, for real.
[43:23.440 --> 43:25.160]  For real.
[43:25.160 --> 43:30.640]  Folks, invest gold and silver in Randy's beer fund.
[43:30.640 --> 43:35.160]  Don't send money, send silver.
[43:35.160 --> 43:37.160]  Yeah, okay.
[43:37.160 --> 43:45.600]  Well, you know, it's better because it's actually a real commodity.
[43:45.600 --> 43:48.880]  You know, you're not giving debt notes.
[43:48.880 --> 43:51.040]  You're not giving debt notes to people.
[43:51.040 --> 43:52.040]  I mean...
[43:52.040 --> 43:53.040]  Yes.
[43:53.040 --> 43:54.040]  All right, listen, we are...
[43:54.040 --> 43:57.640]  The graph on debt notes went straight up, the value's going straight down.
[43:57.640 --> 43:59.280]  Now we go back to the real thing.
[43:59.280 --> 44:01.200]  Okay, listen, we are going to break.
[44:01.200 --> 44:02.720]  Tim, if you would just...
[44:02.720 --> 44:05.240]  Could you hang on for just a couple more minutes into the other side?
[44:05.240 --> 44:06.240]  Sure.
[44:06.240 --> 44:07.240]  Okay, great.
[44:07.240 --> 44:12.720]  I'm trying to get Dr. Veith on the line as well to talk about fiat currencies and metals.
[44:12.720 --> 44:14.560]  This is the rule of law.
[44:14.560 --> 44:15.560]  Randy Kelton and Deborah Stevens.
[44:15.560 --> 44:16.560]  We'll be right back.
[44:16.560 --> 44:26.760]  Stock markets are taking hit after hit.
[44:26.760 --> 44:29.720]  Corrupt bankers are choking on subprime debt.
[44:29.720 --> 44:36.120]  The Fed is busy printing dollars, dollars, and more dollars to bail out Wall Street banks
[44:36.120 --> 44:37.840]  and the U.S. car industry.
[44:37.840 --> 44:43.400]  As investors scramble for safety in the metals in the face of a further devaluation of the
[44:43.400 --> 44:46.840]  dollar, the price of silver will only increase.
[44:46.840 --> 44:51.800]  Some of the world's leading financial analysts believe that silver is one of the world's
[44:51.800 --> 44:57.760]  most important commodities with unparalleled investment opportunity for the future.
[44:57.760 --> 45:05.080]  Now is the time to buy silver before it heads for $75 an ounce and the yellow metal roars
[45:05.080 --> 45:09.160]  back past $1,000 an ounce to new highs.
[45:09.160 --> 45:18.440]  Call Maximus Holdings now at 407-608-5430 to find out how you can turn your IRA and
[45:18.440 --> 45:23.760]  401K into a solid investment, silver, without any penalties for early withdrawal.
[45:23.760 --> 45:29.040]  Even if you don't have a retirement account yet, we have fantastic investment opportunities
[45:29.040 --> 45:30.200]  for you.
[45:30.200 --> 45:40.120]  Call Maximus Holdings at 407-608-5430 for more information.
[49:00.200 --> 49:29.160]  This is the Rule of Law, Randy Kelton and Deborah Stevens on Rule of Law Radio.
[49:30.800 --> 49:31.800]  Yes.
[49:31.800 --> 49:32.800]  Okay.
[49:32.800 --> 49:33.800]  That was a beep.
[49:33.800 --> 49:34.800]  Yes.
[49:34.800 --> 49:35.800]  We are back.
[49:35.800 --> 49:36.800]  Can you still hear me, Jim?
[49:36.800 --> 49:37.800]  Jim?
[49:37.800 --> 49:38.800]  Yes, I can hear you.
[49:38.800 --> 49:39.800]  Okay, good.
[49:39.800 --> 49:40.800]  I got a dead spot for a second.
[49:40.800 --> 49:43.800]  The beep brings us out, but we have to bring this back in.
[49:43.800 --> 49:44.800]  Okay, Randy.
[49:44.800 --> 49:45.800]  Randy, can you hear me?
[49:45.800 --> 49:46.800]  We shouldn't have went back online.
[49:46.800 --> 49:47.800]  Randy.
[49:47.800 --> 49:48.800]  Randy, can you hear me?
[49:48.800 --> 49:49.800]  Randy, can you hear Deborah?
[49:49.800 --> 49:50.800]  Randy, can you hear me?
[49:50.800 --> 49:51.800]  No, I cannot.
[49:51.800 --> 49:52.800]  I was calling you.
[49:52.800 --> 49:53.800]  Okay.
[49:53.800 --> 50:00.800]  Deborah, if you're there, I don't have you.
[50:00.800 --> 50:03.800]  Okay, hold on one moment.
[50:03.800 --> 50:10.800]  Listeners, hold on.
[50:10.800 --> 50:13.800]  She has really been working on this.
[50:13.800 --> 50:28.800]  She has been working on this for a long time.
[50:28.800 --> 50:47.800]  She has been working on this for a long time.
[50:47.800 --> 51:12.800]  She has been working on this for a long time.
[51:12.800 --> 51:40.800]  She has been working on this for a long time.
[51:40.800 --> 52:07.800]  She has been working on this for a long time.
[52:07.800 --> 52:34.800]  She has been working on this for a long time.
[52:34.800 --> 53:01.800]  She has been working on this for a long time.
[53:01.800 --> 53:28.800]  She has been working on this for a long time.
[53:28.800 --> 53:55.800]  She has been working on this for a long time.
[53:55.800 --> 54:20.800]  She has been working on this for a long time.
[54:20.800 --> 54:27.800]  This is the Rule of Law, Randy Kelton and Deborah Stevens on ruleoflawradio.com.
[54:27.800 --> 54:32.800]  Okay, sorry listeners, we have a bit of a problem with Randy's microphone.
[54:32.800 --> 54:34.800]  We are back though.
[54:34.800 --> 54:43.800]  And Tim, I wanted to ask you what your take is regarding the ratio of the price of silver
[54:43.800 --> 54:44.800]  and gold.
[54:44.800 --> 54:52.800]  Traditionally it has been somewhat between 13 or 15 to 1 and now apparently it is in
[54:52.800 --> 54:54.800]  the 70s, 70 to 1.
[54:54.800 --> 54:55.800]  What is your take on this?
[54:55.800 --> 54:57.800]  What does this mean?
[54:57.800 --> 54:59.800]  We are running about 75 to 1 right now.
[54:59.800 --> 55:09.800]  We have been up into the 80s and I have seen it down into the 50s in recent years.
[55:09.800 --> 55:15.800]  It seems like the last time historically I think what really threw it out of the filter
[55:15.800 --> 55:19.800]  was a lot of supply being uncovered in the U.S., honestly.
[55:19.800 --> 55:21.800]  There is a lot of talk about the silver to gold ratio.
[55:21.800 --> 55:25.800]  Now I think that we may never see 15 again.
[55:25.800 --> 55:28.800]  It is possible we will never see 15 again.
[55:28.800 --> 55:34.800]  But I do think it is 75 to 1 or those types of numbers that we are seeing as an extreme
[55:34.800 --> 55:35.800]  imbalance.
[55:35.800 --> 55:39.800]  What we see partly is manipulation in the market.
[55:39.800 --> 55:42.800]  Silver is used, consumed and thrown away.
[55:42.800 --> 55:47.800]  It requires a constant supply being brought to the table, if you will.
[55:47.800 --> 55:56.800]  It is in more interest, just like with oil, that the price for certain people be manipulated
[55:56.800 --> 55:57.800]  to some extent.
[55:57.800 --> 56:02.800]  The consumers of silver, the industrial consumers of silver like the low prices.
[56:02.800 --> 56:07.800]  That is part of what the paper game is all about and why we see incredible amount of
[56:07.800 --> 56:09.800]  shorting of supplies of silver.
[56:09.800 --> 56:14.800]  Contracts are put out all the time to sell silver, silver that does not exist other than
[56:14.800 --> 56:15.800]  on paper.
[56:15.800 --> 56:17.800]  We see that manipulation in silver.
[56:17.800 --> 56:22.800]  Now some things that in the near term might change that silver to gold ratio or bring
[56:22.800 --> 56:25.800]  a faster increase in the price of silver than we see in gold.
[56:25.800 --> 56:29.800]  As I said, silver is used, consumed and thrown away.
[56:29.800 --> 56:33.800]  About every bit of gold that has ever been mined out of the ground is still somewhere.
[56:33.800 --> 56:35.800]  If people go to great pains to recover it.
[56:35.800 --> 56:39.800]  This is the scrap jewelry things you see on television, the advertisements on television
[56:39.800 --> 56:44.800]  and radio and the Internet to cash in grandma's broken rings.
[56:44.800 --> 56:53.800]  It is cheap enough that there is no real effort made to recycle the silver that we use.
[56:53.800 --> 56:59.800]  What that has done is it has also diminished the excess supply of silver, about 90% of
[56:59.800 --> 57:03.800]  the stockpile in silver has disappeared over the past 16 years.
[57:03.800 --> 57:07.800]  We have 90% less available pool of silver to draw on.
[57:07.800 --> 57:13.800]  It is very important that we continue to bring silver to the market through mining.
[57:13.800 --> 57:18.800]  I think we will see that silver price change significantly as we see a decrease.
[57:18.800 --> 57:20.800]  We are seeing a decrease in base metal mining.
[57:20.800 --> 57:25.800]  Base metals are things like tin, lead, copper, aluminum, iron.
[57:25.800 --> 57:32.800]  80% of the silver supply, the new silver supply coming to market comes from mining base metals.
[57:32.800 --> 57:34.800]  We are seeing base metal miners.
[57:34.800 --> 57:38.800]  We just saw another zinc mining company go bankrupt last week.
[57:38.800 --> 57:45.800]  We are seeing these mining operations shut down because with what they call demand destruction,
[57:45.800 --> 57:48.800]  less need for base metals for industrial use.
[57:48.800 --> 57:49.800]  We are making fewer cars.
[57:49.800 --> 57:53.800]  We are going to see fewer people able to buy electronics and able to buy consumer goods
[57:53.800 --> 57:58.800]  and even things like pots and pans and bicycles and that sort of thing.
[57:58.800 --> 58:02.800]  We are going to see less demand for base metals, which means that that 80%,
[58:02.800 --> 58:06.800]  I don't know where that 80% of the silver that is coming on the market,
[58:06.800 --> 58:09.800]  new silver coming on the market, I don't know where that is going to come from.
[58:09.800 --> 58:14.800]  Only 20% or less of our silver comes from dedicated silver mines.
[58:14.800 --> 58:18.800]  We will have some demand destruction, but at the same time we are losing 80% of supply.
[58:18.800 --> 58:20.800]  We have eaten through 90% of the stockpile.
[58:20.800 --> 58:24.800]  I think it is going to make silver more and more scarce.
[58:24.800 --> 58:29.800]  That will probably drive the price up and we will see a return of a lower gold to silver ratio.
[58:29.800 --> 58:33.800]  That gold to silver ratio, since we really haven't explained it,
[58:33.800 --> 58:38.800]  it is the number of ounces of silver that you would need to buy one ounce of gold.
[58:38.800 --> 58:43.800]  When we did monetary policy in 1792, we followed what was pretty much historical in Europe,
[58:43.800 --> 58:45.800]  which was about a 15 to 1 ratio.
[58:45.800 --> 58:53.800]  In 1792, the Coinage Act indicates that it will be 15 grains of silver equivalent to one grain of gold.
[58:53.800 --> 59:00.800]  Today we are seeing on the open market you can buy, it requires 75 ounces of silver to buy one ounce of gold.
[59:00.800 --> 59:04.800]  What people do is they are buying their 75 ounces of silver,
[59:04.800 --> 59:08.800]  hoping that later on down the road they can maybe buy five or six ounces of gold.
[59:08.800 --> 59:10.800]  I think that may be a little exuberant.
[59:10.800 --> 59:15.800]  You might be looking at something in the low 40s, upper 30s.
[59:15.800 --> 59:19.800]  It would be, to me, a good time to trade your silver then for gold.
[59:19.800 --> 59:24.800]  You pick up three ounces of gold for what it would currently cost you to buy one ounce of gold
[59:24.800 --> 59:29.800]  for the same amount of investment in silver.
[59:29.800 --> 59:31.800]  That is my take on the ratio.
[59:31.800 --> 59:35.800]  I don't know if 15 to 1 will ever be something we see again.
[59:35.800 --> 59:41.800]  So you think that just the basic laws of supply and demand are eventually going to kick in
[59:41.800 --> 59:51.800]  and bring the price of silver back up to where it really should be as far as relation to gold?
[59:51.800 --> 59:58.800]  The whole silver to gold ratio really fell apart when we made the Western U.S. discoveries in silver.
[59:58.800 --> 01:00:11.800]  The Nevada Western Mountain State silver, my home state of Colorado, was a huge silver provider.
[01:00:11.800 --> 01:00:16.800]  They found great reserves of silver, which really lowered the value of silver
[01:00:16.800 --> 01:00:20.800]  because there was more brought to market.
[01:00:20.800 --> 01:00:33.800]  So with the relative difference between gold and silver, if you are convinced to invest in the hard commodities market
[01:00:33.800 --> 01:00:46.800]  at this moment in time, in your opinion, which would be the one, the metal that would be the most likely to accrue the most quickly?
[01:00:46.800 --> 01:00:50.800]  Well, gold, as we've talked about, will simply maintain its value.
[01:00:50.800 --> 01:00:58.800]  I believe speculatively if you want to invest to try to amplify your gain that silver is probably a much better deal
[01:00:58.800 --> 01:01:04.800]  because I do believe that we will see a return of silver back to the upper 30s, low 40s,
[01:01:04.800 --> 01:01:10.800]  which is effectively you're nearly doubling your money compared to gold.
[01:01:10.800 --> 01:01:21.800]  I can't help but think that between a lessening supply and great consumption and complete loss,
[01:01:21.800 --> 01:01:25.800]  it's going to be difficult to get all that silver out of these landfills when we're done.
[01:01:25.800 --> 01:01:30.800]  I'm looking at my laptop computer and I know that in there there's a few grams of gold,
[01:01:30.800 --> 01:01:33.800]  which somebody is going to make great effort to get all of that gold out of there,
[01:01:33.800 --> 01:01:42.800]  and they're going to discard silver is probably 10 or 15 or even 20 times more plentiful in this laptop than is gold,
[01:01:42.800 --> 01:01:45.800]  but they're going to throw all that silver away and they're going to recover the gold.
[01:01:45.800 --> 01:01:52.800]  They're going to get a few grams of gold off the microchips and the edge connectors and things like that and the rest of the silver.
[01:01:52.800 --> 01:01:59.800]  Silver is now being used as solder in electronics equipment because lead is an environmental contaminant,
[01:01:59.800 --> 01:02:04.800]  so they're afraid sitting in these landfills that it's going to eventually leach into the groundwater and get out another way,
[01:02:04.800 --> 01:02:09.800]  so they've banned the use of lead in most of Europe.
[01:02:09.800 --> 01:02:16.800]  Since Asia, which does a lot of our electronics, manufactures for the world, we now see silver in all of our electronics.
[01:02:16.800 --> 01:02:24.800]  And the cost of recovering the silver at this point is greater than the value of silver.
[01:02:24.800 --> 01:02:28.800]  That's pretty much it. There's not enough of a margin there for it to be worthwhile.
[01:02:28.800 --> 01:02:33.800]  Well, to me, it doesn't make much sense to be going digging through landfills
[01:02:33.800 --> 01:02:41.800]  and scraping up silver out of computer chips or whatnot rather than mining it out of the ground.
[01:02:41.800 --> 01:02:47.800]  Exactly. They'll continue to mine it if it ever disappears.
[01:02:47.800 --> 01:02:54.800]  Like I said, it's more of a bi-metal. It's a co-metal with lead mines, zinc, and tin, I believe,
[01:02:54.800 --> 01:02:58.800]  are the most common ones that also have a byproduct.
[01:02:58.800 --> 01:03:02.800]  Just like with copper mines, you find a great amount of gold along with copper mines.
[01:03:02.800 --> 01:03:10.800]  So companies use this byproduct of silver and gold to lower the cost of production of their main metal.
[01:03:10.800 --> 01:03:17.800]  So a copper supplier like Freeport-MacMoran, they actually have a negative cost value on the copper that they provide to the market.
[01:03:17.800 --> 01:03:22.800]  It actually costs them less than a dollar for a dollar's worth of copper
[01:03:22.800 --> 01:03:26.800]  because of the amount of gold that they pull out in conjunction with their copper mining.
[01:03:26.800 --> 01:03:30.800]  So they're really a gold company masquerading as a copper company.
[01:03:30.800 --> 01:03:37.800]  Right, and they use the copper. The copper is just something to supplement the gold extraction.
[01:03:37.800 --> 01:03:42.800]  It's really the other way around. The copper is what they mainly sell,
[01:03:42.800 --> 01:03:46.800]  but the amount of gold that they pull out of the ground finances their copper.
[01:03:46.800 --> 01:03:50.800]  In some of their mines, their cost of production for copper is less than zero
[01:03:50.800 --> 01:03:54.800]  because of the amount of gold that they also pull up along with it.
[01:03:54.800 --> 01:03:59.800]  Okay, Tim, this brings me to a question, and some people might think this is a stupid question,
[01:03:59.800 --> 01:04:07.800]  but besides just the scarcity issue, why is gold worth so much more than silver?
[01:04:07.800 --> 01:04:11.800]  Why is platinum worth, or I shouldn't say worth, because it's not actually worth.
[01:04:11.800 --> 01:04:16.800]  It's just the value, and you're talking about purchasing power of fiat currency,
[01:04:16.800 --> 01:04:20.800]  but why is the price of gold so much higher than silver?
[01:04:20.800 --> 01:04:24.800]  Is it just sheerly nothing but a scarcity issue,
[01:04:24.800 --> 01:04:33.800]  or is this some sort of makeshift, phony price discrepancy, or what's the deal here?
[01:04:33.800 --> 01:04:41.800]  I know originally it had to be a discrepancy issue, but why the big discrepancy between gold and silver?
[01:04:41.800 --> 01:04:49.800]  It's supply, it's demand, it's the feel of the metal in your hand, it's characteristics.
[01:04:49.800 --> 01:04:53.800]  It's the most malleable metal known. Gold is the most malleable metal.
[01:04:53.800 --> 01:05:02.800]  You can take a small piece of it, and you can flatten it out into an extremely large sheet.
[01:05:02.800 --> 01:05:06.800]  You can take a one-ounce coin and bang it out into a huge sheet.
[01:05:06.800 --> 01:05:12.800]  It is simply man's attraction to gold as a metal.
[01:05:12.800 --> 01:05:16.800]  It's a pretty metal. It weighs heavy in your hand for its size.
[01:05:16.800 --> 01:05:21.800]  You mean pretty shiny?
[01:05:21.800 --> 01:05:27.800]  Well, it sounds like also it has more intrinsic uses, like you're saying it's more malleable.
[01:05:27.800 --> 01:05:35.800]  It can be pounded out into a thinner sheet, and it has more reflective properties and these kinds of things.
[01:05:35.800 --> 01:05:39.800]  You aren't actually using it to a great deal, are we?
[01:05:39.800 --> 01:05:47.800]  No, industrially we use it for edge connectors, we use it in electronics, we use it in a few other things.
[01:05:47.800 --> 01:05:51.800]  Silver actually is a more reflective metal.
[01:05:51.800 --> 01:05:57.800]  One of its main uses was the backing on mirrors and things like that.
[01:05:57.800 --> 01:06:00.800]  It's a very conductive metal.
[01:06:00.800 --> 01:06:05.800]  Platinum is very, very scarce.
[01:06:05.800 --> 01:06:11.800]  It requires that you move mountains to get a few ounces of platinum.
[01:06:11.800 --> 01:06:15.800]  It's very hard to refine and purify.
[01:06:15.800 --> 01:06:20.800]  When you're all done, you've got a metal that has an extremely high melting point.
[01:06:20.800 --> 01:06:28.800]  It's virtually absolutely noble, meaning there are very few things that will corrode it or affect it in any way.
[01:06:28.800 --> 01:06:32.800]  It's used in making glassware.
[01:06:32.800 --> 01:06:34.800]  They use it for crucibles for glassware.
[01:06:34.800 --> 01:06:41.800]  They use it in chemical plants to mix caustic chemicals that would normally eat up a stainless steel flask or a glass flask.
[01:06:41.800 --> 01:06:47.800]  It has a lot of uses like that.
[01:06:47.800 --> 01:06:57.800]  As a catalyst in catalytic converters, not just on cars, but in coal plants and natural gas-fired plants, it's used as a catalyst.
[01:06:57.800 --> 01:07:06.800]  There's more platinum used in a hybrid car than there would be in the same size internal combustion car because of the amount of time the motor runs.
[01:07:06.800 --> 01:07:09.800]  It requires more platinum in order to produce the catalytic effect.
[01:07:09.800 --> 01:07:18.800]  All metals have their scarcity, the demand for them, the difficulty of refining or mining them.
[01:07:18.800 --> 01:07:26.800]  In Gold's example, it's just always been something that seems to attract humankind.
[01:07:26.800 --> 01:07:27.800]  All right.
[01:07:27.800 --> 01:07:28.800]  That's a great answer.
[01:07:28.800 --> 01:07:32.800]  I did know several points of your answer.
[01:07:32.800 --> 01:07:34.800]  I just wanted to get your take on that.
[01:07:34.800 --> 01:07:37.800]  We do have Dr. Bill Veith on the line and also Chris Emery.
[01:07:37.800 --> 01:07:39.800]  Chris, if you would just hold tight for one moment.
[01:07:39.800 --> 01:07:42.800]  I want to take Dr. Veith's call.
[01:07:42.800 --> 01:07:44.800]  Bill, thank you for calling in.
[01:07:44.800 --> 01:07:48.800]  Hey, thank you, Debbie, and thank you for alerting me to the program tonight.
[01:07:48.800 --> 01:07:52.800]  I was out and got in late, but as you know, this is my favorite subject.
[01:07:52.800 --> 01:07:57.800]  It sounds like your guest really knows what he's talking about with this, so I wanted to call in.
[01:07:57.800 --> 01:08:04.800]  One thing I wanted to expound on, if I could, on that ratio of silver to gold,
[01:08:04.800 --> 01:08:14.800]  one thing I did read about a year ago was I read a number of studies from geological surveyors
[01:08:14.800 --> 01:08:24.800]  that did an analysis on the actual physical deposits of silver versus gold in the Earth's crust.
[01:08:24.800 --> 01:08:31.800]  These studies all came up to be in between anywhere from 12 to 1 to 8 to 1.
[01:08:31.800 --> 01:08:34.800]  It's possible, now it may never happen,
[01:08:34.800 --> 01:08:40.800]  but it's possible that the value of silver to gold could actually go below the 15 to 1,
[01:08:40.800 --> 01:08:44.800]  which has been the historic ratio.
[01:08:44.800 --> 01:08:49.800]  Another thing is that silver is deposited closer to the Earth's surface than gold,
[01:08:49.800 --> 01:08:53.800]  so the easy silver has already been mined.
[01:08:53.800 --> 01:08:57.800]  It's possible that the actual deposits left in the Earth's crust right now
[01:08:57.800 --> 01:09:01.800]  are even less than the geological deposits of 8 to 1.
[01:09:01.800 --> 01:09:09.800]  Like your guest said, he thinks that gold is not really necessarily in a free market condition,
[01:09:09.800 --> 01:09:12.800]  it's not really an investment, it's a store of value,
[01:09:12.800 --> 01:09:18.800]  but because the price has probably been artificially suppressed for so long by the paper markets,
[01:09:18.800 --> 01:09:23.800]  it has become an investment, and silver may be even a way better investment than gold
[01:09:23.800 --> 01:09:29.800]  if that ratio gets back to 15 to 1 or 10 to 1 or 8 to 1, as it very well could.
[01:09:29.800 --> 01:09:35.800]  One other thing is, in the past, gold has been confiscated by this government
[01:09:35.800 --> 01:09:37.800]  and by governments of other countries,
[01:09:37.800 --> 01:09:40.800]  where, to my knowledge, silver has never been confiscated,
[01:09:40.800 --> 01:09:45.800]  so it might be safer to hold than gold.
[01:09:45.800 --> 01:09:48.800]  Silver, I don't think they could confiscate it,
[01:09:48.800 --> 01:09:53.800]  because over 50% of the silver that's ever been mined is used industrially,
[01:09:53.800 --> 01:09:58.800]  and it's got thousands of uses, where gold is pretty much a monetary metal.
[01:09:58.800 --> 01:10:02.800]  It doesn't really get used up industrially, it just gets stored somewhere.
[01:10:02.800 --> 01:10:08.800]  So for all those reasons, I too think silver is a better investment opportunity than gold.
[01:10:08.800 --> 01:10:12.800]  Right, and as I pointed out, oftentimes gold, even when it's used industrially,
[01:10:12.800 --> 01:10:17.800]  they take great pains at the end of the process to recover as much as possible before the item is discarded.
[01:10:17.800 --> 01:10:23.800]  Right, because of its value, but silver, it would cost more in terms of man hours
[01:10:23.800 --> 01:10:29.800]  to go try to get 10 cents worth of silver out of this little chip or 50 cents out of that little item.
[01:10:29.800 --> 01:10:34.800]  It would be worth it, so a lot of the silver that's been used is now unrecoverable.
[01:10:34.800 --> 01:10:39.800]  Where that's not the case with gold is something like 98 or 99% of all the gold that's ever been mined
[01:10:39.800 --> 01:10:44.800]  is sitting somewhere above ground in a recoverable form, where that's not the case with silver.
[01:10:44.800 --> 01:10:54.800]  So for many, many reasons, it's my opinion that silver is a better opportunity for investment than gold.
[01:10:54.800 --> 01:11:01.800]  Well, it seems to me like, Bill, from what I've learned from you and from what Tim is saying,
[01:11:01.800 --> 01:11:07.800]  there is a considerable amount of more industrial uses for silver,
[01:11:07.800 --> 01:11:14.800]  and it almost is treated as a disposable material in construction.
[01:11:14.800 --> 01:11:20.800]  And so it seems to be like there's more of a demand for it as far as a flow is concerned,
[01:11:20.800 --> 01:11:26.800]  because gold is, it seems to me like gold is more used as an asset that someone would hold on to,
[01:11:26.800 --> 01:11:30.800]  but silver is like a construction material.
[01:11:30.800 --> 01:11:36.800]  And so, yeah, it's more consumable or it's more consumed than gold.
[01:11:36.800 --> 01:11:41.800]  And so it seems like there would be more of a consistent demand for it.
[01:11:41.800 --> 01:11:43.800]  Is that the case?
[01:11:43.800 --> 01:11:46.800]  That is also my opinion, yes.
[01:11:46.800 --> 01:11:51.800]  And I think we saw a bit of an example of that, too, in just the recent condition of,
[01:11:51.800 --> 01:11:57.800]  you know, we had gold at $1,000 in silver, you know, 20-some bucks back in March
[01:11:57.800 --> 01:12:00.800]  before kind of the bottom fell out of the precious metals market.
[01:12:00.800 --> 01:12:02.800]  I mean, it dropped drastically.
[01:12:02.800 --> 01:12:05.800]  During that time where we were scrambling to get product
[01:12:05.800 --> 01:12:08.800]  because everybody wanted to buy gold at $800 and $700,
[01:12:08.800 --> 01:12:11.800]  and everybody wanted to buy silver at $9 and $10,
[01:12:11.800 --> 01:12:18.800]  we saw premiums on silver products of 40%, 50% at times.
[01:12:18.800 --> 01:12:20.800]  Just that's from our suppliers.
[01:12:20.800 --> 01:12:23.800]  If we could find it at all, if we could find it at all,
[01:12:23.800 --> 01:12:26.800]  it was dollar for dollar, it was much easier to find gold than it was silver.
[01:12:26.800 --> 01:12:27.800]  Right.
[01:12:27.800 --> 01:12:30.800]  Not that gold was easy, but silver was impossible.
[01:12:30.800 --> 01:12:34.800]  Right.
[01:12:34.800 --> 01:12:39.800]  Well, okay, okay, so Tim, you just admitted silver was almost impossible to find.
[01:12:39.800 --> 01:12:42.800]  And I know it's still hard to find.
[01:12:42.800 --> 01:12:43.800]  So what is the deal?
[01:12:43.800 --> 01:12:45.800]  Why is the price still so low?
[01:12:45.800 --> 01:12:48.800]  Something's wrong here.
[01:12:48.800 --> 01:12:50.800]  It's a much more thinly traded market,
[01:12:50.800 --> 01:12:53.800]  and there's much, much more paper being written on silver
[01:12:53.800 --> 01:12:56.800]  than there is on any other commodity.
[01:12:56.800 --> 01:12:59.800]  It's a smaller market, so it's easier to manipulate the price,
[01:12:59.800 --> 01:13:02.800]  and so it's a more volatile market.
[01:13:02.800 --> 01:13:07.800]  But again, that volatility can create great upside potential for an investment, too.
[01:13:07.800 --> 01:13:08.800]  Okay, well, wait a minute.
[01:13:08.800 --> 01:13:10.800]  I want to go back to something here.
[01:13:10.800 --> 01:13:15.800]  Okay, you guys both said that it's more thinly traded,
[01:13:15.800 --> 01:13:20.800]  but Tim, you just said that there's more paper written on silver,
[01:13:20.800 --> 01:13:26.800]  and I'm interpreting that to mean that more futures contracts are written on silver.
[01:13:26.800 --> 01:13:30.800]  So that seems to be in conflict to me.
[01:13:30.800 --> 01:13:34.800]  If it's a more thinly traded market, but yet there's more paper written on it,
[01:13:34.800 --> 01:13:38.800]  those two statements are in opposition.
[01:13:38.800 --> 01:13:39.800]  There are two markets.
[01:13:39.800 --> 01:13:40.800]  Basically, there are two markets.
[01:13:40.800 --> 01:13:43.800]  There is that paper market where nothing but contracts are traded,
[01:13:43.800 --> 01:13:45.800]  which is very heavily traded.
[01:13:45.800 --> 01:13:47.800]  Then there's the actual physical market,
[01:13:47.800 --> 01:13:52.800]  which dollar for dollar to gold is a much smaller market.
[01:13:52.800 --> 01:14:02.800]  So it's very easy to manipulate prices when you have paper markets setting the price.
[01:14:02.800 --> 01:14:05.800]  That's where the conflict comes from.
[01:14:05.800 --> 01:14:06.800]  Okay, okay, I have two questions.
[01:14:06.800 --> 01:14:08.800]  I have two questions for both of y'all.
[01:14:08.800 --> 01:14:10.800]  Both of y'all can address both of these questions.
[01:14:10.800 --> 01:14:16.800]  Number one, why is there so much more paper written on silver than gold?
[01:14:16.800 --> 01:14:25.800]  And number two, why is the paper setting the price rather than the laws of supply and demand?
[01:14:25.800 --> 01:14:29.800]  So I want both of y'all to address both of these questions.
[01:14:29.800 --> 01:14:36.800]  So Tim, would you go first, and then Dr. V?
[01:14:36.800 --> 01:14:40.800]  Silver is used in this industrial process.
[01:14:40.800 --> 01:14:43.800]  It's consumed and it's lost.
[01:14:43.800 --> 01:14:47.800]  Oil is only beneficial if it's being used.
[01:14:47.800 --> 01:14:54.800]  Silver in the paper market, silver in the industrial market is used and consumed,
[01:14:54.800 --> 01:14:56.800]  so it must be constantly replaced.
[01:14:56.800 --> 01:15:00.800]  Gold is always around.
[01:15:00.800 --> 01:15:03.800]  It isn't discarded at the end of the process.
[01:15:03.800 --> 01:15:07.800]  So you're saying because of the consumable nature of silver in industry,
[01:15:07.800 --> 01:15:11.800]  that's why more futures contracts are written on it?
[01:15:11.800 --> 01:15:18.800]  It is a process designed to keep the price of silver suppressed.
[01:15:18.800 --> 01:15:27.800]  So it becomes a real commodity like soybeans or wheat or anything else they sell futures on.
[01:15:27.800 --> 01:15:29.800]  It's produced, it's consumed.
[01:15:29.800 --> 01:15:32.800]  Next year we have to produce again.
[01:15:32.800 --> 01:15:43.800]  And they're betting on the consumption to consumption ratio, production to consumption.
[01:15:43.800 --> 01:15:50.800]  I think once we chew through the stockpile of silver that exists,
[01:15:50.800 --> 01:15:57.800]  and less and less is being brought to market as base metal mining continues to fall
[01:15:57.800 --> 01:16:00.800]  due to demand destruction for the base metals,
[01:16:00.800 --> 01:16:03.800]  I think that's when we'll see silver finally find its true price.
[01:16:03.800 --> 01:16:06.800]  In other words, the laws of supply and demand will finally kick in.
[01:16:06.800 --> 01:16:09.800]  Okay, Dr. V, those two questions.
[01:16:09.800 --> 01:16:13.800]  Why is more paper written on silver than gold,
[01:16:13.800 --> 01:16:23.800]  and why is the laws of supply and demand not dictating the price of silver?
[01:16:23.800 --> 01:16:24.800]  Dr. V?
[01:16:24.800 --> 01:16:25.800]  Oh, I'm sorry.
[01:16:25.800 --> 01:16:26.800]  I didn't know if you were talking to me.
[01:16:26.800 --> 01:16:27.800]  Yes, I'm talking to you.
[01:16:27.800 --> 01:16:28.800]  I want you to address those two questions, please.
[01:16:28.800 --> 01:16:29.800]  Okay.
[01:16:29.800 --> 01:16:34.800]  Well, you know, again, silver is a monetary metal and a commodity.
[01:16:34.800 --> 01:16:36.800]  Gold is pretty much just a monetary metal.
[01:16:36.800 --> 01:16:38.800]  I mean, they use it for jewelry, but it's money.
[01:16:38.800 --> 01:16:42.800]  Gold is money, and gold is the money that the governments
[01:16:42.800 --> 01:16:44.800]  and the kings and the emperors use,
[01:16:44.800 --> 01:16:48.800]  and silver has always been the money that the population uses,
[01:16:48.800 --> 01:16:51.800]  you know, that circulates as a medium of exchange,
[01:16:51.800 --> 01:16:54.800]  and gold is stored and hoarded.
[01:16:54.800 --> 01:16:56.800]  Silver is traded, you know.
[01:16:56.800 --> 01:17:03.800]  I don't know exactly what the paper contracts are in regards to gold and silver.
[01:17:03.800 --> 01:17:05.800]  I don't know how much more silver is traded,
[01:17:05.800 --> 01:17:09.800]  but silver is used industrially by industrial users all the time,
[01:17:09.800 --> 01:17:12.800]  so they constantly have to buy and use silver,
[01:17:12.800 --> 01:17:14.800]  where gold can sit in some vault,
[01:17:14.800 --> 01:17:17.800]  and unless somebody wants to, you know, sell the gold,
[01:17:17.800 --> 01:17:18.800]  it sits in the vault.
[01:17:18.800 --> 01:17:19.800]  It just sits there.
[01:17:19.800 --> 01:17:22.800]  And even if they sell it, a lot of times they don't move the gold.
[01:17:22.800 --> 01:17:23.800]  It sits in the same vault.
[01:17:23.800 --> 01:17:25.800]  They just sell the contract.
[01:17:25.800 --> 01:17:30.800]  And so, you know, again, we don't know how much gold and silver has been sold.
[01:17:30.800 --> 01:17:34.800]  The same quantity sitting in some vault has been sold to different people.
[01:17:34.800 --> 01:17:36.800]  It's a fractional reserve system,
[01:17:36.800 --> 01:17:40.800]  where if everybody starts asking for physical delivery of the futures contracts
[01:17:40.800 --> 01:17:43.800]  and the contracts to buy gold and silver,
[01:17:43.800 --> 01:17:46.800]  who knows how the ratios are going to show up?
[01:17:46.800 --> 01:17:51.800]  See, right now the paper market sets the spot price of gold and silver,
[01:17:51.800 --> 01:17:54.800]  but that is starting to diverge now because the physical price
[01:17:54.800 --> 01:17:58.800]  that you actually have to buy it at is quite a bit higher than the paper spot price.
[01:17:58.800 --> 01:18:03.800]  So that divergence is now showing the population out there
[01:18:03.800 --> 01:18:07.800]  that, you know, these markets, there's something funny going on with these markets.
[01:18:07.800 --> 01:18:11.800]  And so I think more and more people are going to start asking for physical delivery
[01:18:11.800 --> 01:18:12.800]  of their paper contracts,
[01:18:12.800 --> 01:18:15.800]  and then we'll find out what the true ratios really are
[01:18:15.800 --> 01:18:19.800]  and what the things are really worth.
[01:18:19.800 --> 01:18:24.800]  Tim, I know this is a very complicated formula because I've looked it up before,
[01:18:24.800 --> 01:18:28.800]  and it's involving calculus and differential equations
[01:18:28.800 --> 01:18:31.800]  and all these kinds of things, which I have taught
[01:18:31.800 --> 01:18:36.800]  when I was in a Ph.D. program for mathematics.
[01:18:36.800 --> 01:18:42.800]  But could you just explain briefly what is the deal with the spot price?
[01:18:42.800 --> 01:18:48.800]  It is set by futures bidding, right?
[01:18:48.800 --> 01:18:52.800]  The spot price has absolutely nothing to do with the law of supply and demand.
[01:18:52.800 --> 01:18:54.800]  Is that correct?
[01:18:54.800 --> 01:18:56.800]  That is correct.
[01:18:56.800 --> 01:19:01.800]  Because, like I said, the paper market, the futures market, as it's called,
[01:19:01.800 --> 01:19:05.800]  it's an imaginary market.
[01:19:05.800 --> 01:19:08.800]  You can make as much paper just like with fiat currency.
[01:19:08.800 --> 01:19:12.800]  It's a fiat market.
[01:19:12.800 --> 01:19:16.800]  So the spot price is basically just some kind of an average.
[01:19:16.800 --> 01:19:21.800]  I mean, like I said, I've looked up the formula, and this is overly...
[01:19:21.800 --> 01:19:24.800]  Yeah, it has to do with high value money and expiration of contracts.
[01:19:24.800 --> 01:19:31.800]  And then you have contango, and you have backwardization to take into account.
[01:19:31.800 --> 01:19:36.800]  They are relative to each other, but frankly, when you go to buy it, like I said,
[01:19:36.800 --> 01:19:41.800]  I mean, in investment quantities, in order to get an investment bar of silver,
[01:19:41.800 --> 01:19:45.800]  you're looking at 25% to 30% more than the spot price
[01:19:45.800 --> 01:19:50.800]  in order to buy an investment bar of silver, an investment-sized bar.
[01:19:50.800 --> 01:19:57.800]  If you want to go to the COMEX floor and plunk down your $11,400-and-some today,
[01:19:57.800 --> 01:20:00.800]  you can actually still buy a thousand-ounce bar.
[01:20:00.800 --> 01:20:03.800]  You can take a futures contract and ask for delivery.
[01:20:03.800 --> 01:20:05.800]  But that generally doesn't take place.
[01:20:05.800 --> 01:20:07.800]  It probably happened more last month.
[01:20:07.800 --> 01:20:11.800]  There was an attempt made to blow up the COMEX, both in gold and silver,
[01:20:11.800 --> 01:20:17.800]  and they managed to get about in the high 40% of both markets
[01:20:17.800 --> 01:20:23.800]  the entire inventory of the COMEX was carted off last month.
[01:20:23.800 --> 01:20:25.800]  And that's very rare.
[01:20:25.800 --> 01:20:28.800]  I mean, it's very rare that anybody settles in physical,
[01:20:28.800 --> 01:20:32.800]  and last month was a big rush to try and settle as much in physical as possible.
[01:20:32.800 --> 01:20:37.800]  People were buying their silver in thousand-ounce bars from the COMEX futures market.
[01:20:37.800 --> 01:20:40.800]  What happens if they continue to do that?
[01:20:40.800 --> 01:20:45.800]  It could result in taking away all of their inventory.
[01:20:45.800 --> 01:20:54.800]  They did have to replenish silver inventory, actually, in order to not end up in 60%.
[01:20:54.800 --> 01:21:00.800]  It is possible, I think, for them to empty that COMEX market of all industrial silver.
[01:21:00.800 --> 01:21:02.800]  What happens if that occurs?
[01:21:02.800 --> 01:21:03.800]  They could default.
[01:21:03.800 --> 01:21:04.800]  Well, then they can't deliver.
[01:21:04.800 --> 01:21:09.800]  They would either have to default, meaning that you would have a contract open
[01:21:09.800 --> 01:21:13.800]  and the person on the other side of the contract would be in default.
[01:21:13.800 --> 01:21:18.800]  They could, as has happened in the past in commodities markets,
[01:21:18.800 --> 01:21:22.800]  they have forced people to accept only cash settlements,
[01:21:22.800 --> 01:21:27.800]  meaning that if your contract expired in the money, as they call it,
[01:21:27.800 --> 01:21:33.800]  in other words, you had a contract to buy silver for $10 and silver was $11,
[01:21:33.800 --> 01:21:37.800]  then the person on the other side would have to give you a dollar for each dollar contract
[01:21:37.800 --> 01:21:40.800]  or each one-ounce contract you were holding.
[01:21:40.800 --> 01:21:41.800]  They would force a cash settlement.
[01:21:41.800 --> 01:21:45.800]  But in a futures market, in an options market, you have the option of,
[01:21:45.800 --> 01:21:50.800]  even if silver was, say, $10 and you had a contract for $11,
[01:21:50.800 --> 01:21:53.800]  you could pay $11 and still get your delivery.
[01:21:53.800 --> 01:21:56.800]  Most people wouldn't, in a normal market, do that.
[01:21:56.800 --> 01:22:02.800]  But when the physical market is running 30% or 40% higher than the futures market,
[01:22:02.800 --> 01:22:03.800]  it kind of makes sense.
[01:22:03.800 --> 01:22:07.800]  You take your thousand-ounce bar, you hack it up into 100-ounce pieces,
[01:22:07.800 --> 01:22:09.800]  melt it down into bars or coins or whatever,
[01:22:09.800 --> 01:22:12.800]  and then you take it out and you sell it.
[01:22:12.800 --> 01:22:23.800]  So you pay 10% more for it, then you sell it for 30% more, so you come up with a 20% gain.
[01:22:23.800 --> 01:22:24.800]  20%.
[01:22:24.800 --> 01:22:25.800]  Okay, Tim, let me...
[01:22:25.800 --> 01:22:28.800]  I think that's been happening to some extent.
[01:22:28.800 --> 01:22:29.800]  Okay, Tim, let me ask you this.
[01:22:29.800 --> 01:22:34.800]  And I don't know if you're familiar with the futures markets that much because I'm not,
[01:22:34.800 --> 01:22:39.800]  but just from a common-sense perspective, layman point of view,
[01:22:39.800 --> 01:22:44.800]  it seems to me that as there's a run on the market, so to speak,
[01:22:44.800 --> 01:22:46.800]  and a shortage of the physical supply,
[01:22:46.800 --> 01:22:50.800]  it seems to me like the natural progression in the futures market would be
[01:22:50.800 --> 01:22:57.800]  that people who are placing futures contracts or futures bids would place the time length
[01:22:57.800 --> 01:23:01.800]  of their contract to be shorter and shorter rather than,
[01:23:01.800 --> 01:23:05.800]  okay, well, I'm going to place a futures contract for a year out,
[01:23:05.800 --> 01:23:08.800]  but rather a month out or even two weeks out,
[01:23:08.800 --> 01:23:13.800]  or how about just let me just buy the silver right now and give it to me.
[01:23:13.800 --> 01:23:15.800]  And it just seems to me like the natural progression,
[01:23:15.800 --> 01:23:21.800]  the natural order of things would be for the futures contracts to start getting smaller
[01:23:21.800 --> 01:23:28.800]  and smaller increment period of time to gradually progress or quickly progress
[01:23:28.800 --> 01:23:33.800]  to just straight up law of supply and demand.
[01:23:33.800 --> 01:23:36.800]  What do you think about that?
[01:23:36.800 --> 01:23:41.800]  Well, you can certainly play it that way and try to, you know,
[01:23:41.800 --> 01:23:44.800]  and get your delivery of silver, for example.
[01:23:44.800 --> 01:23:48.800]  Right now the current month that is establishing spot price, for example,
[01:23:48.800 --> 01:23:51.800]  is the March 2009 contract.
[01:23:51.800 --> 01:23:54.800]  Since the December contracts expired at the end of December,
[01:23:54.800 --> 01:23:58.800]  we're now looking at March price is what everybody's watching.
[01:23:58.800 --> 01:24:01.800]  For gold, it's the February contract.
[01:24:01.800 --> 01:24:02.800]  So they're trying to...
[01:24:02.800 --> 01:24:06.800]  There are some main months that are established on the calendar.
[01:24:06.800 --> 01:24:07.800]  I don't know how they came up with them,
[01:24:07.800 --> 01:24:11.800]  but February is one of those months for gold and March is one of those months for silver.
[01:24:11.800 --> 01:24:22.800]  So they're trying to predict what the demand or the price for silver will be in March.
[01:24:22.800 --> 01:24:23.800]  That's right.
[01:24:23.800 --> 01:24:24.800]  Yeah, that's what a futures contract is.
[01:24:24.800 --> 01:24:29.800]  So in a market where it gets harder and harder to predict,
[01:24:29.800 --> 01:24:36.800]  not a year, six months, but down to three months, two months, weeks,
[01:24:36.800 --> 01:24:42.800]  couldn't we expect people to not be willing to risk that far down?
[01:24:42.800 --> 01:24:43.800]  That's what I was saying,
[01:24:43.800 --> 01:24:49.800]  that people are not going to be placing futures contracts so far out in advance,
[01:24:49.800 --> 01:24:53.800]  but in closer increments of time.
[01:24:53.800 --> 01:24:55.800]  If you give me the metal, I'm not taking any risk.
[01:24:55.800 --> 01:24:56.800]  Yeah, no kidding.
[01:24:56.800 --> 01:24:57.800]  How about that?
[01:24:57.800 --> 01:25:00.800]  Forget the risk, forget the bid altogether.
[01:25:00.800 --> 01:25:01.800]  Right.
[01:25:01.800 --> 01:25:04.800]  Well, that's why we have a spot market as well as a futures market.
[01:25:04.800 --> 01:25:05.800]  Well, remember now on the futures market...
[01:25:05.800 --> 01:25:11.800]  And you can choose to buy it now for the spot price and go pick it up,
[01:25:11.800 --> 01:25:15.800]  or you can try to play the futures market.
[01:25:15.800 --> 01:25:22.800]  Are you dealing with futures and direct metal delivery, Tim?
[01:25:22.800 --> 01:25:23.800]  No, we don't.
[01:25:23.800 --> 01:25:26.800]  We don't deal in commodity futures at all.
[01:25:26.800 --> 01:25:27.800]  Okay, and Bill, I'm sorry.
[01:25:27.800 --> 01:25:29.800]  You were trying to say something just now.
[01:25:29.800 --> 01:25:30.800]  Go ahead, Bill.
[01:25:30.800 --> 01:25:31.800]  No, that's okay.
[01:25:31.800 --> 01:25:39.800]  I was just saying, if you go buy physical silver, you've got to pay cash for it
[01:25:39.800 --> 01:25:41.800]  and one-to-one ratio where if you can...
[01:25:41.800 --> 01:25:45.800]  People that deal on the futures markets can usually get pretty good leverage.
[01:25:45.800 --> 01:25:50.800]  So you could buy maybe a 5,000-ounce contract, and if silver is 12,000 ounces,
[01:25:50.800 --> 01:25:54.800]  if you went and bought 5,000 ounces of silver, I'm sorry, at $12 an ounce,
[01:25:54.800 --> 01:25:58.800]  you'd pay 60,000, where you might be able to put up 8,000 or 9,000
[01:25:58.800 --> 01:26:02.800]  to control 5,000 ounces of silver.
[01:26:02.800 --> 01:26:06.800]  But then the problem is if the price of silver drops, then you get a margin call,
[01:26:06.800 --> 01:26:09.800]  and if you can't meet your margin call, you lose your contract.
[01:26:09.800 --> 01:26:14.800]  And that happens a lot of times, especially when these markets get to be pretty volatile
[01:26:14.800 --> 01:26:17.800]  and they get together, the plunge protection team,
[01:26:17.800 --> 01:26:21.800]  and drops the price of gold and silver because it's all planned ahead of time.
[01:26:21.800 --> 01:26:24.800]  They drop them at certain times of the day, all at once,
[01:26:24.800 --> 01:26:30.800]  and then they know how many people they can create huge margin calls
[01:26:30.800 --> 01:26:34.800]  and knock a lot of people out of their contracts.
[01:26:34.800 --> 01:26:40.800]  And actually, it's not quite that bad. You lose the investment you made to buy the contract.
[01:26:40.800 --> 01:26:43.800]  When you buy that contract, like he says,
[01:26:43.800 --> 01:26:52.800]  you're only putting up a few hundred dollars to control thousands of ounces of silver currently in March.
[01:26:52.800 --> 01:26:59.800]  So if you buy that March contract today, you put up a few hundred dollars to buy 5,000 ounces of silver.
[01:26:59.800 --> 01:27:02.800]  You don't actually have to buy the 5,000 ounces of silver.
[01:27:02.800 --> 01:27:05.800]  You can sell the contract before it expires if it's still in the money.
[01:27:05.800 --> 01:27:11.800]  You have a contract to buy silver, say, today at $11, and then it's $11.21.
[01:27:11.800 --> 01:27:18.800]  You can sell that contract to somebody who, while it's still in the money,
[01:27:18.800 --> 01:27:22.800]  you could sell it to somebody for more than you paid for it and just walk away before the contract expires.
[01:27:22.800 --> 01:27:26.800]  Or you could come right up to the deadline, exercise your contract to take that silver,
[01:27:26.800 --> 01:27:30.800]  in which case you would have to put up the rest of the money to buy the silver.
[01:27:30.800 --> 01:27:36.800]  You'd have to put up the $11 or $12 an ounce, whatever your contract was for, to buy that silver.
[01:27:36.800 --> 01:27:41.800]  So there are some advantages to it. It is a great way to leverage your money.
[01:27:41.800 --> 01:27:44.800]  And at the end, you also choose to settle in cash.
[01:27:44.800 --> 01:27:53.800]  If you're in the money, then you can just take the additional difference between the strike price of your contract and the actual price of silver.
[01:27:53.800 --> 01:27:56.800]  Right. Well, and it sounds to me like...
[01:27:56.800 --> 01:27:59.800]  That's the advantage of the futures market.
[01:27:59.800 --> 01:28:00.800]  Hey, listen, Debbie.
[01:28:00.800 --> 01:28:01.800]  Yes.
[01:28:01.800 --> 01:28:04.800]  Thank you for having me on. I have some company here. I'm going to get off and...
[01:28:04.800 --> 01:28:05.800]  Okay. Thank you, Bill.
[01:28:05.800 --> 01:28:08.800]  I'm going to listen to the show on the Internet.
[01:28:08.800 --> 01:28:11.800]  Okay. Thank you, Bill. Thank you so much for calling in.
[01:28:11.800 --> 01:28:13.800]  Thank you, Tim, for your information.
[01:28:13.800 --> 01:28:14.800]  Yes. Yes.
[01:28:14.800 --> 01:28:15.800]  Thank you.
[01:28:15.800 --> 01:28:19.800]  And we're going to go to break here in about one minute.
[01:28:19.800 --> 01:28:26.800]  And Tim, you know, and I'm just learning about this whole thing about futures and what it really means.
[01:28:26.800 --> 01:28:40.800]  You know, you're talking about, you know, people, when the contract is up and they just reinvest, either that or they would have to put up the difference of the spot price in order to get delivery.
[01:28:40.800 --> 01:28:53.800]  And so it sounds to me like a lot of people are getting ripped off or could potentially get ripped off in the futures market by just continuing to bid, continuing to bet, continuing to play on this futures contracts,
[01:28:53.800 --> 01:28:56.800]  and never really getting delivery of their metals.
[01:28:56.800 --> 01:29:00.800]  I mean, I don't know. It seems kind of unsafe to me.
[01:29:00.800 --> 01:29:06.800]  They don't actually want to take delivery of the metals. They just want the cash difference.
[01:29:06.800 --> 01:29:10.800]  So the people that play the long side of silver just want the cash difference.
[01:29:10.800 --> 01:29:14.800]  The people on the short side, they want your contract money.
[01:29:14.800 --> 01:29:25.800]  So if I'm selling silver, I'm short silver, I'm going to go sell a contract at eleven bucks and you're going to buy that contract at eleven bucks, hoping silver goes closer to twelve dollars.
[01:29:25.800 --> 01:29:30.800]  So at the end, if silver is ten bucks, then spot price of silver is ten dollars.
[01:29:30.800 --> 01:29:34.800]  You walk away, you lose the contract money that you gave me to buy that contract.
[01:29:34.800 --> 01:29:40.800]  If silver is twelve dollars, then I have to give you a dollar for every ounce that you control.
[01:29:40.800 --> 01:29:43.800]  Or I might have to pony up the silver.
[01:29:43.800 --> 01:29:49.800]  Okay, Tim, look, we're going to break. I know that we've kept you long overdue from what I asked you to.
[01:29:49.800 --> 01:29:53.800]  If you would just stay for another minute or two so we can wrap up when we get back.
[01:29:53.800 --> 01:29:54.800]  No problem.
[01:29:54.800 --> 01:30:00.800]  Thank you.
[01:30:00.800 --> 01:30:06.800]  Tim, gold prices are at historic highs. With the recent pullback, this is a great time to buy.
[01:30:06.800 --> 01:30:14.800]  With the value of the dollar, risks of inflation, geopolitical uncertainties, and instability in rural financial systems, I see gold going up much higher.
[01:30:14.800 --> 01:30:21.800]  Hi, I'm Tim Fry at Roberts and Roberts Brokerage. Everybody should have some of their assets in investment-paid precious metals.
[01:30:21.800 --> 01:30:30.800]  At Roberts and Roberts Brokerage, you can buy gold, silver, and platinum with confidence from a brokerage that's specialized in the precious metals market since 1977.
[01:30:30.800 --> 01:30:38.800]  If you are new to precious metals, we will happily provide you with the information you need to make an informed decision whether or not you choose to purchase from us.
[01:30:38.800 --> 01:30:46.800]  Also, Roberts and Roberts Brokerage values your privacy and will always advise you in the event that we would be required to report any transaction.
[01:30:46.800 --> 01:30:51.800]  If you have gold, silver, or platinum you'd like to sell, we can convert it for immediate payment.
[01:30:51.800 --> 01:31:01.800]  Call us at 800-874-9760. We're Roberts and Roberts Brokerage, 800-874-9760.
[01:31:21.800 --> 01:31:26.800]  We're Roberts Brokerage.
[01:31:51.800 --> 01:32:20.800]  All right, this is the rule of law, Randy Kelton and Deborah Stevens
[01:32:20.800 --> 01:32:31.800]  on Rule of Law Radio. We're speaking with Tim Fry from Roberts and Roberts and Tim, we wanted to take Chris from Oklahoma real quick.
[01:32:31.800 --> 01:32:42.800]  We appreciate all your time and we just want to take this one call. We want to take Chris to speak with you and then we wanted you to give out your website information since you've been so gracious to stay with us so long.
[01:32:42.800 --> 01:32:54.800]  Okay, Chris, go ahead. You have a question for Tim? Chris? Chris, are you there? Okay, Chris must have dropped off the line.
[01:32:54.800 --> 01:32:56.800]  I think he must have fell asleep waiting for us.
[01:32:56.800 --> 01:32:57.800]  Yeah, he probably waited too long.
[01:32:57.800 --> 01:32:58.800]  I'm thinking the same thing.
[01:32:58.800 --> 01:33:15.800]  Okay, okay. All right. Well, Tim, so why don't you go ahead? Okay, so basically we've determined all of us are in agreement that futures contracts are somewhat risky.
[01:33:15.800 --> 01:33:30.800]  Really, I've always believed having the metal in your hand is the way to go. I want it in my pocket. I want it in my hand, you know, and I've heard all the arguments about, well, it's not safe.
[01:33:30.800 --> 01:33:43.800]  You need to have it in futures or you need to have it in a safe deposit box or, you know, you have it in your possession and then you have to be responsible for guarding it and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
[01:33:43.800 --> 01:33:49.800]  You know, it's like, hey, what am I going to do? Am I going to trust myself or am I going to trust somebody else?
[01:33:49.800 --> 01:33:54.800]  Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Let me be responsible for guarding your silver.
[01:33:54.800 --> 01:34:07.800]  Yeah, well, you know, that's what the government tries to say. I mean, it's the whole thing. I'm sorry. I'm going to go off a little bit of a tangent, but with Social Security, you know, paying into Social Security, which is not an investment.
[01:34:07.800 --> 01:34:21.800]  It's a paid, it's a tax really, you know, but check it out. It's like 50 percent. People that pay in Social Security get about 50 percent back, you know, and George Gordon says, well, I can do better than that.
[01:34:21.800 --> 01:34:31.800]  I'll give you back 70 percent and keep 30. You know, the bottom line, you know, the bottom line is I want it in my hand, in my pocket.
[01:34:31.800 --> 01:34:42.800]  Okay. I mean, look, people, we're all adults here. All right. If we can't take care of ourselves, we can't feed ourselves and put a roof over our heads or take care of our own children or whatever.
[01:34:42.800 --> 01:34:47.800]  I mean, we've got to be able to take care of our own metals, too, including bullets.
[01:34:47.800 --> 01:34:54.800]  Now, wait a minute. Don't you trust a banker to take better care of your money and your property than you do yourself?
[01:34:54.800 --> 01:35:09.800]  Whatever. I want it in my hand. So, Tim, this is what you're all about. You're not into dealing with futures contracts and this kind of thing. You're about putting the metal in people's hands. Is that correct?
[01:35:09.800 --> 01:35:26.800]  That's right. That's what we do and we specialize in a consultative sale, so we look at your situation and we help you look at your situation and what's best for you and try to make the right decisions about the proper products, gold versus silver, and try to do it that way.
[01:35:26.800 --> 01:35:31.800]  We're not about, you know, the quick hit sale. We want to establish a long-term relationship with clients.
[01:35:31.800 --> 01:35:41.800]  Like I said, we have clients that have been dealing with us for the entire 32 years we've been here. So that is our specialty. We're not looking to just get you on the phone and sell you something and get you off the phone.
[01:35:41.800 --> 01:35:49.800]  We're not going to hound you to make purchases. We're going to consult you into making sure that that's the right decision for you.
[01:35:49.800 --> 01:35:53.800]  All right. Please give out your website one more time. It looks like we have Chris back as well.
[01:35:53.800 --> 01:36:02.800]  Okay. It's www.rrbrookridge.com.
[01:36:02.800 --> 01:36:05.800]  Okay. And we're going to try to go back to Chris. Chris, are you there?
[01:36:05.800 --> 01:36:18.800]  Hi. Yes. Sorry to drop off early. I had to get another call. I was just going through Mr. Robert's website. By the way, Tim, thank you for sponsoring the network. We really appreciate that. We don't take that for granted.
[01:36:18.800 --> 01:36:32.800]  I'm one of the co-hosts with another show on the network. I wanted to ask you real quick if I were hypothetically interested in getting onto the gold investment, what is the minimum that you typically handle? Is it $500?
[01:36:32.800 --> 01:36:47.800]  Well, actually, our smallest ticket is $100. But when we're selling face to face, that makes sense. If we're going to ship it across the country and we're going to pay registered mail and insurance and all that,
[01:36:47.800 --> 01:37:00.800]  it pretty much makes sense to stay in that $500 range. But we will sell less if that's what you really want. But the shipping doesn't change much whether we're shipping 10 ounces or 1 ounce.
[01:37:00.800 --> 01:37:11.800]  Right. Okay. Well, that was my question. If things do change here, I would definitely be interested in investing with you folks. So once again, appreciate the support. You guys have a good night.
[01:37:11.800 --> 01:37:15.800]  All right. Thank you, Chris. Thank you for calling in.
[01:37:15.800 --> 01:37:27.800]  That was Chris Emery from Radio Free, Oklahoma. He does his show with Holland Vanden Neuwenhoff on Wednesday nights, 8 to 10 p.m. Central here on Rule of Law Radio.
[01:37:27.800 --> 01:37:44.800]  And indeed, Tim, we very much do appreciate you sponsoring our network. And I appreciate just the whole mindset, the principle, the paradigm that you're coming from of really putting the metal, putting the commodity in people's hands.
[01:37:44.800 --> 01:37:58.800]  Empowering people. You know, it's not a bet. It's not a futures. It's not really even investment, as you said. It's buying metals from what I understand isn't really for people that want to make a whole lot of money.
[01:37:58.800 --> 01:38:19.800]  And what does making money mean anyway to have an excess of Federal Reserve notes and they're, you know, the Federal Reserve note is inflated. And so what if you make 30 percent interest a year, but then the inflation rate is 40 percent, you actually lose.
[01:38:19.800 --> 01:38:28.800]  I mean, it seems to me like it's just more logical, practical, common sense, old school. Put it in my hand. Put it in my hand.
[01:38:28.800 --> 01:38:43.800]  And I don't want to hear about how it's so dangerous that, oh, someone could steal it. You know, what I always like to say is, well, I've got another metal to protect my gold and silver. It's called lead.
[01:38:43.800 --> 01:38:53.800]  Okay. I still think you should trust your local banker to protect your investment. He's full of it. He's full of it.
[01:38:53.800 --> 01:39:05.800]  I have to, if I, if you got time for a quick story. Go ahead. I have a client that lives, I have a client that lives in the Birmingham area that he owns a little kind of a cabin shack out in the woods.
[01:39:05.800 --> 01:39:15.800]  And this is where he was storing actually large amounts of cash. He'd been rat-holing cash, large amounts, I mean, 10 or $20,000 he had stashed in the attic of this home.
[01:39:15.800 --> 01:39:28.800]  And he kind of got the bug to buy some silver. And he contacted me and over a course of time he invested, you know, pretty much all this cash that he had in the attic of that cabin with me in silver.
[01:39:28.800 --> 01:39:37.800]  He put it in metal paint buckets and threw it back up in the attic, pretty much where he had his cash before. And then his cabin burned down.
[01:39:37.800 --> 01:39:47.800]  And I'll tell you what, he was very happy because when he cracked open those paint cans, they were melted and disfigured and deformed, but the silver inside was still silver.
[01:39:47.800 --> 01:39:54.800]  And I'm pretty sure if it had been paper that the paper would have pretty well been destroyed and he would have had nothing.
[01:39:54.800 --> 01:40:02.800]  That is a very good point. Yeah. So if you're going to store it in your mattress, just, you know, don't do it in cash.
[01:40:02.800 --> 01:40:07.800]  You can always sell your silver by the paint can. Well, yeah.
[01:40:07.800 --> 01:40:15.800]  It was a little messy, but we took care of it for him. Yeah. And I mean, the point is that it's a commodity. It's tangible.
[01:40:15.800 --> 01:40:28.800]  It's got intrinsic value. Okay. It's not like a Federal Reserve note, which isn't even a note, which Dr. Veith could speak on, which he has a great length on other shows.
[01:40:28.800 --> 01:40:36.800]  But it's not a piece of nothing promising nothing. Okay. It is something.
[01:40:36.800 --> 01:40:42.800]  It is real money. It is no one else's obligation and it will never go to zero.
[01:40:42.800 --> 01:40:49.800]  Precisely. It will never go to zero because it has an intrinsic value in and of itself and it's divisible,
[01:40:49.800 --> 01:41:01.800]  which means that a 1000 ounce bar of silver realistically is worth the same as a thousand one ounce pieces of silver.
[01:41:01.800 --> 01:41:07.800]  And that's why I was puzzled and confused about when you were talking earlier about the government,
[01:41:07.800 --> 01:41:20.800]  putting different regulations on selling a bar versus selling individual pieces and what is printed or stamped on them, you know, minting wise.
[01:41:20.800 --> 01:41:27.800]  I mean, it's not like diamonds or a piece of art. You know, you cut it up into 100 pieces.
[01:41:27.800 --> 01:41:32.800]  It's worth the same amount as if the 100 pieces were put back together.
[01:41:32.800 --> 01:41:39.800]  Yeah. And keep in mind that only changes the rules on reporting. It doesn't change what they feel that the, you know, tax obligation is.
[01:41:39.800 --> 01:41:41.800]  Exactly. Exactly.
[01:41:41.800 --> 01:41:48.800]  So it just tells us what has to be reported, not, you know, whether or not something is taxable, is a taxable event.
[01:41:48.800 --> 01:41:56.800]  Essentially, it just tells you who has to be the tattletale. You have to tell on them or they have to tell on themselves.
[01:41:56.800 --> 01:42:07.800]  Well, and also I recently learned from Dr. Vieth that in some languages, the word for silver and the word for money is the same word.
[01:42:07.800 --> 01:42:09.800]  That's right.
[01:42:09.800 --> 01:42:15.800]  Yeah. And that was a point Dr. Vieth made that gold has never been the standard.
[01:42:15.800 --> 01:42:18.800]  Always silver has been the monetary standard.
[01:42:18.800 --> 01:42:29.800]  Yes. Yes, exactly. And even in the U.S. Constitution, a dollar is defined as 371.25 grains of silver.
[01:42:29.800 --> 01:42:35.800]  We've never been on a gold standard. There is no such thing. It never was. It was always silver.
[01:42:35.800 --> 01:42:42.800]  Okay. We have about a minute left before we go to break. Tim, if you could, we've kept you long overdue.
[01:42:42.800 --> 01:42:52.800]  We appreciate your time. Could you please give out your website one more time and how people could contact you to get these medals in their hands?
[01:42:52.800 --> 01:43:09.800]  Sure. The website again is www.rrbrokerageinc.com. Probably the best way to reach us, we have a toll-free number, which is 800-874-9760.
[01:43:09.800 --> 01:43:15.800]  If you don't like toll-free numbers, we're 850-478-5270.
[01:43:15.800 --> 01:43:22.800]  Okay. Excellent. People, please call Tim and his people, get some medals, support our sponsors.
[01:43:22.800 --> 01:43:34.800]  Tim is instrumental in keeping us on the air, and we really, really, really appreciate you coming on the air tonight with us, Tim, and discussing the medals market and your business.
[01:43:34.800 --> 01:43:36.800]  Well, thank you for the opportunity. It's my pleasure.
[01:43:36.800 --> 01:43:42.800]  All right. Thank you, Tim. All right. We're cutting to break now. We've got another hour and 45 minutes.
[01:43:42.800 --> 01:43:55.800]  I'm sorry. We've got another two hours and 45 minutes to take calls. We'll be right back for this break. Thank you, Tim. We'll be right back.
[01:43:55.800 --> 01:44:10.800]  Stock markets are taking hit after hit. Corrupt bankers are choking on subprime debt. The Fed is busy printing dollars, dollars, and more dollars to bail out Wall Street, banks, and the U.S. car industry.
[01:44:10.800 --> 01:44:19.800]  As investors scramble for safety in the metals in the face of a further devaluation of the dollar, the price of silver will only increase.
[01:44:19.800 --> 01:44:29.800]  Some of the world's leading financial analysts believe that silver is one of the world's most important commodities with unparalleled investment opportunity for the future.
[01:44:29.800 --> 01:44:40.800]  Now is the time to buy silver before it heads for $75 an ounce, and the yellow metal roars back past $1,000 an ounce to new highs.
[01:44:40.800 --> 01:44:56.800]  Call Maximus Holdings now at 407-608-5430 to find out how you can turn your IRA and 401K into a solid investment, silver, without any penalties for early withdrawal.
[01:44:56.800 --> 01:45:11.800]  Even if you don't have a retirement account yet, we have fantastic investment opportunities for you. Call Maximus Holdings at 407-608-5430 for more information.
[01:45:26.800 --> 01:45:28.800]  Thank you.
[01:45:56.800 --> 01:46:07.800]  They're wishing it was more than I position the bill. They know that if they don't do it, somebody will.
[01:46:07.800 --> 01:46:27.800]  Some things in this world we'll never understand. Some things I realize fully. Somebody's gonna police that police money. Somebody's gonna put the bill.
[01:46:27.800 --> 01:46:41.800]  They're gonna put the bill. Cause I see so much in God for sale. I know they will never fail to tip back that scale. I know they will never fail to tip back that scale.
[01:46:41.800 --> 01:46:59.800]  I know they will never fail to tip back that scale. I know they will never fail to tip back that scale. I know they will never fail to tip back that scale.
[01:46:59.800 --> 01:47:03.800]  Went down to that old rock quarry the other day
[01:47:03.800 --> 01:47:07.800]  That's where I heard that old rock quarry message
[01:47:07.800 --> 01:47:12.800]  He knew I'd always have a place for my head to lay
[01:47:12.800 --> 01:47:16.800]  I filled up my truck, waved goodbye and drove away
[01:47:16.800 --> 01:47:20.800]  There's things in this world I will never understand
[01:47:20.800 --> 01:47:24.800]  The things I've realized fully
[01:47:24.800 --> 01:47:29.800]  Somebody's gonna police a policeman
[01:47:29.800 --> 01:47:32.800]  Somebody's gonna push a bully
[01:47:32.800 --> 01:47:35.800]  I know they will, yeah
[01:47:35.800 --> 01:47:38.800]  They're gonna push a bill
[01:47:38.800 --> 01:47:41.800]  I see so much injustice in you
[01:47:41.800 --> 01:47:45.800]  I know they will never fail to get you back to school
[01:47:45.800 --> 01:47:49.800]  I know they will never fail to get you back to school
[01:47:49.800 --> 01:47:54.800]  I know they will, yeah
[01:47:54.800 --> 01:47:58.800]  They're gonna push a bill
[01:47:58.800 --> 01:48:02.800]  I see so much injustice in you
[01:48:02.800 --> 01:48:07.800]  I know they will never fail to get you back to school
[01:48:07.800 --> 01:48:10.800]  I know they will
[01:48:10.800 --> 01:48:12.800]  I know they will
[01:48:12.800 --> 01:48:14.800]  I know they will
[01:48:14.800 --> 01:48:18.800]  I know they will
[01:48:18.800 --> 01:48:23.800]  I know they will never, never will
[01:48:23.800 --> 01:48:28.800]  I know they will never fail, never fail
[01:48:28.800 --> 01:48:32.800]  I know they will just be never failed
[01:48:32.800 --> 01:48:38.800]  I know they will, I know they will
[01:48:38.800 --> 01:48:43.800]  Can't do that, no we can't do that
[01:49:13.800 --> 01:49:41.840]  All right, we are back at the Rule of Law, Rule of Law Radio on ruleoflawradio.com.
[01:49:41.840 --> 01:49:48.280]  We just spoke with Tim Fry, one of our sponsors in the metals market, also Dr. Bill Veath,
[01:49:48.280 --> 01:49:50.900]  Chris Emery from Radio Free Oklahoma.
[01:49:50.900 --> 01:49:56.240]  Please check out the archives from Radio Free Oklahoma from last night.
[01:49:56.240 --> 01:50:05.160]  Chris and Holland were broadcasting live from Book Beat in Oklahoma City where Sander Hicks
[01:50:05.160 --> 01:50:14.080]  was doing a book signing and also doing a Q&A and giving a talk about his research in 9-11
[01:50:14.080 --> 01:50:15.080]  Truth.
[01:50:15.080 --> 01:50:21.320]  Sander Hicks, one of the premier researchers of 9-11 Truth, also, actually, he's tonight
[01:50:21.320 --> 01:50:27.600]  at Brand New Books, so actually, you know, a lot of you may be there right now.
[01:50:27.600 --> 01:50:28.760]  You better not be there now.
[01:50:28.760 --> 01:50:31.040]  You better be here listening to our radio.
[01:50:31.040 --> 01:50:33.160]  I'm sorry, last night.
[01:50:33.160 --> 01:50:34.160]  There we go.
[01:50:34.160 --> 01:50:35.160]  Last night.
[01:50:35.160 --> 01:50:36.160]  Sander Hicks was last night.
[01:50:36.160 --> 01:50:37.160]  I'm getting my days confused.
[01:50:37.160 --> 01:50:41.880]  So, actually, people in Austin probably would be listening to us.
[01:50:41.880 --> 01:50:45.080]  Okay, we are going to go now to George in Texas.
[01:50:45.080 --> 01:50:47.280]  George, thanks for calling in.
[01:50:47.280 --> 01:50:48.280]  What's on your mind tonight?
[01:50:48.280 --> 01:50:49.280]  Hi.
[01:50:49.280 --> 01:50:50.280]  How are you doing?
[01:50:50.280 --> 01:50:51.280]  Good.
[01:50:51.280 --> 01:50:59.760]  You know, the thing is, my following law just passed away about three weeks ago, and you
[01:50:59.760 --> 01:51:05.160]  know the thing is, now all his creditors are trying to put a bill of attaener on it, trying
[01:51:05.160 --> 01:51:08.040]  to get one of us to touch it.
[01:51:08.040 --> 01:51:11.440]  Wait, one of you to what?
[01:51:11.440 --> 01:51:14.880]  To be responsible for his past death.
[01:51:14.880 --> 01:51:18.880]  Are either of you named as an heir?
[01:51:18.880 --> 01:51:19.880]  No.
[01:51:19.880 --> 01:51:29.160]  Well, wait a minute, wait a minute, if you're an heir, doesn't that imply that you are an
[01:51:29.160 --> 01:51:33.600]  heir to receive assets, not debt, or do you receive assets and debt?
[01:51:33.600 --> 01:51:34.600]  No.
[01:51:34.600 --> 01:51:41.920]  The reason I ask that is if you receive an asset, you also accrue any debt that's attached
[01:51:41.920 --> 01:51:42.920]  to the asset.
[01:51:42.920 --> 01:51:49.120]  But if you don't, that's why I ask, if you didn't receive an asset, you know, back in
[01:51:49.120 --> 01:51:59.000]  biblical times, the heirs, the sons, the sins of the father was visited on the sons, but
[01:51:59.000 --> 01:52:00.000]  not here.
[01:52:00.000 --> 01:52:01.000]  Okay.
[01:52:01.000 --> 01:52:08.960]  So Randy, are you saying that the only way that an heir could accrue a debt is if it
[01:52:08.960 --> 01:52:10.680]  was also attached to an asset?
[01:52:10.680 --> 01:52:11.680]  Yes.
[01:52:11.680 --> 01:52:21.600]  Say I inherit a car, and the car still has money owed on it, I still, I owe, you know,
[01:52:21.600 --> 01:52:26.680]  I accrue the, before I get the value of the car, I only get the unpaid value, or to get
[01:52:26.680 --> 01:52:32.000]  the paid value, and if I want to keep it, I have to pay it off, otherwise the original
[01:52:32.000 --> 01:52:34.480]  lien holder has a right to it.
[01:52:34.480 --> 01:52:41.440]  But if these folks are coming after you for something, for a contract that you didn't
[01:52:41.440 --> 01:52:45.640]  enter into, then that's fraud.
[01:52:45.640 --> 01:52:48.160]  Well, it's Citibank.
[01:52:48.160 --> 01:52:49.520]  It's fraud.
[01:52:49.520 --> 01:52:54.840]  Well, wait a minute, George, are you saying that it's just like a credit card debt or
[01:52:54.840 --> 01:52:57.360]  something that they're trying to pass on to you?
[01:52:57.360 --> 01:52:58.360]  Yeah.
[01:52:58.360 --> 01:53:03.120]  They told me since I picked up the phone and I answered the phone, I'm responsible for
[01:53:03.120 --> 01:53:04.120]  the debt now.
[01:53:04.120 --> 01:53:06.960]  And that is such BS.
[01:53:06.960 --> 01:53:12.200]  Call them back, and whoever answers the phone, ask for their name.
[01:53:12.200 --> 01:53:17.640]  Wow, Bubba, you answered the phone, now you're responsible for the debt.
[01:53:17.640 --> 01:53:20.240]  That is such, that is retardedness.
[01:53:20.240 --> 01:53:21.240]  I'm sorry.
[01:53:21.240 --> 01:53:27.280]  I mean, look, Randy just said, and this makes sense to me, if you inherit a car, like say
[01:53:27.280 --> 01:53:34.760]  the car's worth 20 grand, but there's still 10 grand owed on it for the car note.
[01:53:34.760 --> 01:53:40.640]  Okay, you inherit the car, but you also inherit the debt that's owed on the car.
[01:53:40.640 --> 01:53:44.240]  But they can't just pass on to you the debt.
[01:53:44.240 --> 01:53:49.560]  I mean, if somebody has a credit card debt of 10 grand or 20 grand or whatever, and they
[01:53:49.560 --> 01:53:53.920]  die, then it's ridiculous.
[01:53:53.920 --> 01:53:59.280]  It can't be possible for the credit card companies to go after the kids for the debt because
[01:53:59.280 --> 01:54:01.720]  the kids did not enter into the contract.
[01:54:01.720 --> 01:54:04.560]  There's no asset associated with it.
[01:54:04.560 --> 01:54:11.480]  And that is their downfall because these credit card companies agreed to make unsecured loans
[01:54:11.480 --> 01:54:15.280]  and too bad for them.
[01:54:15.280 --> 01:54:17.920]  Unsecured loans, it can't be passed down through probate.
[01:54:17.920 --> 01:54:21.960]  Wait a minute, George, how did they get there?
[01:54:21.960 --> 01:54:27.560]  I don't know, but the thing is, it's not just me, it's his brothers, it's his other kids
[01:54:27.560 --> 01:54:29.600]  that are getting this, they're getting calls from him.
[01:54:29.600 --> 01:54:33.680]  I got a call from my job and my boss told him, don't call here.
[01:54:33.680 --> 01:54:34.680]  And I-
[01:54:34.680 --> 01:54:35.960]  Whoa, wait a minute.
[01:54:35.960 --> 01:54:38.280]  They dunned you at your job?
[01:54:38.280 --> 01:54:39.280]  Yes.
[01:54:39.280 --> 01:54:43.600]  Send them a tort letter.
[01:54:43.600 --> 01:54:46.540]  Tort letters are wonderful.
[01:54:46.540 --> 01:54:56.300]  If you harm me before I can resort to the courts as a remedy, the courts say, you don't
[01:54:56.300 --> 01:55:00.740]  get to use me as a remedy of first resort.
[01:55:00.740 --> 01:55:03.520]  You get to use me as a remedy of last resort.
[01:55:03.520 --> 01:55:11.340]  I expect you to make due diligent effort to solve whatever controversy you have before
[01:55:11.340 --> 01:55:14.100]  you resort to the courts.
[01:55:14.100 --> 01:55:22.640]  And the primary way that's done is if I believe you harmed me, then I have a duty to let you
[01:55:22.640 --> 01:55:26.240]  know that you harmed me, because you may not know that.
[01:55:26.240 --> 01:55:31.000]  These people who called you and dunned you may not realize that they slandered you and
[01:55:31.000 --> 01:55:33.720]  embarrassed you before your employer.
[01:55:33.720 --> 01:55:39.040]  And now your employer thinks you're a deadbeat and he's not going to trust you driving out
[01:55:39.040 --> 01:55:42.680]  on the road in one of his expensive trucks, so you're history, bubba.
[01:55:42.680 --> 01:55:48.840]  Does this go under the bill of attaener?
[01:55:48.840 --> 01:55:49.840]  Bills of attaener?
[01:55:49.840 --> 01:55:50.840]  Wait, wait, wait, wait.
[01:55:50.840 --> 01:55:51.840]  Yes, they do.
[01:55:51.840 --> 01:55:52.840]  Wait a minute, George.
[01:55:52.840 --> 01:55:53.840]  Okay, let me get this straight.
[01:55:53.840 --> 01:55:54.840]  One of your parents passed away.
[01:55:54.840 --> 01:55:55.840]  My father-in-law.
[01:55:55.840 --> 01:55:56.840]  Okay, your father-in-law passed away, and now it's a credit card, right?
[01:55:56.840 --> 01:55:57.840]  Yes.
[01:55:57.840 --> 01:55:58.840]  It's me and my wife.
[01:55:58.840 --> 01:55:59.840]  They're trying to get one of us out of here.
[01:55:59.840 --> 01:56:00.840]  They're trying to get one of us out of here.
[01:56:00.840 --> 01:56:01.840]  They're trying to get one of us out of here.
[01:56:01.840 --> 01:56:02.840]  They're trying to get one of us out of here.
[01:56:02.840 --> 01:56:24.400]  Okay, did you or your wife sign a contract with a credit card company originally when
[01:56:24.400 --> 01:56:26.760]  your father-in-law took out the credit card?
[01:56:26.760 --> 01:56:27.760]  No.
[01:56:27.760 --> 01:56:31.800]  Okay, well then they can't do anything to you because you never signed a contract in
[01:56:31.800 --> 01:56:33.160]  the first place.
[01:56:33.160 --> 01:56:40.880]  Okay, one thing to understand, this is a free country, and the credit card company is free
[01:56:40.880 --> 01:56:46.200]  to try to snooker you into paying somebody else to be able to do what they want to.
[01:56:46.200 --> 01:56:47.800]  So they can do this song and dance.
[01:56:47.800 --> 01:56:51.200]  And you're free to see the living crap out of them for harassing you.
[01:56:51.200 --> 01:56:56.720]  Yes, so they can do this, but they can't harm you in the process.
[01:56:56.720 --> 01:57:02.200]  Like I could go to you and say, hey, my father-in-law passed away and he had this big credit card
[01:57:02.200 --> 01:57:03.200]  debt.
[01:57:03.200 --> 01:57:05.280]  George, I want you to pay it off.
[01:57:05.280 --> 01:57:09.160]  I feel like you have an obligation to pay it off.
[01:57:09.160 --> 01:57:12.800]  And I suspect I already know what you're going to say.
[01:57:12.800 --> 01:57:25.600]  But if I go to your employer and say, deadbeat George over there owes me to pay for my father-in-law's
[01:57:25.600 --> 01:57:28.200]  credit card, and he's not paying for it.
[01:57:28.200 --> 01:57:33.520]  Now your employer is going to have a negative feeling toward you.
[01:57:33.520 --> 01:57:38.900]  And when it comes time to promote someone to dispatcher and get them out of that truck
[01:57:38.900 --> 01:57:43.920]  off the road and give them better money, he's going to say, well, this guy's kind of somebody
[01:57:43.920 --> 01:57:47.800]  accused him of being a deadbeat and this guy over here, nobody ever accused him of being
[01:57:47.800 --> 01:57:48.800]  a deadbeat.
[01:57:48.800 --> 01:57:50.840]  So I'm going to take this guy over here.
[01:57:50.840 --> 01:57:53.300]  You've been slandered.
[01:57:53.300 --> 01:57:57.800]  That's what they don't get to do.
[01:57:57.800 --> 01:57:59.720]  Have you heard of anything like this?
[01:57:59.720 --> 01:58:02.040]  They're trying to get somebody to pay a debt.
[01:58:02.040 --> 01:58:03.040]  Oh, of course.
[01:58:03.040 --> 01:58:04.040]  They do this all the time.
[01:58:04.040 --> 01:58:07.440]  George, and I wanted to ask you another thing.
[01:58:07.440 --> 01:58:12.560]  Have you read through the probate documents, the court documents?
[01:58:12.560 --> 01:58:18.200]  Because the reason I'm asking is I want to know if anywhere in those documents signed
[01:58:18.200 --> 01:58:27.120]  by the judge or ordered by the judge, if the judge signed off on passing down the debt
[01:58:27.120 --> 01:58:34.720]  from your father-in-law to you or you and or your wife, and if that's the reason or
[01:58:34.720 --> 01:58:39.360]  the foundation of why the credit card companies are coming after you, because if the judge
[01:58:39.360 --> 01:58:41.520]  did that, then you can go after the judge.
[01:58:41.520 --> 01:58:43.480]  Well, they may have lied to the judge too.
[01:58:43.480 --> 01:58:44.480]  Yeah, but still.
[01:58:44.480 --> 01:58:48.400]  No, we haven't even filed any probate paperwork yet.
[01:58:48.400 --> 01:58:50.440]  He's only been dead for three weeks.
[01:58:50.440 --> 01:58:54.400]  Well, who's the executor of the estate?
[01:58:54.400 --> 01:58:55.400]  There is no executor.
[01:58:55.400 --> 01:58:58.400]  Well, did your father-in-law have a will?
[01:58:58.400 --> 01:59:01.000]  No, actually, he doesn't even have an estate.
[01:59:01.000 --> 01:59:02.560]  He didn't even have any assets.
[01:59:02.560 --> 01:59:04.160]  No, wait a minute.
[01:59:04.160 --> 01:59:08.240]  Everybody has an estate, even if it's just a pencil.
[01:59:08.240 --> 01:59:15.280]  The estate is whatever material possessions that the deceased person owned.
[01:59:15.280 --> 01:59:17.840]  There's always an estate.
[01:59:17.840 --> 01:59:19.680]  People have clothes.
[01:59:19.680 --> 01:59:23.520]  There's always something, and that's classified as the estate.
[01:59:23.520 --> 01:59:29.180]  If they didn't have a will and then they didn't designate an executor of their estate, then
[01:59:29.180 --> 01:59:31.400]  it's going to fall under state laws.
[01:59:31.400 --> 01:59:36.560]  I was just wanting to see if there was something that the judge had signed saying, okay, well,
[01:59:36.560 --> 01:59:42.240]  the credit card debt is passed on to you, because I have seen in family law cases and
[01:59:42.240 --> 01:59:50.720]  divorce cases and such where a judge will separate, you know, divvying up the assets
[01:59:50.720 --> 01:59:58.600]  and the debt and say, okay, well, the wife gets the house and the mortgage, even though
[01:59:58.600 --> 02:00:09.840]  the husband gets the house.